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Lets talk about drones (again)
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Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns
#21 - 2014-07-10 10:40:10 UTC
Christopher Tsutola wrote:
Maybe a better fix then removing the assign function would be to make it so carriers can't assign fighters withing a set distance from a pos. taking away the assign from fighters would basically just make them x-large drones and remove a uniqueness that comes with carriers


I haveto admit I also kind of like the unique feature of fighters assgned. your suggestion would also be fair. What would be a fair range? 5km, 50km?

Problmen still remains, that even if you do this from station, this kills solo / supersmall gang alltogether eventually. As while solo / supersmall gang, there is no way you are able to attack a carrier on pos / in undock with that kind of abilities to destroy stuff.

It's a difficult line to draw. I agree on that.
Aram Kachaturian
Aram Pleasure Hub Holding
#22 - 2014-07-10 16:59:09 UTC
Experienced player, solid ideas.

+ 1

Servant of the Secret League, Wielder of the Monocle Clubhouse Flame.
Christopher Tsutola
State Navy
#23 - 2014-07-10 17:14:22 UTC
Ugly Eric wrote:


I haveto admit I also kind of like the unique feature of fighters assigned. your suggestion would also be fair. What would be a fair range? 5km, 50km?

Problmen still remains, that even if you do this from station, this kills solo / supersmall gang alltogether eventually. As while solo / supersmall gang, there is no way you are able to attack a carrier on pos / in undock with that kind of abilities to destroy stuff.

It's a difficult line to draw. I agree on that.



well it would have to be more then 5 as that would still be within the shield probably something like 5-10 past the minimal anchor range of the towers gun turrets.

as for the problem with it being done on stations this would just wind up being another crappy part of station games that comes with K-Space fights. this may make it harder for the solo/small gangs but there are already a lot of things that you can't win against in a small gang. Like we can't say small gangs can't defend against supers so PL is no longer aloud to drop them onto small gangs.

also remember that when fighters are assigned that the carrier pilot still has to deal with weapon timers that should give plenty of time for an organised gang to bump it off station.

another idea would be that you can't enter a shield with a weapons timer (something i feel should be implemented regardless) however i'm not sure if this would be a good fix since i haven't been involved in POS fights for about two years so idk how this would affect that
Christopher Tsutola
State Navy
#24 - 2014-07-12 01:36:44 UTC
ok so it would seem that this is not only a problem but a lot of fun we just got into a fight in WH where a carrier was using drone assist from an offline small tower after being engaged it began the online processes giving both sides a timer although we didn't manage to kill the carrier and it survived on high hull the frantic race to get more DPS into the hole and the last 60sec of "just a little bit moe and we got it" was one of the most enjoyable and exciting moments i'v had in eve

(this one experience however doesn't mean this is still not an issue just putting in another side of how this does provide good gameplay)
O'nira
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-07-14 01:03:08 UTC
The really broken part of it is that fighters are essentially supers, you can't warp scram them to stop them from teleporting back to their master.

funfunfun
Christopher Tsutola
State Navy
#26 - 2014-07-14 07:23:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Christopher Tsutola
O'nira wrote:
The really broken part of it is that fighters are essentially supers, you can't warp scram them to stop them from teleporting back to their master.

funfunfun



yes you can even rats are able to keep them from warping out we just lost two of ours to sleeps two days ago because of this how ever it was only webbed not scrammed witch is odd
Kukihara Akachi
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-07-14 14:29:28 UTC
This is pretty mucked up. Please fix, CCP.
Ocih
Space Mermaids
#28 - 2014-07-14 14:43:45 UTC
The missing element is the precious noob.

Beam fit Coercer fleets could melt Fighters and Bombers using tradition high sec gank tactics at a replacement cost of about 5% of the fighter or the bomber. Establishing and funding such a doctrine would be peanuts. Finding the new people/ spare alts wouldn't be so easy.

I'm quite sure if a Super Carrier pilot or 10 lost 400 mill to a billion in fighters/ Bombers to garbage fleets a few times and was forced to draw out logi to replace them, they wouldn't be as eager to throw them away. It's a theory craft fleet though, one based on the player debt EVE has right now.
Ugly Eric
Fistful of Finns
#29 - 2014-07-14 14:54:03 UTC
Christopher Tsutola wrote:
ok so it would seem that this is not only a problem but a lot of fun we just got into a fight in WH where a carrier was using drone assist from an offline small tower after being engaged it began the online processes giving both sides a timer although we didn't manage to kill the carrier and it survived on high hull the frantic race to get more DPS into the hole and the last 60sec of "just a little bit moe and we got it" was one of the most enjoyable and exciting moments i'v had in eve

(this one experience however doesn't mean this is still not an issue just putting in another side of how this does provide good gameplay)


As said, idiotism is always counterable :)



Christopher Tsutola wrote:
yes you can even rats are able to keep them from warping out we just lost two of ours to sleeps two days ago because of this how ever it was only webbed not scrammed witch is odd


Dunno about sleeper abilities, but warp scrambling / disrupting does not effect fighters. If they are set to attack & follow or if the host warps off, the fighters will follow, no matter how many points you got on them.

If the carrier stays on grid, you can web the drones and thus kill them effectively BEFORE they make it back to the host ship, if they are pulled back.

Christopher Tsutola wrote:
well it would have to be more then 5 as that would still be within the shield probably something like 5-10 past the minimal anchor range of the towers gun turrets.

as for the problem with it being done on stations this would just wind up being another crappy part of station games that comes with K-Space fights. this may make it harder for the solo/small gangs but there are already a lot of things that you can't win against in a small gang. Like we can't say small gangs can't defend against supers so PL is no longer aloud to drop them onto small gangs.

also remember that when fighters are assigned that the carrier pilot still has to deal with weapon timers that should give plenty of time for an organised gang to bump it off station.

another idea would be that you can't enter a shield with a weapons timer (something i feel should be implemented regardless) however i'm not sure if this would be a good fix since i haven't been involved in POS fights for about two years so idk how this would affect that


I agree that there is lot you cannot do with solo / supersmall gang. However I dont agree that more such limitations should be added.

I like the two ideas of a) not being able to assign fighter from less than 5-10km from forcefield and b) not being able to enter forcefield with weaponstimer.

However the latter has other problems, that im not quite sure I think would be a good thing to the game.

So lets focus a bit on the idea of not being able to assign from pos. What if the same idea would aply to station. Like you cant activate a smartbomb within 5km of station / gate etc. So if the same would aply to assigning fighters.
This would create few problems again, but the idea has a lot of promise imo. I was for a second concidering even so radical idea, that you would not be able to aggress with drones at the same rules, but it wont work, as then you would haveto limit it to regulrar weaponry also.

So after a wall of text and good ole fashion thinking progress I will edit the OP to:
- Not being able to assign fighters within 5000m of forcefield, station, stargate or any other structure that limits smartbombs aswell. You could use your own fighters personally as normal, but cannot assign them during the previous conditions are met.
Apelacja
Sad Najwyzszy
#30 - 2014-07-14 20:54:00 UTC

- Not being able to assign fighters within 5000m of forcefield, station, stargate or any other structure that limits smartbombs aswell. You could use your own fighters personally as normal, but cannot assign them during the previous conditions are met.

+1
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