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Why are people leaving? and wjhat can we do about it?
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Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#121 - 2014-07-08 11:13:52 UTC
A lot of it just simply deals with "holier than thou and even holiest than thou" mindsets only found in EVE. There is also an abundance of such in this thread alone, and most of it seems to miss the point of what the OP is trying to talk about.

In the end, new players just need to be aware of the "who you know" social aspect of the game, because that is very big and rather rare in other MMORPGs.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#122 - 2014-07-08 11:27:50 UTC
I don't know if anyone has posted it yet and it's been a while since I had a new alt but something that always struck me as "bad" is that when people are waiting for essential skills to train as a newbie and ask the rookie help what to do in the meantime, there are a lot of "just play another game" responses.

That doesnt seem a healthy way to go.

I realise vets and even non-newbies know there is usually something to do, but this perception is damaging (and arguably TRUE for a legit newbie. We think nothing of a 5 hour skill train, which is what it takes to get a MWD fitted, but a new player, that's kinda sucky.

The realisation that EVE is "the long game" doesnt come until later.

Anyway, just my 2isk. Hopefully not lost in the guaranteed handbag slapping of "nerf null, nerf high sec" I'm sure went on.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#123 - 2014-07-08 11:36:02 UTC
Ala Bamma wrote:

If CCP can funnel noobs to GOOD corps with helpful vets, longterm retention will hit likely 80%+, just "getting skillpoints faster" doesnt help the noob it HURTS them, because all of a sudden they have all these skillpoints thinking they ready for "that nice T2 ship" and end up losing way mroe isk than necessary for a simple noobie mistake in gameplay.

first problem. eve vets are assholes.... no other argument needed.
Second problem. good corps dont recruit noobs
Third problem. usually (not always but usually) noob corps are led by noobs, which get their ass kicked by troll corps that have spent five years in hisec.

Solution. Let's actually use the fking concord we pay an assload of taxes for. in systems that make a lot of isk off reprocessing/ratting/ carebear stuff, have a larger presence of concord. I have been thinking about adjustable security zones since the day I joined. It would shake up hisec... like a lot. and even make carebaring much harder because the stuff you had in that .9 system yesterday are now in a .5, or even a .2 if we can fix FW and tie system security into that somehow.


Two things

Vets aren't assholes they're. Just . interested in fewer portions of the game (having started and left the boring content).

Also a more logical criminal system where being a criminal in the wrong section of space flags you as red not just -5 but actually -2 in a 0.8 system being red flashy would help to create an incentive to be more selective about activities and areas to operate or live in.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#124 - 2014-07-08 11:41:39 UTC
afkalt wrote:
I don't know if anyone has posted it yet and it's been a while since I had a new alt but something that always struck me as "bad" is that when people are waiting for essential skills to train as a newbie and ask the rookie help what to do in the meantime, there are a lot of "just play another game" responses.

That doesnt seem a healthy way to go.

I realise vets and even non-newbies know there is usually something to do, but this perception is damaging (and arguably TRUE for a legit newbie. We think nothing of a 5 hour skill train, which is what it takes to get a MWD fitted, but a new player, that's kinda sucky.

The realisation that EVE is "the long game" doesnt come until later.

Anyway, just my 2isk. Hopefully not lost in the guaranteed handbag slapping of "nerf null, nerf high sec" I'm sure went on.


If I were ccp I would temp ban those people. Lots of reasons. Not helping the player to learn the game. Encouraging them to quit. Not providing them with useful knowledge. Not even giving an invitation or reference to something like brave newbies.

How does telling them to play another game simply because of a skill train period help anyone? And this banning should be extended to select members of the forums too. These people whom pretend to be clever but really just erode the quality of the game through being fundamentally inable to identify and rectify problems a person is experiencing. Telling someone who went through the effort to start eve to leave is unconscionable. Let them work it out on their own.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#125 - 2014-07-08 11:58:00 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Mike Voidstar wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Mike, you would get a better response if you didn't include words such as bullies, grieving, gankbear and psychopath. You may see issue with aspects of the game, but all I see are those words and it makes me want to dismiss you out of hand.


