EVE General Discussion

Congrats, ladies and gentlemen, I think we have just seen a witch hunt put down, on both sides.

In the post-Teg EvE landscape, no less.

We are making progress.

\o/

Indeed.

And more importantly...

This is an activity that even newbies can get into.

I did it within a month. My only real goal when I started the game was to complete a heist. Imagine how hard it was to stay interested with no auxiliary goals to fulfill?

Corp aggression must remain.

Proper education about API usage, coupled with partnerships with EvE's vast 3rd party developers, can help teach how to do a background check.

As for gated newbie areas.....

While I agree that there are many things that can be taught....

Sometimes the hard lessons are the lessons you learn the most from.

Like flying an anti-tanked indy through Niarja during EU prime with all of your belongings you had accumulated in 5 months of playing.

Yep, that happened, lol.

But you learn from it.

I certainly did.

Well, for one thing why do they have to be Jove of all things

More seriously, I would increase new player retention by trying to funnel players into player corps and alliances as quickly as possible. Ideally, all new players should be in a corp by week 2 (aka end of trial). Player should be taught that there are good corps and bad corps and that they should be a careful shopper.

I would also put more emphasis on the dangerous outer reaches of space beyond the empires (or however you want to word it) but keep reinforcing that it is dangerous to go there alone. Reinforce the idea that these dangers can be overcome by teamwork and cooperation (which is true).

I prefer to help people by giving them the tools to help themselves, not by spoon feeding them.

That wasn't a witch hunt. It doesn't even remotely resemble one. Do you even know what that phrase means?

The problem is, we come back to the issue of giving an inch and taking a mile.

At some point, they have to be exposed to these things. And, unfortunately, these are hard lessons that people are only going to learn when it happens (or maybe not even after it happens, some people never learn). Scrapping features because they might scare off a new player is a bad idea because where do we draw the line?

The NPE should be about informing new players of the dangers of the universe, telling them that none of them cannot be overcome by teamwork and cooperation, and showing them where they can find corps to join.

I wouldn't even be opposed to allowing large alliances (# players > 500? we can talk about that) to run periodic in-game circulars that would be sent to trial accounts and / or accounts below a certain age via in-game mail.

But above all, new players need to understand this is a team effort, and that by going it alone they are handicapping themselves. And they should understand that their actions have consequences.

But beyond that, people need to be allowed to succeed or fail on their own merits.

Not all alliances are in those places. And, after the industry revamp, I have a feeling industry in nullsec is going to improve a lot. I mean, even now they could join a renter alliance that literally never PVPs and just rats and does industry and docks up when someone is in local.

My bigger idea is that they need to be funneled into places they will make friends, and fast. NPC corp chats are toxic to new players. I was one once.

As for risk aversion, CCP can't change that because it is a mentality. For every locked down, risk averse, corp there is one that is not (at least in my experience, after all isn't that why AWOXing is even possible).

There are huge industrial and PVE riches in nullsec and lo sec and wormholes too, PVP is just a risk.

And, something nobody else is mentioning, why not teach self defense?

Just because you want to be a miner doesn't mean you can't handle yourself in a sticky situation. Even if you are just trying to avoid PVP, there are lots of defensive tips that would allow them to survive in the less safe regions. These same tips will reduce their chances of being AWOXed, and will help new players in a war dec.

Instead of coddling them, embrace the danger and show them how to defend themselves. Remember that in the military even the Cook and Radio guy knows how to use a machine gun.

See, if we forget all about our earlier scuffle, we have a lot we agree on

+1 again

While I agree with what you say about new players needing to be exposed to these thing eventually I think the issue is when is that time. New players need a chance to learn things like fitting, basic isk making, and basic mechanics before they are thrown to the wolves. Also as I mentioned before I would rather see things like awoxing say, it makes eve eve. The thing is, if it stay at the cost of new players... There is no more eve.

Those basics aren't so basic. For example, what is basic isk making? If you ask someone in hi sec they'll say L4 missions. A nullsecer will tell you to run anoms or rat. Miners will tell you to mine, etc.

The one thing that was never uncertain to me in this game was how to make isk at the start. I actually started mining because it was so obvious.

We already have tutorials to teach many of thee things. It's not CCP's fault someone hit "skip". Actually, I skipped every tutorial in 2007 and turned out fine. The first thing I did was warp to a stargate and jump.

Remember there are people who think that people flying Hulks are "new players". How are we even defining a new player? Not all people learn at the same rate, but a non-time based measurement is unfair.

There are false-friends in the real world too, you learn from experience how to tell the difference.