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[Idea] Cyno-less Jump capability
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IceAero
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-07-08 21:42:30 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
All stations should have a cyno beacon that anyone can fuel and light. bam problem of noob ship cynos solved for normal caps.



Wow. This needs to happen. For any outpost your corp/alliance owns.

Why not??
Mashka Cybertrona
Imperial Dawn.
#22 - 2014-07-08 22:08:04 UTC
deploy-able cyno jammers would work to prevent people jumping to a system, shutting down that systems ability to be used as a capital gateway.

Also, I believe that titans should be forced through a bridge it lights for sub-caps at the end of the bridge cycle. So if they want to bridge to a sun, that's fine, they now have to defend a titan at a beacon ANYONE else can jump to who are in range.
GodsWork
Realm of God
#23 - 2014-07-08 22:22:02 UTC
Mashka Cybertrona wrote:
With the new "power projection thread" in full swing I wanted to separate this idea in the hopes of drawing opinions regarding this proposed mechanic.

Simply put, allow any jump capable ship to use the in-game capital navigation tool (you have to bind a key for it) to allow them to jump to systems instead of cyno use, This kind of jump would use the sun as jump point.

Why?
it puts capitals that move at risk.

Current senario for moving down a cyno chain;
Jump, dock, undock, repeat.

The existing mechanics not only allow practically instantaneous travel, it allows for virtually 100% safe instantaneous travel. What I propose gives people the option to make mistakes, Do you scout the systems or just jump blindly? It also opens the door for capital choke points which can be camped similar to conventional gates.

Just a small Idea :P


this would work to the advantage of the blob mentality... big NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We need to break the we are larger we own the win button in this game otherwise only a few dozen people will control who gets all the shinny toys.... not fair the isk distribution in this game is skewed...
Mashka Cybertrona
Imperial Dawn.
#24 - 2014-07-09 02:46:03 UTC
GodsWork wrote:
Mashka Cybertrona wrote:
With the new "power projection thread" in full swing I wanted to separate this idea in the hopes of drawing opinions regarding this proposed mechanic.

Simply put, allow any jump capable ship to use the in-game capital navigation tool (you have to bind a key for it) to allow them to jump to systems instead of cyno use, This kind of jump would use the sun as jump point.

Why?
it puts capitals that move at risk.

Current senario for moving down a cyno chain;
Jump, dock, undock, repeat.

The existing mechanics not only allow practically instantaneous travel, it allows for virtually 100% safe instantaneous travel. What I propose gives people the option to make mistakes, Do you scout the systems or just jump blindly? It also opens the door for capital choke points which can be camped similar to conventional gates.

Just a small Idea :P


this would work to the advantage of the blob mentality... big NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We need to break the we are larger we own the win button in this game otherwise only a few dozen people will control who gets all the shinny toys.... not fair the isk distribution in this game is skewed...


nerfing all the big toys just means the next largest toy becomes the thing to complain about. There is a problem, it isnt that capitals are overpowered its that they can travel extremely fast across eve without risk :)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#25 - 2014-07-09 13:51:18 UTC
GodsWork wrote:
this would work to the advantage of the blob mentality... big NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We need to break the we are larger we own the win button in this game otherwise only a few dozen people will control who gets all the shinny toys.... not fair the isk distribution in this game is skewed...

I believe your philosophy expressed here has a fatal flaw.

That flaw being this, the assumption that any mechanic which scales with participation favors that added participation.
This assumes too much, I believe.

What we have currently, a system that demands a separate account to initiate a cyno, penalizes small groups and solo operations by placing an obstacle between them and this ability.
By example and operation, THIS is what favors large groups or alliances, since it is an obstacle they can always handle more easily than a smaller group.
They ALWAYS have enough accounts available to spare one or more for cyno duty.

By leveling the requirements, this idea would open up opportunities for more smaller group options and tactics.
That clone vat on the titan or rorqual? It has meaning if the pilots cannot slow boat inties across the gates to the system in question.

The concept of a sun grid being the new bottleneck like a gate, will do more to promote interaction by far than requiring a cyno.
We have already seen how the cyno need is often being met, with alt puppets rather than additional players.

