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Dev blog: Principles of Industry in EVE Online

First post First post First post
Author
Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#141 - 2014-07-07 22:29:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Kynric
quygen wrote:
I can see how this works out for your avarage little inventor, they can benifit, but you are overlooking the big fishes. They won't start moving just becasue the sheer size of their operations. (hunderds of BPO's, POS's, Minerals, Tools, Indusrial ships, alt accounts)

You are trying to move a skyscraper, instead it will just fall down.


In this quote I see wisdom that perhaps was not intended. It seems to state that the act of moving limits the size of the operation as it affects large organizations more than smaller ones. I don't know if it is really true, but if it is perhaps herein lies a way to change the situation with corp/alliance/sov which until now have experienced advantages with extreme size rather than handicaps. The fix could be as simple as depleting resources in highly utilized areas (dynamically adjusting sec status, spawns, and resources) while reducing mobility (jump range and bridge distances.)
Krystyn
Serenity Rising LLC
Controlled Chaos
#142 - 2014-07-09 00:53:37 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Kind of reminds me exploration hype around Odyssey. Easier UI, better transparency about skills and effects... We got click fest + loot vomit + windshield wiper.


The UI is on SiSi right now, and we're actively soliciting feedback. Go test it, and tell us how you find it :)


Improving the UI is a good idea. Drastically changing how everything works all at once NOT A GOOD IDEA
High Sec Industry will die a horrible death along with subscription numbers shortly afterwards
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#143 - 2014-07-09 02:01:26 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
The more I read about changes to industry as a whole, the more I get the subtle feeling this is CCP Greyscale's apology patch for what he did to null sec space in the Dominion expansion so many years ago... What?


The way Dominion turned out is not something I am particularly happy with, no. Insofaras Crius relates to nullsec (which is much less than a lot of people are making out), it's not directly trying to correct issues introduced in Dominion, but rather moving us a step closer to rectifying some long-standing historical issues. It's worth reiterating though that Crius is not targeted at Nullsec and we're not expecting it to be a *significant* boost to Null industry. That will require more targeted intervention, and yes, it will involve a lot of careful balancing between null and empire to ensure we don't break anything.

All that said, if patches-as-apologies is the lens through which you're viewing things, just wait for my "apology" for Rev2 :P


" It's worth reiterating though that Crius is not targeted at Nullsec and we're not expecting it to be a *significant* boost to Null industry."

LOL...oh, my sides hurt. Please stop, I can't breathe.

Do you really think us that stupid...no wait, don't answer that.
Your actions speak so much louder than any Orwell-speak you type.
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#144 - 2014-07-09 03:44:03 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
The more I read about changes to industry as a whole, the more I get the subtle feeling this is CCP Greyscale's apology patch for what he did to null sec space in the Dominion expansion so many years ago... What?


The way Dominion turned out is not something I am particularly happy with, no. Insofaras Crius relates to nullsec (which is much less than a lot of people are making out), it's not directly trying to correct issues introduced in Dominion, but rather moving us a step closer to rectifying some long-standing historical issues. It's worth reiterating though that Crius is not targeted at Nullsec and we're not expecting it to be a *significant* boost to Null industry. That will require more targeted intervention, and yes, it will involve a lot of careful balancing between null and empire to ensure we don't break anything.

All that said, if patches-as-apologies is the lens through which you're viewing things, just wait for my "apology" for Rev2 :P


Considering that you seem to be breaking everything now, in the not targeted " long-standing historical issues" fix. I am curious as to what you consider a balanced hisec and nullsec industry.
By far it seems that this entire patch is aimed at making nullsec industry viable, while making hisec worse off then it currently is. I haven't seen anything to indicate that this feeling is wrong, either in dev blogs or in any of the changes that you have proposed.
The only thing that i can think of that affects hisec and not nullsec is the standings requirements changes for planting POS towers, which is a pretty questionable change in its own right.

What am i missing that this isnt a buff nullsec nerf hisec "expansion"

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Zeera Tomb-Raider
Vega Farscape
#145 - 2014-07-09 06:40:20 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
The more I read about changes to industry as a whole, the more I get the subtle feeling this is CCP Greyscale's apology patch for what he did to null sec space in the Dominion expansion so many years ago... What?


