Player Features and Ideas Discussion

oh look another, oh no you can't do that, this game is for just us, and anyone ideas that would change how we play the game is wrong

I havent seen any replies to what i posted,, and am curious as to what people think of it.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4785725#post4785725

Jumpdrives will still exist cynos will still exist they will still have value. Bypassing gatecamps , Jumping into battles in a preferred position. Cynoing onto a station things like that.

Alliance Home system I don't agree because under you're suggested change larger alliances are punished. Goonswarm Federation as a example have 10k members. They require more systems and from what I gather from your post is that the further away from the home system the less benefits they get. This punishes someone like GFed for no good reason.

I think everyone agrees sov cost should be tied to utilization. Heavy utilization should give discounts to the sov bill and increase the tenacity of sov structures. Whereas underutilization ( levels are all debatable) should increase sov cost and sov structures have less tenacity.

Idisagree completely with map statistics being removed. I think they are a fair and equitable way for people to use for intel. You still need to travel to the system to see who and what is doing things.

Grav Sites - Perhaps in a nullsec where you rely on producing locally this makes sense. Tucking miners away in some site that needs to be probed down seems silly. We want people working together and PVP'rs actively protecting miners. Well hostile parties seeking to destroy miners need some reasonable measure of being able to get to the miners before they can simply dock up. Not to say that miners should die when a hostile enters system.

Alchemy - Yeah this would be a no brainer in a nullsec that exist post power projection nerf.

Outpost - I am not sure that we would want more than one outpost per system. Why wouldn't you just want to upgrade your current outpost eliminating the need for more outpost. I think outpost upgrades should become cheaper and there should be a greater selection of upgrades and more levels. Goonswarm Federation has a ton of corps they should be able to upgrade a station to the point that all of those corps could have a office. It shouldn't cost a bajillion isk either. A upgrade like office upgrade should cost a flat amount and give you X amount of slots.

Jumpbridges being attached - I agree they should be attached to other sov. No more islands. You can have an island somewhere but that island can only have jumpbridges within that island.

Stations not affected by sov - I like the spirit of the idea ( I can recall ISS and how they were a neutral party that offered services just like you describe) . However how stations are conquered needs to be fleshed out. The sov owner has to have some means of control over the station should the other party become fowl or default on the terms of use. Perhaps the treaty system could come into play here with station owners being able to lease a station to 3rd parties while still retaining ownership.

HTH

Shadoo , Mister Vee , Vince Draken and I had this idea a year ago. In the end it could be fun for a short time but it would be hollow and meaningless. Much as most of the fighting that blocks are doing now. Both blocks have everything they want there is no need or little will to go all in and risk destruction. Why risk it we got the goodlife now is the mentality. Peacetime reimbursements , Endless Supers with isk to rebuild them when the occasional woops happens. I know I am the minority I say F it all lets just get it on because it will be epic. But most people have attachment to their space pixels and are only willing to risk them if there is a reasonable chance of success.

Again to what end are they bringing 1000 of whatever to a fight. If its a system they plan to take that borders there existing space that they can utilize I say good for them. They had a 1000 dudes obviously they needed that system. Because if they take it and don't need it and can't utilize it its going to cost them a fortune. Now if those 1000 whatevers are traveling to some distant spot to take something or help take something I say ok great that 1000 helped take it. Now what happens when they leave and the 1000 whatevers aren't there to protect it? Are those 1000 whatevers going to travel back and forth everyday. I mean if the 1000 whatevers are traveling back and forth everyday then damn thats a 1000 whatevers not at there home to defend. I'd dial up some mercs or enemies of the 1000 whatevers and say " hey 1000 whatevers are traveling here everyday all there stuff is undefended" . Bam now 1000 whatevers have a choice to make " Do we take our 1000 whatevers over here or do we need our 1000 whatevers to stop stuff happening in our own space. You know since we already established they like using 1000 whatevers to get the job done.


Like I feel like you are not connecting the dots here. Only seeing part of the equation that reinforces your bias. During the Haloween war the attackers CFC , RUS , BL tried doing exactly what I am suggesting. The problem with that idea was that because of power projection N3/PL specifically me for a large part was able to bounce slowcat/subcap/super fleets all over the universe and put out fires as they were lit. CFC , RUS , BL were a impressive force able to create REAL pressure all over the map. But because of power projection I was able to counter that pressure.

*Edit to expand on my point.

Ok the reasons why you see those 100-200 man roaming fleets everyday are easy to explain.

