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Can you please explain hauling to me?

Author
JonnyRandom
#1 - 2011-12-07 01:39:51 UTC
Well it seems pretty basic, you buy something for a low price somewhere, move to where it's a higher price and sell it there. But the problem is Jita. Let's take for example RF High Captain insignias. Looking at the market in Amarr and in Jita it looks like an obvious trade route, the tags are being sold in Amarr for a good amount more than in Jita. But then I took a closer look at the market history and not only is the amount of tags being moved in Amarr three to 6 times less than in Jita, but also most of this movement is happening on the buy orders. People are selling their tags to buy orders more often than people are buying tags from sell orders. So it doesn't make sense to haul tags from Jita to Amarr because the market seems so slow there.

So now I'm stumped, it seems like this is going to be the case with everything because of how huge Jita is compared to any other region markets.

And then there's the problem of common sense. Who would really buy tags in Amarr when they can go buy them for much cheaper in Jita?

I've never done anything market-y before, I'm just really bored of farming lvl4s and now that I have a good amount of money to spend I wanted to try something different.

Could someone give me a rope here?
Radelix Cisko
JUMP DRIVE ACTIVE
#2 - 2011-12-07 01:54:52 UTC
Short version since I am work and trying to get out on time.

Buy something somewhere cheap and sell it somewhere else for more than what you paid to buy it.

I will explain more later but that is the gist.

Despite my posting prowess I really am terrible at this game

Arctur Vallfar
Knights Adamant
#3 - 2011-12-07 01:59:29 UTC
One answer is simple. Convenience. Basic economics, really.

In my area an energy drink will cost $2.50 on a corner shop along a main roadway. At a 24/7 supermarket, however, the same energy drink is $1.75. Now, I can walk to the corner shop at any moment and be back. But I'd prefer a vehicle to get to the supermarket which is roughly an hour away on foot. Though I wouldn't make that sort of trip just to buy a single drink that I might need right away to wake myself up. It's sort of the same deal in EVE.

Someone selling Item A for 5,000,000isk in Amarr space that is valued at 2,000,000isk in Jita, as an example, knows that there are people who are willing to pay more for an item if it means they do not need to make a journey across the stars. Especially if they're only buying a handful of Item A. More conscious buyers who have time to burn and are tight or careful on money, especially if they're buying in bulk, would be much more likely to make the trip.

Distance could be replaced by location, as well. Such an agreed central trading hub like Jita would have immensely driven down prices purely out of competition compared to quieter markets elsewhere.

The question the seller must answer for him/herself is if it is worth it. As there would be far fewer people wanting to buy Item A in Amarr space than over at Jita. Fewer buyers could drive prices up to compensate, as they hope to take advantage of convenience.
DrRuby
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2011-12-07 02:01:45 UTC  |  Edited by: DrRuby
Generally speaking the "speed" of the market is completely irrelevant to haulers b/c they are purchasing sell orders and then submitting them to buy orders at a profit. Both are instant transactions and there is no "market volume" to wait for. (Watch out for margin trading scams when you do this)

If you own a freighter you can make upwards of 20M a trip doing this with mineral / ores

All profitable routes are cataloged at:
http://eve-central.com/tradetool/

Though I would avoid the top 10 as they are likely already being used or are in some way shape or form a scam.


Also many haulers simply pickup player contracts to move stuff around. Many PvPers for example cannot haul stuff through certain areas of space without an alt, so they will contract the stuff out for haulers to do for them. Many others are simply too lazy to bother with it. Expect to pay high collaterals and never accept a contract that leads into Low Sec / Null Sec.
Grozdan Boyadijev
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-12-07 02:36:29 UTC
There are also corporations that provide hauling services (eg. Red Frog) that simply let haulers join and fulfill corp contracts. In general, the biggest hauling operations are nullsec logistics, as most 0.0 alliances cannot manufacture everything they use in their own space, and must JF it out from lowsec. Large quantities of goods flow from Jita to regional staging systems, and from there out into nullsec.

If you're willing to take some huge risks for not a huge amount of reward, you could try supplying lowsec or NPC 0.0 stations with goods, but that usually isn't advisable unless you're a member of the local corp/alliance in charge.
Ave Volta
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-12-07 04:15:38 UTC
Grozdan Boyadijev wrote:
If you're willing to take some huge risks for not a huge amount of reward, you could try supplying lowsec or NPC 0.0 stations with goods, but that usually isn't advisable unless you're a member of the local corp/alliance in charge.