The way Dominion turned out is not something I am particularly happy with, no. Insofaras Crius relates to nullsec (which is much less than a lot of people are making out), it's not directly trying to correct issues introduced in Dominion, but rather moving us a step closer to rectifying some long-standing historical issues. It's worth reiterating though that Crius is not targeted at Nullsec and we're not expecting it to be a *significant* boost to Null industry. That will require more targeted intervention, and yes, it will involve a lot of careful balancing between null and empire to ensure we don't break anything.

All that said, if patches-as-apologies is the lens through which you're viewing things, just wait for my "apology" for Rev2 :P


Considering that you seem to be breaking everything now, in the not targeted " long-standing historical issues" fix. I am curious as to what you consider a balanced hisec and nullsec industry.
By far it seems that this entire patch is aimed at making nullsec industry viable, while making hisec worse off then it currently is. I haven't seen anything to indicate that this feeling is wrong, either in dev blogs or in any of the changes that you have proposed.
The only thing that i can think of that affects hisec and not nullsec is the standings requirements changes for planting POS towers, which is a pretty questionable change in its own right.

What am i missing that this isnt a buff nullsec nerf hisec "expansion"

Agre the POS standing remowal is just to boost CCPs incom on Plex and generate more war decs for the same purpos,they cold have lowered the standing rec a bit,but completly remowal is a bad ide,for just gaining a short time boost to incom for CCP.
Matilda Cecilia Fock
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#146 - 2014-07-12 17:42:14 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
The more I read about changes to industry as a whole, the more I get the subtle feeling this is CCP Greyscale's apology patch for what he did to null sec space in the Dominion expansion so many years ago... What?


The way Dominion turned out is not something I am particularly happy with, no. Insofaras Crius relates to nullsec (which is much less than a lot of people are making out), it's not directly trying to correct issues introduced in Dominion, but rather moving us a step closer to rectifying some long-standing historical issues. It's worth reiterating though that Crius is not targeted at Nullsec and we're not expecting it to be a *significant* boost to Null industry. That will require more targeted intervention, and yes, it will involve a lot of careful balancing between null and empire to ensure we don't break anything.

All that said, if patches-as-apologies is the lens through which you're viewing things, just wait for my "apology" for Rev2 :P


It is a well known fact that back in 1860, industry was far better and more developed in Colorado than in New York. Thus it makes all the sense in the world that 20% of New Eden's population gets better industry in the lawless wasteland of nullsec than what can aspire the 60% dwelling in the civilized core of New Eden. Roll

Not that it matters much now, but your company is leaving a few serious "Jesuschrist, they did what?" moments for anyone interested to study the history of EVE Online.

Q: Should we be worried? A: Nope. (...) Worry a lot if Fozzie, Masterplan, Rise, Veritas, Bettik, Ytterbium, Scarpia, Arrow, or even Greyscale leaves. Worry a little if Punkturis, karkur, SoniClover, Affinity, Goliath, or Xhagen leaves.

samualvimes
Brothers At Arms
#147 - 2014-07-12 18:09:12 UTC
Matilda Cecilia Fock wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
The more I read about changes to industry as a whole, the more I get the subtle feeling this is CCP Greyscale's apology patch for what he did to null sec space in the Dominion expansion so many years ago... What?


The way Dominion turned out is not something I am particularly happy with, no. Insofaras Crius relates to nullsec (which is much less than a lot of people are making out), it's not directly trying to correct issues introduced in Dominion, but rather moving us a step closer to rectifying some long-standing historical issues. It's worth reiterating though that Crius is not targeted at Nullsec and we're not expecting it to be a *significant* boost to Null industry. That will require more targeted intervention, and yes, it will involve a lot of careful balancing between null and empire to ensure we don't break anything.

All that said, if patches-as-apologies is the lens through which you're viewing things, just wait for my "apology" for Rev2 :P


It is a well known fact that back in 1860, industry was far better and more developed in Colorado than in New York. Thus it makes all the sense in the world that 20% of New Eden's population gets better industry in the lawless wasteland of nullsec than what can aspire the 60% dwelling in the civilized core of New Eden. Roll

Not that it matters much now, but your company is leaving a few serious "Jesuschrist, they did what?" moments for anyone interested to study the history of EVE Online.


meh out in the lawless land they own their own facilities they aren't renting them. On top of that there is less EHS issues. noone has to ispect the footstools every 6 months. I swear to god that happens in my company and it is ridiculous.

If you've never tried PvP in EvE it's quite possible you've missed out on one of the greatest rushes available in modern gaming.