Perhaps Mags. We certainly don't share playstyles, and have little common ground beyond enjoying different aspects of the same game.

Given the sheer oceans of bile and vitriol anyone not absolutely dedicated to making targets into victims must endure, I am pretty mild in my description of the players and playstyles that make up the bulk of the active posting community.

I doubt you can deny that the game not only tolerates but openly welcomes players and playstyles that would be considered griefing in other games. People leave EVE because the game is set up to treat fun and success as part of the zero sum win/lose equation. A significant portion of the players get their fun by ruining the day of another player. They actively steal the fun of their target, and then wonder why those people no longer want to play. In real life those who enjoy victimizing other people are called bullies. The activity of consistantly ruining the fun of another's game is called griefing. Gankbears gank at no meaningful risk to themselves (their fun and reward are the tears of their victim, the ships, ISK, and sec status mean nothing to them, so they risk nothing of value in their activity). People who operate without understanding or care of right and wrong are psychpaths, and if that is how you play your character then that is how your character should be described.

EVE has an incredibly toxic culture within its playerbase that has been cultivated for years. The negative aspects have been advantaged by the ruleset for a long time, and retention will not improve unless some balance is created in such a way as to control the toxic elements and players by giving some meaningful reward for positive play and playstyles.

All I'm saying is, sure I know we don't share playstyles. But the use of such terms, tends to negate the message one is trying to put forward.

I know as I have done it a couple of times and it will simply illicit bad responses.

Eve has always been about conflict and allowing everyone to interfere with everyone else's game play. It's as close to a sandbox game we can get without it being unplayable chaos. To then call those taking part in aspects you don't and expect CCP to remove then or nerf them out of the game, seems to me rather naive.

I don't start playing chess, then complain about how certain pieces are allowed to move. I learn how to move them in a way that will outsmart my opponent. If I do, I'm sure they would feel rather frustrated. But that doesn't then mean they or I, should request a change.
I wouldn't also label anyone playing chess a murderer. But it's goal is regicide.

The only toxic nature I have seen in Eve, is through either local chat or Evemails, after killing someone. Should I care for them? Or should I care for those that have asked questions after and wanted to know how to avoid dying in future?

You talk of risk and claim gankers have little. But isn't this also the responsibility of those being ganked? That's at the very heart of the sandbox nature of Eve, CCP want pilots to create content and add their own protection. It's also an MMO, so it stands to reason that people will join together to shoot others. So therefore shouldn't those being shot stand together to stop it?
You wish for them to have more risk, give them what you wish for. Many are already shoot on sight, although there are other ways to add risk.

I've never understood the idea that other people in Eve, shouldn't be allowed to interfere with or as you say 'ruin' another players game. It's an MMORPG that specialised in PvP in practically every aspect of game play. One could even argue that the counter in ship spinning, turned that into a competitive thing.
So why play Eve if all you want is that solo experience? You can even get it here, if you really wanted. The test server would be ideal for such purposes.


We agree on that point. I don't want any freedom nerfed. All I am saying is that the rules are tilted in favor of those who wish to take from others. I would like to see incentives in place for those who would aid and support each other.

Give standings more of a role in the world. Those with high standing with a pirate faction should default to those npc corps instead of empire corps. Give anti-pirates their own Npc Corp that makes those two groups always at war.

There isn't much the PvE runner can do to increase the gankers risk or reduce his own further. No significant price exists to punish bad behavior. Without meaningful penalties that can be applied to losing the fight on both sides the incentive will rest on the side having fun at the expense of others.

I don't seek to limit the activity of anyone, I want options to inflict meaningful damage upon those who currently enjoy a risk free environment at the expense of their prey. I don't want to be a victim, nor do I want to join the predators in victimizing others. If they don't care about blowing up I want to be able to do something to them that they do care about, or at least have the chance for that fight to reward me with something of value to me-- their continued absence or some temporary security, or something that lets me enjoy my playstyle just as they enjoy theirs at my expense.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#126 - 2014-07-08 12:10:21 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
afkalt wrote:
I don't know if anyone has posted it yet and it's been a while since I had a new alt but something that always struck me as "bad" is that when people are waiting for essential skills to train as a newbie and ask the rookie help what to do in the meantime, there are a lot of "just play another game" responses.

