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How do you all feel about a change to Eve's physics model?

Author
Juan Diolosa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-07-09 15:30:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It's the anti-Kzinti lesson: the efficiency of a weapon is directly proportional to its efficiency as a manoeuvring thruster.

Tippia wrote:
…also, the more fun way to add realism to the EVE physics model would be to add Brownian motion.

Particle theory and Space Cats in the SAME thread?

Attention That's gotta be over 9000! Attention

(PS: Kzinti scatter packs 4tw... Klingon's are wannabe drone users)
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#42 - 2014-07-09 16:58:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Why DID they say "fluid dynamics" in the first place anyway?

Why not "Your maneuvering thrusters do all the work but are not displayed. The simulation shows a rocket burn when there is none for clarity only"

That is to say, you come to a stop when you dial your speed down because you set your speed to zero, not your engine burn to "none"

Juan Diolosa wrote:

(PS: Kzinti scatter packs 4tw... Klingon's are wannabe drone users)


ESG 4tw

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Juan Diolosa
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-07-09 19:47:29 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
ESG 4tw
Ugh, Lyran! The counter to my drone waves. One ESG equipped ship, okay... I can handle. More than that? pssshhhh... HET 180, extend 50 hexes, disengage. FU Lyrans.
Nose' Feliciano
#44 - 2014-07-09 21:36:08 UTC
Well, I would at least have EVE acknowledge that gravity exists.

You know, be able to orbit a moon or planet.

Warp to a sun and have it slowly pull you in when you get too close.

That sort of thing.
Physics Model
Doomheim
#45 - 2014-07-09 22:01:04 UTC
Frankly, I don't much like being talked about like this.
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#46 - 2014-07-09 22:05:49 UTC
Physics Model wrote:
Frankly, I don't much like being talked about like this.


You seem to hiding an anti-gravity device under your jacket.

Explain that, Ms Physics.

Mr Epeen Cool
Nose' Feliciano
#47 - 2014-07-09 22:23:11 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Physics Model wrote:
Frankly, I don't much like being talked about like this.


You seem to hiding an anti-gravity device under your jacket.

Explain that, Ms Physics.

Mr Epeen Cool



Helium breast implants. It's the latest thing.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#48 - 2014-07-09 23:35:59 UTC
I've always thought every ship should have the same terminal velocity in normal space maneuvering. The key differentiations being vector changes depending on mass. Interceptors would hit their top speed roughly as quickly as now, Titans... yeah. Tomorrow.

Barring any actual physics model that isn't just a troll alt, which would ruin EvE as a game. We should be happy we have space unterseeboots online.

Still, I've always thought the game would be more fun using the Freelancer system. By Jove I miss that game.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2014-07-09 23:58:33 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Why DID they say "fluid dynamics" in the first place anyway?

Why not "Your maneuvering thrusters do all the work but are not displayed. The simulation shows a rocket burn when there is none for clarity only"

That is to say, you come to a stop when you dial your speed down because you set your speed to zero, not your engine burn to "none"



Virtually all games, including all combat flight sims, and all civilian flight sims except X-Plane work this way. They have a preset flight model that varies the vehicles performance based on control inputs but no actual "physics" calculations are going on.

X-Plane is the one exception that I know of. In X-Plane you can design something load it into the sim and see if it will really fly in real life or will crash and burn.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#50 - 2014-07-10 00:18:51 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Virtually all games, including all combat flight sims, and all civilian flight sims except X-Plane work this way. They have a preset flight model that varies the vehicles performance based on control inputs but no actual "physics" calculations are going on.

X-Plane is the one exception that I know of. In X-Plane you can design something load it into the sim and see if it will really fly in real life or will crash and burn.

I seem to recall that the Falcon series had some actual physics built into it alongside that kind of static modelling, which is how it allowed you to get into proper deep stalls, compression stalls and flat spins. Then again, it was aiming to be an actual combat flight sim series — not an arcade game in disguise like the ones you see today. P
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#51 - 2014-07-10 00:21:45 UTC
Such a fundamental change to the physics model would require a complete rewrite of pretty much the entire game and re-balancing of all content around the new model. I think they have better uses for their time personally.

Besides, truly Newtonian and frictionless environments are kind of boring, and the maneuvers you end up doing come down to spiraling and jousting.

And if you want to simulate realistic orbital mechanics and physics (n body or patched conic model doesn't matter) you'd better read up on your orbital mechanics before you complain about the various counter-intuitive effects that has.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Lina Alar
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2014-07-10 00:46:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Lina Alar
Nah, the warp-core-causes-subspace-drag lore works well enough. If you really want to bake people's noodle, how about making the orbital bodies... orbit? Buh-bye bookmarks.

