Warfare & Tactics

Seems to me the FW guys have way more fun in their battles to take systems then the nullsec players do.

With this in mind would it not be a good idea to have a similar capture mechanism for nullsec war - where different sized plexes have to be fought over before any big battle for the I-Hub?

It would be a lot harder for these giant coalitions to hold on to territory if any random small band of pilots can start contesting sites in a system - with empires spread over a vast area they would find it harder to hold onto all their sov because their renters would have to help defend systems instead of just printing isk for their masters.

Even if they managed to blob the battles for the i-hubs against smaller opponents just the effort needed to constantly defensive plex could break up these empires into smaller alliances willing to defend their turf on a regular basis as would be needed.

I don't know enough about nullsec to know if this would actually be viable but even renters would probably enjoy skirmishing in t1 frigs and cruisers in their home systems and it might actually draw more of the 'bears' into enjoyable PvP instead of just the occasional giant fleet where they just press f1 all night.

The control part is partly due to the fact that there's content for solo / small gangs that impacts system control. If you're not on the ball, all of the sudden you're looking at huge hits to your system control.

Implementing small scale objectives in nullsec, that can't be supercap blapped / N+1 blobbed to cause an instant system flip is an interesting problem, but hell if I know how to implement it. Gated complexes make sense for FW, given the whole empire / militia NPC part, but I doubt it does the same for nullsec.

Problems of scale are solved with distributed solutions.

Time Dilation is what I've heard most of my null-bros complain about the most. Big fights are cool up until it takes an hour to leave system or 5 minutes to recall drones.

Time Dilation is a response to concentration of force. Faction War Low has rules that allow much smaller amounts of player damage to make a system change hands. Timers that require all hands on deck at once are exchanged for multiple venues of smaller victories with the possibility of a larger fight occurring to put a small tower into hull.

Change the goalposts in null to facilitate gameplay that Tranquility can handle and I bet you'll see more people enjoying themselves.

the very first line is sheer opinion, and not a well researched one at that.

First of all, FW 'war' is a matter of PvE. It is accomplished by PvE, and often to the exclusion of PvP judging by the number of stabbed plex runners.

There is nothing in FW that even comes close to the scale of combat in null sec. Even meeting engagements we find ourselves in run over a hundred people shooting at each other.
We take small, new FC, or cheap T1 frig fleets to FW space mostly to be disappointed until we tangle with pirate players. You can spend days in FW space and not see anything but small, kitchen sink fleets farting around. When just my small alliance has a 'strat op', we count on at least 50 in fleet...every time.

The two are completely different types of content, and whichever you think is better is purely a matter of opinion. Judging by the fact that every single battle big enough to make headlines outside of Eve has come from Sov Null wars and certainly not FW, the popularity of sov null wars dwarfs FW. Clearly more people are enjoying sov null warfare than FW plexing for a few LP points.

Sov null has the resources to support empires that rival the power of any NPC empire in the game.

Remember, FW is where sov alliances go when they lose their sov, not really the other way 'round.

Tell me about all these ongoing sov wars.

FW space has regularly dwarfed sov-null in terms of ships destroyed and PvP activity over the last couple years. Look at your map ships destroyed on any given day, and 95% of the time the biggest big red blobs are in FW space. The reason Sov Null battles make headlines is just the ships involved (Read: Titans), not the leet-pvp activity.

Just look at Huola over the last few days, and tell me more about how FW is all about PvE.\


Edit: To be more constructive, there are ways to combine the best of both worlds. Null fights end up in massive BS fleets and capital escalations mostly because the alliances/coalitions can support that with their income and SRP programs (notably, the vast majority of FW groups pvp out of our own pockets, which is why you won't see us flying the blingy stuff all the time).

I'm certain that there are ways to preserve the "epicness" of large scale high-end fleet fights in null while also designing some sort of de-centralized sov system more akin to the FW methods, something that requires regular occupancy to hold a tight grip on. Of course, this may require coalitions to adjust their income sources back to traditional methods (moon goo, high end sites, etc) and away from "renter" space, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. And you'd still have opportunities for huge fights over the r64s.

spoken like a true "PVP Elite" loooooooooooool.

Regardless that i find the idea itself a verry bad idea , FW is not nullsov and vice versa as such what works in playground 1 will not work in playground 2 as it has different playtoys , what i find the most fun of this type of thread and what we'll see mostly here is how two sides like to fall back on generalised statements.Mostly being that nullbears don't pvp and if they do can't do **** without a blob and that the only thing fw pilots can do is fly around in a kessie preferably stabbed to the roof .

At times i do wonder how many people in eve actually do change their playground often enough to have experienced more then 'their side' of the game.

So far I have experienced all parts of the game and came to enjoy NPC 00 space and roaming sov 00 the most. FW combat is mostly limited by the fact that one party has a massive advantage by being able to set the rules of engagement. In 00sec you will also see much less link alts being used (besides in Curse).
Transferring the FW system to 00sec therefor wouldnt work because of the massive advantage you gain by being in the plex first.

This would not be implemented solely because it would shake up the current nullsec power blocs too much. They would actually have to get out there and work to keep their space, and hence would not be able to a) rent space effectively, b) rat effectively, c) mine in peace, and d) set the engagements so it works in their favor. To be honest I can't blame them, the profits out in null really aren't all they are hyped up to believe. Adding such a mechanic would skew the risk versus reward balance to: too much risk for not that much reward.