Aischa Montagne
Blut-Klauen-Clan
#148 - 2014-07-13 12:47:01 UTC
Kusum Fawn wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
The more I read about changes to industry as a whole, the more I get the subtle feeling this is CCP Greyscale's apology patch for what he did to null sec space in the Dominion expansion so many years ago... What?


The way Dominion turned out is not something I am particularly happy with, no. Insofaras Crius relates to nullsec (which is much less than a lot of people are making out), it's not directly trying to correct issues introduced in Dominion, but rather moving us a step closer to rectifying some long-standing historical issues. It's worth reiterating though that Crius is not targeted at Nullsec and we're not expecting it to be a *significant* boost to Null industry. That will require more targeted intervention, and yes, it will involve a lot of careful balancing between null and empire to ensure we don't break anything.

All that said, if patches-as-apologies is the lens through which you're viewing things, just wait for my "apology" for Rev2 :P


Considering that you seem to be breaking everything now, in the not targeted " long-standing historical issues" fix. I am curious as to what you consider a balanced hisec and nullsec industry.
By far it seems that this entire patch is aimed at making nullsec industry viable, while making hisec worse off then it currently is. I haven't seen anything to indicate that this feeling is wrong, either in dev blogs or in any of the changes that you have proposed.
The only thing that i can think of that affects hisec and not nullsec is the standings requirements changes for planting POS towers, which is a pretty questionable change in its own right.

What am i missing that this isnt a buff nullsec nerf hisec "expansion"

I think you refer to the better Refining Modules which will be availible in 0.0, yes?
I think compared to the Roqual this is only a small ease to 0.0 indu Op, as we see today. But I have No Idea how 0.0 Indu Operation works. I just know they build mainly cap sized ships.

I have a good feeling about the upcomming patch. There is a break I admit this. Indu operation after the patch will differ from operation ways we do today. However it gives me and my people a lot of options to react on the market. And this I like a lot.
We are already working not to be only produceing one Product but a bigger viarity. In this we Profit from the changes made in reasearch area, beeing able to adjust my production in future in my core operation when marcet calls for it. I think we will be partly more flexibel cancerning where we produce something in a small scale.

In the beginning when I read the plenned chances, I was quite worried about the upcomming of true economic wars, with stragetic goals behind it, but currently I think that as long as the major Indu operation are worked by carebears this is thread is quite minimal, and we will see in future wars in the style we see todays High sec wars.

I also as a high sec Capsuler dont see currently 0.0 to Highsec or Low Sec to Highsec inbalance as my biggest problems. As long as I hear that fellow miners in 0.0 can mine 40 Million within an hour and only small risks involved the 0.0 is way off balanced to high in cometition then all changes introduced in the indu patch. And I still can do my business, so why care?

And Last but not least, most stuff is build in high. I would not forget that. And the reason is not the higher Profit. I think it is the low Risks involved. Still I have concerned for the future.

May biggest concern are gankers. I am not going to repeat what I try to explain in the Carebear vs Ganker Troll thread (which no one was interested in btw.) And it is for sure, not crying about gankers. But I think ganking is not well balanced gameplay today, and we lack instruments to react on gankers.
Careby
#149 - 2014-07-13 13:27:25 UTC
Aischa Montagne wrote:
...May biggest concern are gankers. I am not going to repeat what I try to explain in the Carebear vs Ganker Troll thread (which no one was interested in btw.) And it is for sure, not crying about gankers. But I think ganking is not well balanced gameplay today, and we lack instruments to react on gankers.

There is an old saying "Every cloud has a silver lining." Or as I like to think of it (Careby's Corollary), "Every silver lining is accompanied by a cloud." If every ganker in the game suddenly logged off, would industry benefit? Every time a ganker undocks, at least one fitted ship is destroyed. If he is successful, additional ships and cargo are lost. All this must be replaced. How much of the mining, building, hauling, and trading we all do is fueled by ganking? If you are an industrialist, gankers are your best friend.

Aischa Montagne
Blut-Klauen-Clan
#150 - 2014-07-13 20:48:50 UTC
Quote:
There is an old saying "Every cloud has a silver lining." Or as I like to think of it (Careby's Corollary), "Every silver lining is accompanied by a cloud." If every ganker in the game suddenly logged off, would industry benefit? Every time a ganker undocks, at least one fitted ship is destroyed. If he is successful, additional ships and cargo are lost. All this must be replaced. How much of the mining, building, hauling, and trading we all do is fueled by ganking? If you are an industrialist, gankers are your best friend.