That doesnt seem a healthy way to go.

I realise vets and even non-newbies know there is usually something to do, but this perception is damaging (and arguably TRUE for a legit newbie. We think nothing of a 5 hour skill train, which is what it takes to get a MWD fitted, but a new player, that's kinda sucky.

The realisation that EVE is "the long game" doesnt come until later.

Anyway, just my 2isk. Hopefully not lost in the guaranteed handbag slapping of "nerf null, nerf high sec" I'm sure went on.


If I were ccp I would temp ban those people. Lots of reasons. Not helping the player to learn the game. Encouraging them to quit. Not providing them with useful knowledge. Not even giving an invitation or reference to something like brave newbies.

How does telling them to play another game simply because of a skill train period help anyone? And this banning should be extended to select members of the forums too. These people whom pretend to be clever but really just erode the quality of the game through being fundamentally inable to identify and rectify problems a person is experiencing. Telling someone who went through the effort to start eve to leave is unconscionable. Let them work it out on their own.


Well, ISD volunteer in that channel, perhaps one of them might swing by here and confirm if it is still ... I'll use the phrase "not uncommon".

I do have some sympathy for it though, as the ONLY people in there are <30day'ers and ISD. I think that for many newbies, do something else whilst grid skill X trains to IV so you can fit your ship is a fairly valid answer for them. They have no perspective on the game and to be entirely honest and fair - it's the first few weeks, they're not going to have one. ISD aren't there for that: They are bombarded by things like how do I get more CPU/grid/why cant I fit X,Y or Z/where's my mission item/where's the item I bought/stfu with the begging. There's not much in the way of "what do I DO" because of the learning curve, people haven't got that far in the thought process yet, they're still trying to fit their ships.

It's not an easy problem to solve because most people will have dim and distant memories of their new days. For example ship fitting, vets know what to do, how to eek on meta and can afford that no problems but these people dont have that.

So, yeah I have some sympathy but to my mind it is definitely a problem.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#127 - 2014-07-08 12:23:53 UTC
I don't buy the 'Wait until you can fly x y or z ship rubbish, you can take part in all sorts of stuff in cheap ships. In fact a new player *needs* to be learning how to actually use the skills they are training by flying around in cheap ships and seeing how they and the game mechanics handle. Simply sitting and waiting means that the player learns absolutely nothing in the meantime.

I still stand by my view that I think the PvE aspects should be improved since those 80% of people who play in and pay to play in hisec areas are catered for as well as those in PvP centric regions. I would prefer a better balance and to see the PvE elements used to lead players towards making the jump to lower sec regions as I believe that would be much more successful in changing the hisec/othersec balance of players. Those in hisec need to have a reason to try other areas, something needs to appeal to te side of them that wants the adventure, to see new things, to go through other bits of lore etc.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#128 - 2014-07-08 12:27:32 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
You're missing my point, though I can see why. In the early days there is no such option, it's not about waiting for a cruiser/BC - it's about being able to put guns and a tank on!

What reminded me of it is I'm training an alt right now and to even fit a MWD, it's over 5 hours waiting time. Now, that's a pretty basic prop mod. 20 hours for grid management IV. Ditto CPU management. MAPC? Another 2 hours.

Now, obviously to older players this is NOTHING but so someone 2 hours into a game? That's a different beast.

It's only understandable for a few days at most - but considering those are your FIRST days they can be a fairly formative experience.


Edit: To be clear I do not think skill training needs to change - I do not know how to solve this issue, but I feel it remains an issue.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2014-07-08 12:32:29 UTC
OP: you seem to be with the impression that the game needs to change to attract players to stay. I suggest that instead the game needs better ways to reveal its qualities to new players. If they don't like it they can leave but it's sad how many players quit who would have stayed had they known...