Knowing that the caps will land in certain systems, however, and gate camps can grow to meet the opportunity.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#26 - 2014-07-09 19:03:33 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
GodsWork wrote:
this would work to the advantage of the blob mentality... big NNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
We need to break the we are larger we own the win button in this game otherwise only a few dozen people will control who gets all the shinny toys.... not fair the isk distribution in this game is skewed...

I believe your philosophy expressed here has a fatal flaw.

That flaw being this, the assumption that any mechanic which scales with participation favors that added participation.
This assumes too much, I believe.

What we have currently, a system that demands a separate account to initiate a cyno, penalizes small groups and solo operations by placing an obstacle between them and this ability.
By example and operation, THIS is what favors large groups or alliances, since it is an obstacle they can always handle more easily than a smaller group.
They ALWAYS have enough accounts available to spare one or more for cyno duty.

By leveling the requirements, this idea would open up opportunities for more smaller group options and tactics.
That clone vat on the titan or rorqual? It has meaning if the pilots cannot slow boat inties across the gates to the system in question.

The concept of a sun grid being the new bottleneck like a gate, will do more to promote interaction by far than requiring a cyno.
We have already seen how the cyno need is often being met, with alt puppets rather than additional players.

Knowing that the caps will land in certain systems, however, and gate camps can grow to meet the opportunity.



the cyno alts just turn into scouts to make sure system is empty if not find one in range that is empty.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#27 - 2014-07-09 19:20:08 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
the cyno alts just turn into scouts to make sure system is empty if not find one in range that is empty.

This exactly.

The wise players will always scout before exposing a high value asset.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#28 - 2014-07-09 19:54:16 UTC
Jump to system. Cloak. Wait for cap to regenerate. Have sandwich in meantime. Decloak. Jump. Repeat. Don't forget to stock up on sandwiches.

I kinda like it, but if I jump to a system like this with no randomness (i.e. land anywhere on a grid or closer) I'm pretty much guaranteed to die (there will be hictors/dictors cloaked on grid and an assassination squad waiting). If it is to any great degree random, it is safe (the cloak). I do not feel this solution addresses the proposed problem.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#29 - 2014-07-09 20:29:47 UTC
NearNihil wrote:
Jump to system. Cloak. Wait for cap to regenerate. Have sandwich in meantime. Decloak. Jump. Repeat. Don't forget to stock up on sandwiches.

I kinda like it, but if I jump to a system like this with no randomness (i.e. land anywhere on a grid or closer) I'm pretty much guaranteed to die (there will be hictors/dictors cloaked on grid and an assassination squad waiting). If it is to any great degree random, it is safe (the cloak). I do not feel this solution addresses the proposed problem.

If the problem is relying on a puppet alt to cyno for you, it fixes that.

If it is wanting to be safe, then no, absolutely not. This is risk by virtue of the fact you would be jumping into the unknown, if you had no scout.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#30 - 2014-07-09 22:00:20 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
NearNihil wrote:
Jump to system. Cloak. Wait for cap to regenerate. Have sandwich in meantime. Decloak. Jump. Repeat. Don't forget to stock up on sandwiches.

I kinda like it, but if I jump to a system like this with no randomness (i.e. land anywhere on a grid or closer) I'm pretty much guaranteed to die (there will be hictors/dictors cloaked on grid and an assassination squad waiting). If it is to any great degree random, it is safe (the cloak). I do not feel this solution addresses the proposed problem.

If the problem is relying on a puppet alt to cyno for you, it fixes that.

If it is wanting to be safe, then no, absolutely not. This is risk by virtue of the fact you would be jumping into the unknown, if you had no scout.




a puppet alt cyno or a puppet alt scout. I don't see a difference other than the scout can be in a shuttle and move faster for cheaper.
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#31 - 2014-07-09 22:16:08 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
NearNihil wrote:
Jump to system. Cloak. Wait for cap to regenerate. Have sandwich in meantime. Decloak. Jump. Repeat. Don't forget to stock up on sandwiches.

I kinda like it, but if I jump to a system like this with no randomness (i.e. land anywhere on a grid or closer) I'm pretty much guaranteed to die (there will be hictors/dictors cloaked on grid and an assassination squad waiting). If it is to any great degree random, it is safe (the cloak). I do not feel this solution addresses the proposed problem.