You missed the message. I dont believe ganking disrupts global market stability. Something most people try to claim.
I think ganking is an issue on personal level. The hole execution is a single sided game. It is not realy a mouse and cat catching game. Which imho ganking should be.
However, I do not think this should be topic that hijacts within this newsletter. This topic is heated discussed already. And it should stay there. A lot of people fear to loose their pretty hobby, and the topic is not that game breaking that I believe we need a fix tomorow. However I whished bounty on a head and Kill rights could be merged. It would be cool to have a true market for bountyhunters. I think that would be fun for everyone exept the pussies who do ganking because they are no good in real pvp. But let them cry. Pirate
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#151 - 2014-07-13 21:22:25 UTC
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The Rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#152 - 2014-07-14 03:28:26 UTC
Aischa Montagne wrote:
Kusum Fawn wrote:

Considering that you seem to be breaking everything now, in the not targeted " long-standing historical issues" fix. I am curious as to what you consider a balanced hisec and nullsec industry.
By far it seems that this entire patch is aimed at making nullsec industry viable, while making hisec worse off then it currently is. I haven't seen anything to indicate that this feeling is wrong, either in dev blogs or in any of the changes that you have proposed.
The only thing that i can think of that affects hisec and not nullsec is the standings requirements changes for planting POS towers, which is a pretty questionable change in its own right.

What am i missing that this isnt a buff nullsec nerf hisec "expansion"

I think you refer to the better Refining Modules which will be availible in 0.0, yes?
I think compared to the Roqual this is only a small ease to 0.0 indu Op, as we see today. But I have No Idea how 0.0 Indu Operation works. I just know they build mainly cap sized ships.

I have a good feeling about the upcomming patch. There is a break I admit this. Indu operation after the patch will differ from operation ways we do today. However it gives me and my people a lot of options to react on the market. And this I like a lot.
We are already working not to be only produceing one Product but a bigger viarity. In this we Profit from the changes made in reasearch area, beeing able to adjust my production in future in my core operation when marcet calls for it. I think we will be partly more flexibel cancerning where we produce something in a small scale.

In the beginning when I read the plenned chances, I was quite worried about the upcomming of true economic wars, with stragetic goals behind it, but currently I think that as long as the major Indu operation are worked by carebears this is thread is quite minimal, and we will see in future wars in the style we see todays High sec wars.

I also as a high sec Capsuler dont see currently 0.0 to Highsec or Low Sec to Highsec inbalance as my biggest problems. As long as I hear that fellow miners in 0.0 can mine 40 Million within an hour and only small risks involved the 0.0 is way off balanced to high in cometition then all changes introduced in the indu patch. And I still can do my business, so why care?

And Last but not least, most stuff is build in high. I would not forget that. And the reason is not the higher Profit. I think it is the low Risks involved. Still I have concerned for the future.

May biggest concern are gankers. I am not going to repeat what I try to explain in the Carebear vs Ganker Troll thread (which no one was interested in btw.) And it is for sure, not crying about gankers. But I think ganking is not well balanced gameplay today, and we lack instruments to react on gankers.


I refer to module refining yes, but mostly to any change that affects hisec and not nullsec. Module Refining affects both.
To be honest, i find it a little frustrating and a bit confusing that because you have no idea how the industry changes will affect you and change pretty everything you dont understand about industry, to something that's even more complicated to understand, but are excited about it anyways.
The rest of your post is "special" and doesn't make any sense. Please repost it after a bit of editing so that you dont simply ramble on about things you dont understand and jump from subject to subject that are not intrinsic parts of this dev blog or relevant to the discussion.

"but currently I think that as long as the major Indu operation are worked by carebears this is thread is quite minimal,"

This is an interesting statement but it is interesting to note that "major indus operation carebears" are commenting in this and the other industry threads about how bad these changes are going to be, at least those that reside in hisec. Nullsec industry people are, understandably so, thrilled about most of the changes as it gives them a fairly major boost in manufacturing. A major infrastructure boost even before you begin to factor "Teams" into the equations. along with old and some newer resource boosts, this patch is simply a buff to nullsec.

However it does not address the majority of issues concerning actual manufacturing, research corporations, POS or general nullsec stagnation. Which is sad.

