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Which frigate completely wins out against a Slicer?
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Flyinghotpocket
Small Focused Memes
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#21 - 2014-06-27 05:03:31 UTC
slicers became obsolete when loki links where released

Amarr Militia Representative - A jar of nitro
Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
#22 - 2014-06-27 15:40:53 UTC
Some people fit Slicers for close range / active rep engagement - but for the most part they are one trick ponies and will try to orbit or keep at range @20km and they deal a lot of DPS. But usually if they are fit like this they are very soft, so your best bet is to either reduce their range (TD optimal range), Slingshot them and melt them or just outrun them and close / out dps at range.
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-06-30 12:19:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
Sean Parisi wrote:
Some people fit Slicers for close range / active rep engagement - but for the most part they are one trick ponies and will try to orbit or keep at range @20km and they deal a lot of DPS. But usually if they are fit like this they are very soft, so your best bet is to either reduce their range (TD optimal range), Slingshot them and melt them or just outrun them and close / out dps at range.

The brawling slicer is a web away from being really strong.

I have used brawling slicers to attack ships that will sit on the warp in to a FW plex hoping to scram me. I name my ship something that alludes to scorch being OP to not give any hints that I'm looking for close range making it a pretty easy bait. The slicer can actually get a really strong tank and dps out of those 5 lows although your range control leaves something to be desired. You're still reasonably fast for an AB frigate even plated but you'll still be no match for webs.

Locus rigs and your hull bonuses allows you to reach out to long point range so as long as you are not being kited by a linked long point you should be OK. A ship with skirmish links and long point is probably MWD fit so you just sit on the warp in for a plex and let him come to you if he wants and if you have him scrammed you are probably faster with your AB.

Scram fit opponents will often be surprised by your 200 dps with multifrequency and your tracking isn't that bad because you are not taking penalties for scorch. You will be using the aggressive approach of the opposing scram ship to your advantage in the opening stages and often by the time people figure out what's going on you can finish them before they get away. You will at least hold your own on damage against most things within scram range and your 5 lows can quickly tip the tanking battle your way. At the same time you have the ability to at least attempt to drive off anything that does get outside your scram, with optimal for scorch ~22 km you stand a good chance of breaking point range if you need to. Carry radio as well, it can save you if scorch is in range but isn't hitting as most of the stuff you might use it against is pretty thin.

The trick to winning with this fit is the pre-fight. You need someone convinced they can catch your kitey paper ship, then abuse that expectation to secure the win before your opponent can react. As I said though a 2/3/5 slicer instead of 3/2/5 would be really really strong in this role, probably op. Your range dictation being a mind game instead of a web is pretty sketchy and so this fit will basically get fried against anyone who knows they are fighting it. If you often fly in the same areas and are going to use a brawl slicer I suggest sometimes using a kitey slicer as well and give all your slicers the same name so anyone who gets to know you will have to roll the dice every time they go for a fight.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
JAF Anders
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#24 - 2014-06-30 16:21:14 UTC
You might be able to fit AB/web and hope they don't realize they can warp off / choose not to. I don't typically rely on my opponent executing poorly, but if you're going to be throwing a curveball anyway, this just might fit.

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-06-30 16:27:32 UTC
JAF Anders wrote:
You might be able to fit AB/web and hope they don't realize they can warp off / choose not to. I don't typically rely on my opponent executing poorly, but if you're going to be throwing a curveball anyway, this just might fit.
Lol My kind of curveball.

I might add that AB/web makes conflag perfectly viable, you'll track anything. And easily get well over 250 dps heated, to shorten the window for the opponent to GTFO in time.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Valleria Darkmoon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2014-06-30 20:41:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Valleria Darkmoon
JAF Anders wrote:
You might be able to fit AB/web and hope they don't realize they can warp off / choose not to. I don't typically rely on my opponent executing poorly, but if you're going to be throwing a curveball anyway, this just might fit.

You're not really relying on your opponent to execute poorly so much as you want him to execute well against a ship he isn't actually fighting. The fact that the vast majority of slicers are a paper kite makes that work easier.

What I worry about with web instead of scram is this: Anything with an MWD and neut(s). I fought a Rifter and Tristan in a brawl fit slicer a few days ago, the Rifter was AB, scram, TD and the Tristan was MWD fit with a full rack of neuts for highs. The Rifter was sitting in the plex with the Tristan warping in once the fight started. Presumably the Rifter was there sitting at zero in order to prevent me from kiting and use the TD to keep himself alive at the outset while he gets in close. I landed and he burned in close only to promptly have his face melted off due to me still being mobile and my tracking not being nerfed by scorch. He tried to get in very close like he should against a kite slicer but because our speeds were comparable I was able to hold range moving away and keep him between 2-3 km. At that range the optimal penalty from his TD was worthless and tracking speed script was not enough since he is unbonused for TDs and I'm not using low tracking ammo nor is he able to orbit me. With the Tristan scrammed I had the speed advantage so I was able to pull out to the edge of scram range and finish him from there before the neuts cost me the fight, had I only webbed him he would have been slightly faster than me with the MWD on meaning I couldn't have pulled away and the neuts would have killed me. He was cap injected as well so he could have pulled it off for sure. There is, of course, also the possibility your opponent will realize they can warp and react quickly, so if I was going to go for the web I'd probably use conflag.

