Player Features and Ideas Discussion

It does not matter if the penalty has meaning for me. The penalties do not matter to my opponent, that is the problem. I can inflict little to no damage to my enemies. They don't care about anything they have in space. Even if destroyed, they come right back to sit on the same gate, or go back to harassing in exactly the same way. You see them in any mission hub--- guys flying around stealing mission items and generally being a nuisance. It's not a problem in and of itself, except that there is no way to solve the problem they represent, no matter what you do they will come right back and do more of the same. It's worse in Low Sec... unless you want to play PvP, baiting and whatnot, you just get to run as soon as you aren't the only one in local. If your goal is simple mission running, exploration, etc... There is no way to secure your playstyle. You *must* play the PvP game for as long and whenever a PvP pilot wants too.

It's not a sandbox for anyone not interested in hunting down others for direct space combat.

Except that Chess isn't supposed to be a Sandbox.

EVE is a sandbox. Or at least it's supposed to be. People who enjoy all sorts of playstyles are drawn in, and only those that enjoy direct space combat get any sort of real support. Most of the other play styles are poorly supported and heavily disadvantaged in competing with aggressive combat pilots.

Bolded the crux of the matter. you want to stop people from playing the way they want to.

Show me ANY aspect of EVE's flying in space game where the enemy can't just come back again with the same ships and do it again. In null sec and faction warfare, alliances and militias are flying cheap tech1 cruisers exactly for that reason. Red Vs Blue is doing the same thing in High Sec.

It's a video game, people are supposed to keep playing. Using cheap combat ships is a method of sustainable game play. it' doesn't matter that you don't want to pvp either, EVE features universal non-consensual pvp.

As regards fighting back though, if the same characters " come right back to sit on the same gate", what then is to stop you from killing them as they probably are criminals now?



it's worse than I thought. The above quote demonstrates that either you don't know what EVE is, or you do but refuse to accept it's reality.

EVE is a pvp game. almost every aspect of it pits players against each other. The guys mining in a belt are basically pvping with every other miner for isk. pvp doesn't just mean ship combat.

As a pve pilot, I play the game by gathering resources (isk, mods, blueprints) against opposition (others players in null and low sec trying to kill me) and potential opposition (the risk of gankers in high sec). I have always done so with few loses and except for very recently (look up this toon on EVE-kill and see the Stratios I killed with my pve Gila)), without being forced into ship to ship combat. To do this I figure out ways to make my self a hard target, and also an unprofitable target, and as a last resource I fit my ships to fight if i have no other choice.

But my desire to PVE does NOT change the fundamental truth of the game: EVE is a pvp game because it features (as a core game mechanic) universal non-consensual pvp everywere a ship can be undocked and in space. The choice then is 'deal with that reality or don't'.

What you are indicating as a preference, ie the ability to totally prevent someone from 'bringing you to battle against your will' so to speak, not only goes against the design of EVE, but also it's spirit.

I know the nature of the game, and accept it.

The OP was about why people are leaving. I have over the years brought many friends to the game, and very few have stayed. They tend to hold the same opinion-- For all the game offers, the nature of it's PvP isn't fun. They don't want to play the predator/victim games, and there is very little way to enjoy the parts of the game they like because of the behavior of those who enjoy preying on others in pointless battles.

That's what they didn't like.

EVE is a great game, but it's PVE needs a lot of work, and that includes ways to actually enjoy it without constant harassment.

Agree, there is no way you can do PVE in EVE without playing hunter/prey games, unless the hunters ignore you.

That cannot really be changed though, it's one of EVE's core foundations.

So we'll just have to do without your friends.

Now that does sound like fun.

I think one of the biggest reasons people leave is because of character progression. In most online games that have an established player-base the existing players who participate in end-game content serve as the benchmark for new players to aspire to and one day to equal. In eve it is impossible to match players that have been around a long time because of the time-based skill progression and as this is an integral part of the game's design, it is the reason eve will always be a niche game and won't ever have the same kind of retention rate as other mainstream games.

Better tutorials, complexity that doesn't decrease comprehension, more avenues for new pilots to succeed and compete (if only with each other), and content that isn't reliant on sp count are all ways to increase the retention rate to at least some degree.