If the problem is relying on a puppet alt to cyno for you, it fixes that.

If it is wanting to be safe, then no, absolutely not. This is risk by virtue of the fact you would be jumping into the unknown, if you had no scout.




a puppet alt cyno or a puppet alt scout. I don't see a difference other than the scout can be in a shuttle and move faster for cheaper.


Just a thought. Fly in light a cyno in system (bait) but jump to the sun. There you bought yourself a few seconds to get offgrid from the sun.

Also i doubt that post change there would be ambush squads sitting on every sun. Maybe bubbles, but plenty of gates are bubbled already.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#32 - 2014-07-09 22:22:44 UTC
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
NearNihil wrote:
Jump to system. Cloak. Wait for cap to regenerate. Have sandwich in meantime. Decloak. Jump. Repeat. Don't forget to stock up on sandwiches.

I kinda like it, but if I jump to a system like this with no randomness (i.e. land anywhere on a grid or closer) I'm pretty much guaranteed to die (there will be hictors/dictors cloaked on grid and an assassination squad waiting). If it is to any great degree random, it is safe (the cloak). I do not feel this solution addresses the proposed problem.

If the problem is relying on a puppet alt to cyno for you, it fixes that.

If it is wanting to be safe, then no, absolutely not. This is risk by virtue of the fact you would be jumping into the unknown, if you had no scout.




a puppet alt cyno or a puppet alt scout. I don't see a difference other than the scout can be in a shuttle and move faster for cheaper.


Just a thought. Fly in light a cyno in system (bait) but jump to the sun. There you bought yourself a few seconds to get offgrid from the sun.

Also i doubt that post change there would be ambush squads sitting on every sun. Maybe bubbles, but plenty of gates are bubbled already.



I guess. I kind of like cyno'ing on to station and being able to insta dock when I land, eases my nerves cause I don't wanna lost a carrier cause I'm using it as a poor mans jump freighter. For supers I don't know what they do now as they cant dock so no comment from me.
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#33 - 2014-07-09 22:27:50 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
NearNihil wrote:
Jump to system. Cloak. Wait for cap to regenerate. Have sandwich in meantime. Decloak. Jump. Repeat. Don't forget to stock up on sandwiches.

I kinda like it, but if I jump to a system like this with no randomness (i.e. land anywhere on a grid or closer) I'm pretty much guaranteed to die (there will be hictors/dictors cloaked on grid and an assassination squad waiting). If it is to any great degree random, it is safe (the cloak). I do not feel this solution addresses the proposed problem.

If the problem is relying on a puppet alt to cyno for you, it fixes that.

If it is wanting to be safe, then no, absolutely not. This is risk by virtue of the fact you would be jumping into the unknown, if you had no scout.




a puppet alt cyno or a puppet alt scout. I don't see a difference other than the scout can be in a shuttle and move faster for cheaper.


Just a thought. Fly in light a cyno in system (bait) but jump to the sun. There you bought yourself a few seconds to get offgrid from the sun.

Also i doubt that post change there would be ambush squads sitting on every sun. Maybe bubbles, but plenty of gates are bubbled already.



I guess. I kind of like cyno'ing on to station and being able to insta dock when I land, eases my nerves cause I don't wanna lost a carrier cause I'm using it as a poor mans jump freighter. For supers I don't know what they do now as they cant dock so no comment from me.


well that was meant as an example of something to do offensively (so you dont have to drop into a fight with no cap) heck if they know your coming to an area, can light several cynos around where they can be scouted, and jump somewhere else where there is no cyno. If anything it gives you a degree more ability to fool the enemy.
Mashka Cybertrona
Imperial Dawn.
#34 - 2014-07-09 23:38:10 UTC
"EVERY SUN GRID WILL BE CAMPED!"

This makes me laugh, just like every gate in nullsec is currently camped? It would put more capitals at risk, people playing it safe would still be safe. If a sun grid is being actively camped its being done so by active players seeking to cut off a logistical route for other players, simple enough solution would be to go around if possible or to run/clear the blockade.

Jump freighters would also be effected by this change, just like your "poor mans jump freighter". Eliminate the requirement for throw away cyno characters, having a cloaky cyno 5 toon for covert hotdrops and like like would still be valuable.
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