Now this won't happen every time for sure but without the ability to turn off MWDs there are a lot of fits that can break free if they have one fitted and that can be pretty bad for you depending on what it is. The Daredevil can pull off the web but no point thing because its dps is so high and if you are MWDing while 90% webbed you're practically just giving yourself a sig bloom and draining your cap for no reason, especially if he's using two webs. The slicer just doesn't have that going for it. The low number of mid slots on a lot of Amarr ships is what keeps them from being total beasts in a lot of cases, the slicer definitely falls into that category.

Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification.
Artuard Envien
Space-Brewery-Association
#27 - 2014-07-02 09:04:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Artuard Envien
If I see a hostile slicer on d-scan I :


1) Put on a white scarf


2) undock my own slicer.




Best dogfights ever.
Maeltstome
Ten Thousand Days
#28 - 2014-07-03 12:37:55 UTC
Sentinel.
Vyktor Abyss
Abyss Research
#29 - 2014-07-06 21:19:39 UTC
Maeltstome wrote:
Sentinel.


Sentinal
JAF Anders
Jerkasaurus Wrecks Inc.
Sedition.
#30 - 2014-07-07 19:10:37 UTC
Valleria Darkmoon wrote:
JAF Anders wrote:
You might be able to fit AB/web and hope they don't realize they can warp off / choose not to. I don't typically rely on my opponent executing poorly, but if you're going to be throwing a curveball anyway, this just might fit.

You're not really relying on your opponent to execute poorly so much as you want him to execute well against a ship he isn't actually fighting. The fact that the vast majority of slicers are a paper kite makes that work easier.

What I worry about with web instead of scram is this: Anything with an MWD and neut(s).


If your opponent is not pointed and does not warp out of a losing fight, he has executed poorly. MWD and neuts seem an overcomplication compared to this. Occam's Razor would encourage me to limit my reasoning to the first point.[1]

I also consider it poor execution of the opponent to not react to the situation once it has been ascertained, and that the appropriate use of inverted stereotypes encourages initial pilot missteps.

Your commentary on range control was a good read. It should be no surprise to you, then, that I would encourage a normalization of sorts when discussing the relative velocities of ships, especially within propulsion jamming range, be it stasis webification or microwarpdrive deactivation. Base velocities can be described in relative fashion, making the appropriate handicap for skills, implants, and warfare links. Once done, the effect of propulsion modules and their inhibition can be more simply analyzed.

For example, I know that an Atron has a higher base velocity than the Incursus. With all else held constant [2], I can say that I'll dictate range, since we'll both be fitting the same modules in our 3 mid-slots. Any changes can then be described in relative terms and the transfer of range control that follows. With that said, the reasoning behind using the web instead of the scram is entirely dependent on my intended target. Using a web allows the Slicer to dictate range against most brawlers (and even the ones it loses to, it only loses slowly). Serious brawlers [3] will close the gap very quickly, likely winning the DPS race. I myself put little faith in catching an MWD'ing target with a Scrambler "on the warp-in" due to the reliance on server ticks, invulnerability, module latency, and the fact that I already get away more often than I should.

[1] Pun not initially intended, but immediately appreciated
[2] Or ceteris paribus, because really, throwing in a dead language makes you sound smarter
[3] AB/Scram/Web, "hard tackle", not AB/Scram/CapBooster

The pursuit of excellence and stabbed plexing alts.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#31 - 2014-07-10 18:14:31 UTC
Dragoon.

Three full flights of damage/durability & speed bonused drones + impressive neuting ability out to scram range = potent frigate killer. You should be able to kill or drive off most frigates and neut whatever you can't enough to get away yourself.

Give it a try....

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#32 - 2014-07-11 17:35:20 UTC
Ive had good success with MASB lml breacher. Double em rigs and dmg rig. Fit is:

3 LML
langour drive web (cpu restriction)
MASB
T2 longpoint
limited 1mn mwd
nano
iffa dcu
meta4 pdu (for pg plus u gain cap/shield)

x2 em rig
1 calef rig

1% pg implant (personal preference. You could drop pdu for MAPC, but you lose out on pdu bonus.

Dps is lowish at ~100, but its a survivor and cap life is great. Plus its only 100ms slower than slicer. easy to slingshot slicers and you dont have a gaping em hole. Grab em with web, and just tank em till theyre dead. Killed a brawly crusader with that fit too.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
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