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#130 - 2014-07-08 14:37:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
OP: you seem to be with the impression that the game needs to change to attract players to stay. I suggest that instead the game needs better ways to reveal its qualities to new players. If they don't like it they can leave but it's sad how many players quit who would have stayed had they known...


I completely agree. Currently the new player experience doesn't drive home how different EVE is from other MMOs and allows for too many misinformed assumptions about the mechanics and culture of the game to be assumed. It needs work to better inform new players what it is that makes EVE truly unique and interesting in the broad sphere of online games.

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

The Fate of Forum Alts

Guaranteed Success
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#131 - 2014-07-08 15:24:44 UTC
To make an alt it takes a day. Log in set up training skill queue for 24 hours log off and come back the next day at the same time. Once the first 24 hours is over than an alt can be useful before that not so much.


Does any one know if the tutorial still tells a new player that he should equip what he finds to fill the slots on his ship. Along with you can avoid repair fees if you dock equip reppers then undock to rep yourself? those where 2 things that I always found strange.

Ala Bamma
Virtual Democracy
#132 - 2014-07-09 00:22:10 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
To make an alt it takes a day. Log in set up training skill queue for 24 hours log off and come back the next day at the same time. Once the first 24 hours is over than an alt can be useful before that not so much.


Does any one know if the tutorial still tells a new player that he should equip what he finds to fill the slots on his ship. Along with you can avoid repair fees if you dock equip reppers then undock to rep yourself? those where 2 things that I always found strange.


the problem with the new player, and im talking day 1 never played before new player, is they don't know anything. Honestly this is where the devs should be looking. Have a friend or relative take up the game and see what they go through. I honestly dont care if it becomes wow or not, I'm simply trying to address the bs noob griefers with this one. I played for a while, and it has always been a great game for me. I still think there should be an incentive for having a titan in system and fleet for you, something like an extra 2 slots per squad or something like that if they are in the FC spot, in system, and on grid. I wanna see more super deaths then builds, that is what gets me going. B-r sucked honestly simply because nobody could get close to the system without getting gate ganked. It is easy for a group to go balls deep when they have the numbers, but in all honestly the blob is ruining pvp content, which at this point is what a lot of newer players come to the game for. Hopping in a frig after 1 day without knowing a thing about slingshot, tackle, sensor damps and the like is what the new player experience should focus on. I would even support a PVP free zone for new players where they can go and learn without asshats trying to steal their stuff or ruin their fun. In all honesty non consensual pvp helps the game a lot, but from what I have seen it hurts just the same. I have donated isk to freighter pilots that lost JF on purpose simply because they know the feel bad factor will net them much more in donations. It honestly seems like the darkest and meanest MMO players end up in this area.
I would even like to see a station merc service set up where you can have someone whacked when they dock up. :P would make griefers rethink their strategy when someone has to pay 100isk/ skill point to whack them next time they dock up in amarr space. Clones get expensive and revenge is always best when the other guy doesnt even see it coming
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#133 - 2014-07-09 01:10:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Nevyn Auscent
Op & most others have missed the fact that scamming/griefing newbies in newbie systems is already bannable.
If people are doing it, then report. The report system works.

