Player Features and Ideas Discussion

That is why we need systems where having too many blues become a hindrance.

If for example , sov was based on your PVP activity, havign too many blues would be bad, because you would not have things to kill. If the alliance maintenance fees took the number of players that can dock at your stations on an exponential multiplier, then suddenly having lots of blues become non pratical.

On my eyes, these types of changes are mandatory. You can curb power projection as much as you want, but without that, the now stablished power block s will never split.

I am still skeptical about the power projection solvign the too many blues. It will just make attacking a corner of a too large coalition easier because the other parts cannot reinforce them asap. But it does NOTHING to make people WANT to split from said blocs. IT will still be worse to be in a smaller group than i na larger group.

NErfign power projection and mobility only reduces the advantages of having a larger bloc, but still does not give any bennefit for wantign to split from a power bloc you are on.

If your plan is to make peopel bored because they do nto get fights within a 1 hour travel time so they want to spli, I fear the main effect will be losing players BEFORE they admit spliting from the larger group . Mainly because the first alliance the slips out.. it gets a bullseye painted on its forehead.


Your proposals are needed, but not enough. You must not think only on how the mechanics will work and expect peopel to react as you would react. You need to remember this is a psycological game and people will react in other ways. A lot of them will only answer to PUSH into a direction, and reducign the pull into the other direction will not be enough.

Nice post Bro,

In my humble opinion the underlying effect of the Capitols has been the lessening of the challenges that null sec used to create. It was never easy to take a region of space and then develop it. It was then even harder to secure it and make it reasonably safe so the wallets could grow. The challenges provided volumes of content for the players involved and was an ongoing never ending task keeping large numbers of players involved and busy.

In addition it kept it more local, rarely did an Alliance go after sovereignty in a region 80 jumps away, they dealt with the day to day growth and expansion close by. The challenges also regulated the moves that an Alliance would or could make. Taking a region was hard work unlike today when a power block can flip a region limited only by the timers with their 200 plus Super fleet half way across the map.

I could speak volumes of the what, how and who of the old days in Eve only to be called nostalgic, however it is important to say that when my old school vet bros talk about the old days they don’t talk about the grind of say escorting freighters across dangerous space or how much of an ordeal it was to get that POS moved in and set up. They talk about how much fun they used to have and how fulfilling it was to work together, take risks together and die together defending what we called home.

I don’t have an ultimate answer although I have spent hundreds of hours pondering it. I do however yield a lot of serious consideration when the FC of one of the largest Capitol Fleets in the game talks about the changes needed to them and their cause and effect on the game. He speaks from a perspective that only a very small handful of people can.

Bottom line, it is time for serious changes and that is something most of us can agree on.

Your proposal will just split into several alliances still blue to each other trying to use more effectively the space in an economic point of view. Will change nothing on the standing listings. Just make people take more time to get to a fight. That doe snot make any incentive for smaller groups to exist.

They will STIL be smahed as soon as they try to stablish themselves if they do nto want to be blue .. why? Because people will just have capitals in more stations aroudn their blue donut and just jump clone there.

It would be an experience but it would never happen. Too many enjoy the metagame. Too many enjoy never honouring a 1v1 just so they can farm "tears". Too many enjoy scamming and lieing or griefing highsec haulers and missioners while grinding Level 4's or hauling on an alt account.

What you are appealing to is the nature of extended human cooperation as exemplified in the Prisoner's Dilemma

This only works in a very limited capacity in EVE due to the facility of having several identities, even at the same time. In full pay to play MMO's (When Everquest 2 was pay to play it was possible to *burn* ones reputation and be blacklisted by the players) the dilemma can go a bit further due to the expense of garnering new accounts (unless the player acquires them illegally, but that's moot here), but the free to play nature of EVE allowing the ultra rich to train armies of alt accounts with in game wealth makes trust a pretty hard commodity to come by.

CCP has successfully influenced player behaviour in the past by changing the rules of the game, however usually in not the intended way. I'm sure they recognise this and are not going to make any knee-jerk changes but try to think very carefully about how the players who control the sov game will respond.

yours,

Seldjan

But why people will leave the game?
They will still keep all the regions they relay live in.
Just most of the current renting space will be occupied by smaller alliances , as defending space without living in it will be logistical and financial nightmare.