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#153 - 2014-07-14 06:31:04 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Guttripper wrote:
The more I read about changes to industry as a whole, the more I get the subtle feeling this is CCP Greyscale's apology patch for what he did to null sec space in the Dominion expansion so many years ago... What?


The way Dominion turned out is not something I am particularly happy with, no. Insofaras Crius relates to nullsec (which is much less than a lot of people are making out), it's not directly trying to correct issues introduced in Dominion, but rather moving us a step closer to rectifying some long-standing historical issues. It's worth reiterating though that Crius is not targeted at Nullsec and we're not expecting it to be a *significant* boost to Null industry. That will require more targeted intervention, and yes, it will involve a lot of careful balancing between null and empire to ensure we don't break anything.

All that said, if patches-as-apologies is the lens through which you're viewing things, just wait for my "apology" for Rev2 :P

CCP Greyscale -

A while back you were being interviewed (perhaps during an Alliance Tournament) and you mentioned that a long term goal for CCP as a whole was to have the game code "modulated" (or a similar term) where a section can be removed, worked upon, and then reinserted into the backbone code without breaking other aspects of the code. You mentioned that player owned stations is a difficult project to tackle because the coding is interwoven into so many aspects of the game that manipulating one part might just break multiple parts and thus overall that aspect basically idles.

To me, it seems industry as a whole is interwoven into many aspects of the game and in many ways, a backbone. A grandiose plan, but perhaps altering many, many aspects at once might not be the best idea. It is not as if this whole project needs to be done based upon a six month schedule that quickly approaches. Altering said schedule to six week patterns allows CCP as a whole to follow that modulated idea you mentioned long ago with this industry patch and see how each small aspect ebbs and flows into the game along with how the players accept and adjust accordingly.

With the change of fuel costs approaching, one step would be to implement a change to the refining or reprocessing (whatever it is to be called) and see if the players stay in high sec or push towards null sec to perform this task. Chart trends and adjust accordingly in the next patch six weeks later. At that time, alter how null sec stations have a greater bonus towards material and time research and manufacturing. And again, trend this pattern and parallel that to the adjustments to the refining / reprocessing changes. Six weeks later, more adjustments and perhaps introduce teams as a further bonus to various industry aspects and again trend, trend, and trend. If something breaks along the way, then it would be easier to backtrack. If something becomes too broken, then a reduction is possible without breaking the overall game.

The players would be more prone to accept small changes than to be "dumped" into one large one without a map or a paddle.

Unless there is some huge visionary picture I do not see, it does seem a bit odd (borderline pointless perhaps?) to change "everything" at once and hope the pieces (and players) fall into place. Especially now with CCP's changed patch scheduling, why race to rush for the grand prize when baby steps should accomplish the same goal eventually.

Just a thought.
Pap Uhotih
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#154 - 2014-07-14 12:19:36 UTC
Guttripper wrote:


A while back you were being interviewed (perhaps during an Alliance Tournament) and you mentioned that a long term goal for CCP as a whole was to have the game code "modulated" (or a similar term) where a section can be removed, worked upon, and then reinserted into the backbone code without breaking other aspects of the code. You mentioned that player owned stations is a difficult project to tackle because the coding is interwoven into so many aspects of the game that manipulating one part might just break multiple parts and thus overall that aspect basically idles.

To me, it seems industry as a whole is interwoven into many aspects of the game and in many ways, a backbone. A grandiose plan, but perhaps altering many, many aspects at once might not be the best idea. It is not as if this whole project needs to be done based upon a six month schedule that quickly approaches. Altering said schedule to six week patterns allows CCP as a whole to follow that modulated idea you mentioned long ago with this industry patch and see how each small aspect ebbs and flows into the game along with how the players accept and adjust accordingly.

With the change of fuel costs approaching, one step would be to implement a change to the refining or reprocessing (whatever it is to be called) and see if the players stay in high sec or push towards null sec to perform this task. Chart trends and adjust accordingly in the next patch six weeks later. At that time, alter how null sec stations have a greater bonus towards material and time research and manufacturing. And again, trend this pattern and parallel that to the adjustments to the refining / reprocessing changes. Six weeks later, more adjustments and perhaps introduce teams as a further bonus to various industry aspects and again trend, trend, and trend. If something breaks along the way, then it would be easier to backtrack. If something becomes too broken, then a reduction is possible without breaking the overall game.