An explanation of Eve socialization: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTbgvYPVdXE

Lick with your main™

masternerdguy
Doomheim
#53 - 2014-07-10 00:48:00 UTC
Lina Alar wrote:
Nah, the warp-core-causes-subspace-drag lore works well enough. If you really want to bake people's noodle, how about making the orbital bodies... orbit. Buh-bye bookmarks.


Bye bye pretty much anything you thought you knew about space flight, as anyone who has ever played Orbiter or more recently Kerbal Space Program can tell you.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#54 - 2014-07-10 00:49:01 UTC
masternerdguy wrote:
And if you want to simulate realistic orbital mechanics and physics (n body or patched conic model doesn't matter) you'd better read up on your orbital mechanics before you complain about the various counter-intuitive effects that has.

Pff! What's so strange about having to slow down in order to catch up with someone ahead of you? P
Greyscale Dash
Doomheim
#55 - 2014-07-10 00:58:26 UTC
Nose' Feliciano wrote:
Well, I would at least have EVE acknowledge that gravity exists.

You know, be able to orbit a moon or planet.

Warp to a sun and have it slowly pull you in when you get too close.

That sort of thing.


Actually it's pretty damn hard to hit the sun. You have to kill enough orbital velocity that you hit the surface, and that's a lot of velocity.

Remember there are planets that orbit their stars (which are many times the mass of the sun) in 4 day orbits at insane speeds because of how close they are.
Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution
#56 - 2014-07-10 02:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Titania Hrothgar
Lothros Andastar wrote:
I think people should be barred from playing the game until they pass an exam on the Lore of the game.

THERE IS A BLOODY REASON WHY THE PHYSICS ARE LIKE THEY ARE. Go read up on the backstory of the game, then come back and apologise for this stupid post that seems to pop up every week.

If you don't like this game, go play something else.


No one said they didn't like it.

All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.

Titania Hrothgar
Nemesis Retribution
#57 - 2014-07-10 02:32:57 UTC
Eve could have fixed this issue by using a different propulsion system. Perhaps a displacement engine that propelled the ship by moving space around the ship as in the popular show Star Trek. They were able to keep to the physics of empty space while enabling the engines to move and stop the ship in all directions. They used an impulse drive, not Thrusters. They only used Thrusters for minute movements.

I merely PRETEND that my ships have an impulse drive. There's no reason for space to be fluidic. Wormholes take you to far away systems and they can't all be fluidic when Earth's region isn't.

You all can play however you wish and please do. This is simply how I view the game.

I mean think about it- My ships can move so fast that if space WAS fluidic, my ship would be torn apart! It literally moves 9,000 times faster than light at high warp! I have another ship that moves over 10,000 times the speed of light! Not even Star Trek ships could go that fast without the help of a supremely powerful being!

There's no way in hell that my ships are strong enough to withstand that kind of pressure but then blow up when ganked by projectile turrets.

So, yeah... my ships operate on non-standard propulsion and exist in empty space.

All the world's a stage and all the men and women are the players.

Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2014-07-10 03:56:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
Tippia wrote:

I seem to recall that the Falcon series had some actual physics built into it alongside that kind of static modelling, which is how it allowed you to get into proper deep stalls, compression stalls and flat spins. Then again, it was aiming to be an actual combat flight sim series — not an arcade game in disguise like the ones you see today. P


Inverted flat spins are the most fun :D

EDIT: The original IL2 series and the unsuccessful sequel IL2: Cliffs of Dover both have very realistic behavior in unusual flight attitudes but neither work by doing actual physics calculations.
Mithandra
B.O.P Supplication For Glorious
Dracarys.
#59 - 2014-07-10 09:02:24 UTC
Nose' Feliciano wrote:
Quote:
EVE's physics engine is based on a 'fluid dynamics model' which assumes that 'space' has some substance to it and thus some friction, this means that with the ship engine turned off you will decelerate, ultimately to a standstill. -wiki


How about a more RL model of space?

What would it help? What would it break? And how difficult would it be to implement?

Personally I would like to fly my spaceship in "space" and not in invisible water.


A better question would be why bother.

There's a metric ton of other things that need fixing/balancing/nerfing without ripping the heart out of eve and reprogramming it

Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community

Sodabro
Doomheim
#60 - 2014-07-10 09:39:25 UTC
TL;DR - NO BRAKES ON THE **** TRAIN
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