What will change for one person in case of mobility.
Yes moving capitals will be a bit more hard, but moving 1-2 ships by gates will take the same amount of time.

Fleet movements without titan and titan bridges will be hard and time consuming.

1. Moving 500 people gate by gate will cause some TIDI.
2. They have to move by group, or you loose many ships to smaller gangs
3. They will be more vulnerable to bombers , as there will be more gates someone might catch you

http://evemaps.dotlan.net/route/3:VFK-IV:HED-GP 67 jumps by gates as some of the people cannot go into the higsec.

Give 30 minutes for people to gather in VFK
Make 2 minutes per system while warping : 67*2=134
Now add few minutes every few constellations , that you have to gather all your pilots as someone got tackled by natives, or there are bubbles on the gates.
Now add time when you have to be waiting as someone got dropped, and he is logging in.
Time for people that got lost along the way.
And many more situations that can happen.

Look that many jumps on this route is using long jumps by regional gates.

Now multiply all this time by 2 if you want to take capitals along this route.

Eve will become big, not unreachable but big.

Remember - you have to get back.

0.0 Stagnation or : How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb


There is a theory in real world. It is why earth is turning into a **** hole. It is called `Tragedy of Commons`. In short it means that common resources was and always exploited by everyone. Because if you exploit more it's benefits are greater for you. So everybody tries to exploit it. Until the common resource dries up. At that moment your investment in the area turns **** and you lose your resource source.

In an ideal world, people should consume enough resource so it recycles (grows) back , so consuming the resource becomes sustainable. (This is interestingly the state of the EvE . EvE is actually never dries up.)

But in real world, this theory is doom and gloom of the earth. Earth resources are destined to stop earth economical growth in very near future.. 2070 or so.

And this is the number 1 reason on earth for starting wars (Resource wars aka 1st and 2nd world war, middle east and what not).

So what this is all about.. What about EvE?

In EvE, commons are infinite. You can mine same moon for years without a drop in efficiency. You can farm a constellation by ratting and mining... If anything it will make systems better as they upgrade according to your ratting and mining operations.

So is it wrong? Well .. It makes 0.0 so static. Same towers are mining same minerals for years. You can make a small heaven in a few constellation for your pve guys and they can exploit it to eternity(or untill CCP goes bankrupt).

Don't get me wrong I know people wants stability. We are humans but also mammals who want to have homes instinctively. We want to upgrade our stations, systems etc.

But we need `tragedy` to shake up the 0.0

Ill try to explain it in different concepts :

Ratting : For example, a system can deliver 2 bil isk (numbers must be calculated with statistical data I just throw it here) a day at most... If you over rat the system. System starts to dry up. After a week its military rating goes down. If you under rat let's say more than 1 bil isk but under 2 bil isk.. military rating goes up.
You can have tons of money making systems in a constellation so it shouldn't kill ratting instantly. You should just manage it. Move around systems etc. Let's say macro manage your ratting empire.

Mining : Same principle if you mine 1 bil unit to 2 bil unit, u make it better. Over 2 bil worse(ofcourse I make up these numbers I need better tools of CCP to see what is overmining but you can easily see that most of high sec will dry up pretty soon and even in high sec wars will start for mining grounds. ).

Moon mining : This is a deal breaker.. They should dry up. They should start up 200% capacity of today's moons. In their half life %100 and when they end %0. Best part when a moon is mined out a new one should be allocated to another moon in all of the eve... (or region). This will **** ppl of. Make a gold rush for new moons. Make constant moon scanning very important part of moon mining. Make big fishes cry out in pain and attack anyone who starts a new mining operation.

Industry : Factories may loose slots ever so slow due to overcrowding and empty factories may gain new slots. It will be nerf to some parts of highsec again. but also make it shift too. It will force industry to be liquid. Make ppl carry their BPOs around etc.

Hehehe it is wall of text so here is;

TLDR:

Add economic attrition to game. When u over mine,rat,moon mine it should just dry up. So this will cause great wars.