The players would be more prone to accept small changes than to be "dumped" into one large one without a map or a paddle.

Unless there is some huge visionary picture I do not see, it does seem a bit odd (borderline pointless perhaps?) to change "everything" at once and hope the pieces (and players) fall into place. Especially now with CCP's changed patch scheduling, why race to rush for the grand prize when baby steps should accomplish the same goal eventually.

Just a thought.


By modularisation I think he would be refering to a software engineering approach that many developers think they use whilst in reality many bend the rules to the extent that the benefts become impossible to realise which is probably why it needs doing.
Essentially you make the inner workings of the program into components(modules) with specific purposes - you could think of them as being programs within a program, they are self contained units with a well defined interfaces - all they do is answer predefined questions with answers that are within predefined restrictions.
Typically it looks something like
UI
___ |
___ |
___ |
___ |
DB
Along each horizontal line sits components and each component can only have a dependancy on the interface of the component(s) in the row immediately below it and no dependancy on any row above it. Components on a row can have dependancies on their neighbours which is a necessary allowance rather than ideal. The verticle line is the exception as some utility type functions of the applicaiton will need to span the entire heirachy although it would still to some extent respect the horizontal divisions. No component lets any other component know how it works.
By doing that you end up with a program that (depending on technology) can do cool things like be patched whilst it is running although the main gain is through ease of use when bug fixing or expanding or prodding it with a stick in general. It can create horrendously inefficient software and is difficult to apply which is why it is not always strictly followed.
There is a lot more to it so that is an exceedingly rough guide that a school child could write better, there are some fantastically detailed books, papers and articles that I reccomend no one ever reads unless someone is at least threatening to kill you in an imaginative but slow way.
From what I have read of the problems with POS code it has dependancies in such a way as to more closely resemble the scribbling of a two year old on red bull with a large box of crayons.


The changes we get to see are different to modularisation with is a fairly abstract thing we shouldnt directly notice. We are seeing gameplay re-design and I agree with your sentiment that there probably would be less complaint if the same changes were introduced but over a longer period of time. It does seem to fail to take advantage of having more regular releases if as much as possible is still rammed into a single release as if there is no tomorrow.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#155 - 2014-07-14 20:45:42 UTC
Re: Pap Uhotih -

That was quite an informative post you replied with and I thank you for learning something new.
Abla Tive
#156 - 2014-10-07 23:50:02 UTC
Apologies for the revenant, but I think slowly.

An important word in the dev blog is "scale".

Alas, EvE industry is fabulously productive.

It is very easy to saturate markets and build up huge inventories.

In fact, because of existing inventory. some markets
can take *years* to work through a change.

CCP needs to be very careful about encouraging players to be large scale industrialists.

They won't all fit.

That is why I tend towards being an artisan industrialist. Making the stuff I use.
Not only are the materials better than free, but I have a guaranteed market.




Sindjin Hawke
Distant Light Syndicate
#157 - 2014-10-11 11:39:49 UTC
Abla Tive wrote:
Apologies for the revenant, but I think slowly.

An important word in the dev blog is "scale".

Alas, EvE industry is fabulously productive.

It is very easy to saturate markets and build up huge inventories.

In fact, because of existing inventory. some markets
can take *years* to work through a change.

CCP needs to be very careful about encouraging players to be large scale industrialists.

They won't all fit.

That is why I tend towards being an artisan industrialist. Making the stuff I use.
Not only are the materials better than free, but I have a guaranteed market.






That's what I mostly got from the devblog as well... Scale. Scale and macro dynamics.
The only industry I dabble in is reprocessing loot from missions, stockpiling the minerals aquired, and manufacturing ammo and drones for my mission running.

As a solo player, with limited game time I can only dabble in certain facets of the game and unfortunately don't have the time to master any especially one so involved as manufacturing.

I do like the new UI though and IMO was a good, concise change.
Saturday Beerun
Lost Ark Enterprises
#158 - 2014-12-17 16:01:38 UTC
Big changes,"scale".Bollox,thats what it all is.After a break over the summer I return to find manufacturing costs have gone through the roof.As a tiny scale industrialist playing for fun,industry has been wiped off the map.Theres not enough profit now.PI has been shafted as well.Corp customs stations mean enormous tax revenues in some areas.Pi has halted in many areas.And no I'm not upping sticks and shuffling to lo-sec to do pi.I just stop altogether.

I Want The Black Vindicator Back