Our corp begs to differ Smile

Black Frog Logistics provides timely and secure null / low sec freight services with healthy rewards for our pilots.

Black Frog Logistics - Lowsec/Nullsec Logistics Services. Join ingame channel 'Black Frog' for more info.

Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-12-07 08:30:05 UTC
JonnyRandom wrote:
Well it seems pretty basic, you buy something for a low price somewhere, move to where it's a higher price and sell it there. But the problem is Jita. Let's take for example RF High Captain insignias. Looking at the market in Amarr and in Jita it looks like an obvious trade route, the tags are being sold in Amarr for a good amount more than in Jita. But then I took a closer look at the market history and not only is the amount of tags being moved in Amarr three to 6 times less than in Jita, but also most of this movement is happening on the buy orders. People are selling their tags to buy orders more often than people are buying tags from sell orders. So it doesn't make sense to haul tags from Jita to Amarr because the market seems so slow there.

So now I'm stumped, it seems like this is going to be the case with everything because of how huge Jita is compared to any other region markets.

And then there's the problem of common sense. Who would really buy tags in Amarr when they can go buy them for much cheaper in Jita?

I've never done anything market-y before, I'm just really bored of farming lvl4s and now that I have a good amount of money to spend I wanted to try something different.

Could someone give me a rope here?

Maybe haul tags from Amarr to Jita instead?

Or haul them from Jita to a popular mission system in Amarr space?
Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2011-12-07 09:21:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Callduron
As long as you're the cheapest Sell Order it doesn't really matter that volume is a little slow. So long as there are any people buying from Sell Orders you get the business. So don't compare Amarr volume with Jita volume, compare it with the amount of tags you want to sell. If Amarr sells about 10/week you won't want to buy 500 tags if you want to quickly resell.

Try spreading yourself across a range of different tags rather than only looking at one. A maxxed out trader can put up over 300 orders for 3 months each. So if you want to trade 500 tags per week and reckon it's hard to sell more than 10 of a particular type trade in 50 different types.

Keep an eye on your orders to make sure you're the cheapest. Ideally get yourself able to do this while missioning using the Daytrading skill. Don't obsess though, a lot of traders burn out after spending hours 0.01 isking. Once every couple of days is enough (I check much less often but that's rather lazy).

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.

Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-12-07 14:43:40 UTC
I station stock. Which pretty much means: Buy stuff that missioneers use from somewhere cheap (Jita for me, normally), and haul it over to a station they frequent (15+ jumps for me).

My margin runs from 8% up to 80%. All depends on the initial price.

My money comes from people being lazy. I'm not the cheapest in the region, just the station. But you can buy everything you want in that station, for a reasonable price, rather than having to jump all round the region to pick stuff up. And would you want to jump all the way to Jita, just to save a hundred thousand isk?

so cluster your orders (provide all the armour mods, for example). and be willing to make a tiny profit on a few items, while you make a bigger profit on the others. It's all about managing their opportunity costs.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#10 - 2011-12-07 16:00:03 UTC
Arctur Vallfar wrote:
One answer is simple. Convenience. Basic economics, really.


Which is one of the great strengths of the EVE economy compared to a lot of other MMOs. No magic mailboxes here to deliver items, no NPC deliveries, some poor sod had to have moved the item. Which boils down to my favorite phrase for the budding haulers:

Goods acquire value as they move closer to the buyer.
Shar Tegral
#11 - 2011-12-07 16:51:46 UTC
Arctur Vallfar wrote:
One answer is simple. Convenience. Basic economics, really.

Details Snipped

A most excellent explanation.

I should point out that this is properly called "Lazy Ass Factor".
Jenn Makanen
Doomheim
#12 - 2011-12-07 16:57:10 UTC
Shar Tegral wrote:
Arctur Vallfar wrote:
One answer is simple. Convenience. Basic economics, really.

Details Snipped

A most excellent explanation.

I should point out that this is properly called "Lazy Ass Factor".



Well... Blink

Sometimes it's laziness.
Sometimes it's people understanding opportunity costs. 'I could spend half an hour going to Jita and back (with potential lolz gank risk), or I could grind out a single level 4. I'll just spend a couple of million more.'


Probably laziness though.