Further readings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
http://www.clubofrome.org/?p=5366
http://www.clubofrome.org/?p=6166
http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/18426 (nobel prize to govern the commons)

i think most of the problems with current 0.0 is mostly due to the massive grind sov warefare has become

i would sugest a revamp of the sov system

my idea is the following
(all numbers concerning timers are up for debate)

first link ownership of the station to the sov owner the corp that has sov also owns the station

next take the Ihub and turn every possible upgrade into an anchorable structure on its own
ownership of the upgrades is also linked to sov so if you take the sov you get all the upgrades that are in the system as well
every upgrade can be dissabled by hostile forces either temporary of permanent requiring a new upgrade

all stations get an option to selfdestruct that can be activated by the owner it results in a station husk and every player that has some assets in that station will get a notification
at the husk all assets that where in the station are still in it and the player/corp that owns the assets can collect them there if they want you don't lose anything
the husk can be used to build any new outpost on top of it thus also giving the option for the owner to change what kind of outpost they have in the system

now for the most important part : how to take sov from someone :)

first all sov can be attcked except a system where all conecting systems are owned by the same allience
so if an allience has a system with 3 gates and all 3 of the systems it connects to are also owned by that same allience the system in the center is "safe" meaning that if someone wants to take it they will first have to take any of the 3 systems conecting to it

any other system is always vulnerable to attack

to attack a system all you have to do is go to the TCU and start warp disrupting it with any warp disruption mod available however it only works if there is an uncloaked ship not belonging to the owning allience within 150Km of the TCU
once you start disrupting the members of the owning allience get a notification and after 10 min you start "damaging" the TCU at a set rate 30min after that it goes into the first reff timer
ref timers could stay as they currently are to give defenders some advantage
after the first timer there is a second after that the TCU and everything conected to it schanges hands the attacker can then chose what to do either claim the system for their own or burn it to the ground destroying everything conected to the TCU (upgrades and/or station)

now what can the defenders do ?

when someone is attacking the TCU the only thing they have to do to stop the disruption timer is to have 1 uncloaked ship within 150Km of the TCU of course blowing up the attacker also works :)

as for the upgrades they get the same system but only 1 ref timer and the time needed to disrupt it depends on the upgrade

i think those changes will give some serious problems for large coalitions as they can not defend 200 systems at the same time unlees they have 200 small gangs running around

those changes will turn sov warefare from a numbers game to a highly complex tactical war

at least that is my idea feel free to poke holes in it so i can try to refine the idea

I agree. We have already seen this done with ice belts. WH are similar to a degree. It should be the same with everything else. Static, infinite resources produce laziness and complacency.

They fixed tech issue, but not the passive moon resource gathering. The article below was written 2.5 years ago. The moon passive collection can remain if we get rid of jump drives.

http://archive.evenews24.com/2012/11/29/a-letter-to-csm-7-back-to-the-gates/

During my CSM video blog series.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1aTNTzgdXsg

1. Remove Titan bridging.

2. Remove all jump drives in caps and super caps. Allow them to go thru gates / jump bridges and super cap pilots to dock and get out of their coffins. This will ramp up regional placement of fleets and increase regional fighting. This will return us to the back to the good old days of fighting. It would establish battle lines and increase troop movement. Supers are immune to bubbles but allow the focus beam to fitted to more class of ships but lack the bubble side of the mod.

3. Industrial ships can jump in a region only before having to go thru a regional gate and then jump again. They can not use JB.

4. EGGS, HuBs and all civ building should be made smaller and fit in a jump freighter. Fire gators can go thru a JB but jump freighters can't. Allow stations to go boom tastic

5. Give my black ops the ability to warp cloaked and you can keep the bridge and jump mechanic.

Manny when we were fighting together we use to chat about the good old days and how fun it was building a group and fighting the regional fight. The slow progression of a war and so on. Now do to the atom bomb (super caps and bridging ). The fun of war is gone and we a re now in what we call a Cold War. I hope they fix this soon and get this game back to the gates and re establish the game board of eve and make it big again.