The point isn't that it takes time to get good at a particular class or in a particular area of the game, the point is that there is no "level 80" to get to, blitzing or not. In eve you start at 'level 0 days' and you will never catch up to those 'level 10 years' no matter how hard you grind or how much you play. Whether or not you would be better or worse than those who have put in far more time isn't the point because a new player can never find out since they can't compete on an otherwise even footing with an older player due to the skillpoint differential.

Assuming this is your main character(claiming to have an alt doesn't count because I can't verify that), or at least the one with the best representative history(since it's the only one presented).

This isn't a personal attack, but rather an attempt to understand your contrarian attitude, and unwillingness to accept any other viewpoint than your own. Bear with me, this is a fairly lengthy post, but I have a point fairly relevant to the current discussion.

I have decided to look at your killboard and the boards of the corporations you have been a part of to better understand your play experience and your erroneous views of the game and how you think it should be.



Now, my point is that. Your EVE career in the form of recorded killboard results(which is the only really accurate and actually fairly indicative source of career exploits and endeavors). Shows that you have never been successful or at least interested in PVP, and that you avoid losses to an excessive point that actually penalizes your own chances of high reward. You're constantly talking about victimization in EVE because you have always taken the stance of one and never attempted to fight back(or if you have you gave up quickly when met with the slightest opposition).

It's understandable that you would have a view point like you do now given your history, but what is not understandable and even contemptible is that because of your limited play experience and defaulting to victimization is trying to change everyone else's game to suit your own purposes. I find that not only distasteful and exploitative of people's good nature, but also representative of the precise nature of what is wrong with what is commonly and colloquially referred to as the carebear or bear mentality.

To expand on this, because of your own inability to learn and adapt to changing circumstances you want other people to have the same handicaps as you perceive that you do, but the fact is that you are not handicapped in this game. The only thing stopping you from being able to play this game the way that other people do is your own stubborn and self righteous decision not to partake in actions you have decided are morally wrong. In EVE morality is a complete irrelevancy. What matters is what can be practically applied to work. Things like loyalty, trust, and friendship still exist, but that because they are useful. What isn't useful is kowtowing to the unable masses. instead you shake loose and provide an example to them of how you can succeed and how you're not special because they can do it too.

So in conclusion, sorry if I missed some of my chronic typo habits, but I digress, Stop trying to bend the game into what it is not and stop trying to ruin other people's play experience because you're unwilling to defend your own. Because that's your fault. Not ours.

Only for the unimaginative. I red your posts and wonder if we're playing the same game. Then I realize that fundamentally, we aren't.

I've been all over new Eden and after 7 years I'm STILL finding new things to do. For example i didn't know there were special signature complex in region like Catch (in the cosmos constellation), Delve and Vail of the Silent that don't appear anywhere else., a Few weeks ago I started to look for ways to employ the new micro jump units to help me do lvl 5 missions in low sec more safely etc etc.

What you keep describing is basically more hand holding and that's wrong for EVE. A 'thinking players game' like EVE should not be altered simply because the average gamer is uninterested in this kind of intricate game play. More people play Checkers than Chess, that doesn't mean Chess is bad, it means go play checkers if you want 'simple and straightforward' gameplay.



That 20 billion could be used to start a war...which is an opportunity to make even more isk selling ships and guns and drugs to both sides. That 20 billion can be used to by another character and/or sub another account so you can litterally be in 2 places at once and fly ships you could not unless you trained them up yourself.

I see nothing but self limiting in your posts, and to be honest I think that's terrible. Terrible because there are a LOT of self limiting gamers (example, the 'high sec only' players we have who never leave high sec because the thought of loosing so much as a frigate to another player terrifies them) , but rather than deal with their self limiting behavior, they expect the game to be modified to accommodate their behavior.

You see it all the time in this forum, which is less about "Features and Ideas" and more about "please CCP limit that other guy's ability to interact with me".

EVE will always need new players, the RIGHT new players. Bold, inventive people who aren't so self limiting that they can't figure out what to do in a game that literally has a million tools for them to use.



And forgive me for saying this but i think that's insane, not unlike a person in real life staying in an abusive relationship with someone they actually don't like based on the idea that "he has so much potential and could be a really good guy some day", especially when there are millions of ALREADY good guys out there just waiting.

I love EVE for what it is and hope that CCP continues to grow it and change it in responsible ways that preserve what it is.