1. They are from coalitions. Whose individual alliances all live in different regions. But because of jumpbridges they can all come together very easy to form these 100-200 man fleets.
2. These 100-200 man fleets don't have anything else to do. They don't have miners or builders to protect in there home space. They don't have logistic pipes to patrol. The only thing they can do is form a fleet big enough to go somewhere to get pvp content and the fleet has to be big enough to deal with what they deem as expected possible escalation.
3. Perhaps these pilots are all staging from VFK or something like that. They are doing so because there is nothing for them to do in there home area. I mean they can run some anoms but other than that they are where the action is.

With the changes I suggested you will see much more focus on home space. Doing things in home space and protecting it. Raiding other neighboring space to disrupt those activities like mining and etcetra. They definitely won't be able to skip large swaths of space via cynos and jumpbridges. So coming together to form those fleets will in itself be a chore.

Part of the issue with the current system is the single sprawl of one alliance that is too big to take on no? while its true that capital and home systems doesn't affect the coalition issue, it does affect the sprawl issue. encouraging multiple smaller alliances seems to me to be a way to prune some of the sprawl and combined with the requirement for activity to maintain sov spaces, it would open a lot of space for new groups to gain foot holds.
You mentioned 10k Goonswarm members (Grr Goons) I agree that it would penalize goons and other large sov holding alliances, but i believe that they would find a balance between the space they can use and the space they can pay for.
Again combine this with Sov needing to be contiguous, Nullsec Alliances wouldn't in general cover three regions, while a coalition might still anyways. It makes sense to me that the farther out from the seat of government a place is, the lesser the control of the government in that location. Much like how lowsec is still Empire sov, but not patrolled by concord or empire navy. Its restrictions are lesser because of its distance from the Government seat.

I dislike the map intel because it doesnt require a person to go to a system and see its utilization, when looking for fights or miners one only has to watch the map for locations in the target area where pilots are active, or have been active in the last half hour. If sov is tied to utilization, watching the map over the course of a day can give a pretty good idea of when a good time to find a fight will be. With the shrinking of individual sov areas, it becomes a lot easier to tell where but not as easy as to tell when. Map data should be removed.

Grav sites, With the changes to many ships warp speeds and acceleration to warp and the continued slowness of barges and exhumers, miners in null do need something to help them not die as soon as someone notices them. changing sites back to sigs instead of anoms is an added amount of protection for miners. And if nullsec ever wants to be independent of hisec importation its pretty important to give miners some protections form the pvp fleets that roam. Its no accident that the vast majority of belts in null systems arent mined out, or mined at all. Buffing ore yields can only go so far if the ships themselves are too vulnerable in a systems belts.
When was the last time you sat around for 8 hours "protecting" hulks in system belts? I know that sometimes people will form a HD fleet to try to kill the roaming fleet but I dont know when the last time that actually happened. (this is not to say that it never happens, I am just unaware of when it does, because it seems like never)

Multiple outposts because everyone likes to get things shipped. It also allows large alliances to create the stations they may/may not need to protect their coalition without needing to own the sov in noncontigious locations. Third party People seeding a region can gain access to particular corp stations and not others. It allows Player sov to act like NPC sov and get more activity. However i agree that outposts need to be quite a bit cheaper and the opgrades need to be a lot cheaper. If CCP ever makes outposts destructable, They need to have a lot more flexability in upgrading, Fortress Black Frog Market Station and all that. Modular Outposts?
IF null is ever supposed to be more active in its own markets, more stations owned by more people will breed conflict and provide places where third parties can gain foot holds and supply themselves and those in conflict. Personally i would love it if you could oust the sov holders while not disturbing the renters. and simply inherit the serfs as part of the system.

But yes you are correct that the whole outpost system needs to be redone.

Hi let me introduce you to Alchemy & Wormhole.

Hello Potato my name is Alchemy you can use me like a cheap whore to take one thing and it turn it into another.

Hi Potato im Wormhole you can also use me like your little slave to find shortcuts from one place to another.

Using Alchemy to fill all of your needs for t2 production. Right, good luck with that.

Using wormholes for all of your null-empire logistical needs. Right.........Been there, done that, not doing it again.

I take it you don't actually have any counter points to the post above yours? Unless you REALLY think a full T2 production line is viable with alchemy alone. In that case: lol.

Then again, this coming from the guy that's fine with faster-than-battleship roaming and refitting nidhoggurs, I'm not surprised. It's good that you dropped the whole "helping the little guy" facade though. Much more honest now.