Other than that, a complete PVE revamp that makes dynamic missions (Average mission income is fine btw, lvl 1 & 2 actually need increasing, only a few outliers like SOE missions done with blitz methods have any issues), so that you aren't doing the same named mission/anomaly/signature 50/500/5000 times in an obvious grind, but simply 'working' an area of space. Also the whole 'less NPC's, tougher NPC's' plan implemented so that more PvP techniques and working together become more useful in PvE. Ewar is pretty useless when there tend to be 20 NPC's vs 1 Player for example.
Xocomo
State War Academy
Caldari State
#134 - 2014-07-09 01:30:49 UTC
It's a few things really. First CCP inability to deliver on promises of new features, and lack of coherent design focus in regards to ship balance and mechanic changes. Essentially no new content for almost a year now (ghost sites and 3 ships an expansion do not make.) Plus I worry these "mini" expansions will take the amount of time and be even further paired down on features. Obligatory mention of 0.0 stagnation though I feel CCP is only partially to blame for this situation. Additionally the economic situation is out of control. I remember reading a blog by the CCP ministry of truth and information saying plex prices were stable over time even as they hit an unthinkable 600m high. Now they are approaching 800m is there really no inflation CCP? People will say this is natural market pressure; however, it is a direct result of massive flows of isk entering the economy from incursions imo. Lastly with the advent of the CSM our beloved CCP has compromised their design vision to appease these people who realistically only represent the richest and most organized part of the player-base (sov blocks) who by percent are the vast minority. These factors combined foment ragequits and burn outs.

People will say I'm being negative; however, please see eve-offline.net.

It is plain to see the weekly averages have consistently trended significantly downward recently. This is a very worrying trend. We're seen PCU averages last seen in 2008. You can't spin this or troll it. The player-base is leaving the game without a drastic change I think eve will be done before the 3rd decade.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#135 - 2014-07-09 01:58:13 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:

I don't want any freedom nerfed.


This post, and much of your posting history, consists of you arguing for freedom to be taken away from people whom you are opposed to.

So that sentence is a lie.

Quote:

There isn't much the PvE runner can do to increase the gankers risk or reduce his own further.


Wrong.

Quote:

No significant price exists to punish bad behavior. Without meaningful penalties that can be applied to losing the fight on both sides the incentive will rest on the side having fun at the expense of others.


Again, wrong.


Quote:

I don't seek to limit the activity of anyone, I want options to inflict meaningful damage upon those who currently enjoy a risk free environment at the expense of their prey.


By nerfing the ability of gankers to inflict meaningful damage on people who currently enjoy the risk free environment of highsec.

This is really freaking funny, hopefully you intended it that way.


Quote:

I don't want to be a victim, nor do I want to join the predators in victimizing others. If they don't care about blowing up I want to be able to do something to them that they do care about, or at least have the chance for that fight to reward me with something of value to me-- their continued absence or some temporary security, or something that lets me enjoy my playstyle just as they enjoy theirs at my expense.


Then just do it already, quit crying about how they have to be nerfed before you will get off your fourth point of contact to actually play the game.

There are ways to do this. I know people who do this extensively, and I have done it myself in the past. You seem to think that just because most people who publicly try it fail(after which there is much crowing and laughter on our part), that there are no real ways.

But that's not why.

It's because the typical gank victim is a bad player, and the typical gankers are not. That's why the "victims" so often fail at their counter ganking attempts, and that's why die so much in the first place. Because if you actually know how and bother to play the game correctly, gankers are less of a worry than station trading taxes.

Ganking does not need nerfed. Stupidity does not need buffed. Laziness does not need to be encouraged. People just need to buckle down and put some effort into getting the things they say they want. But then it's highsec players we're talking about, so that might be asking too much. Which is what this is all about, I suppose.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#136 - 2014-07-09 02:11:03 UTC
Xocomo wrote:
It's a few things really. First CCP inability to deliver on promises of new features, and lack of coherent design focus in regards to ship balance and mechanic changes. Essentially no new content for almost a year now (ghost sites and 3 ships an expansion do not make.) Plus I worry these "mini" expansions will take the amount of time and be even further paired down on features. Obligatory mention of 0.0 stagnation though I feel CCP is only partially to blame for this situation. Additionally the economic situation is out of control. I remember reading a blog by the CCP ministry of truth and information saying plex prices were stable over time even as they hit an unthinkable 600m high. Now they are approaching 800m is there really no inflation CCP? People will say this is natural market pressure; however, it is a direct result of massive flows of isk entering the economy from incursions imo. Lastly with the advent of the CSM our beloved CCP has compromised their design vision to appease these people who realistically only represent the richest and most organized part of the player-base (sov blocks) who by percent are the vast minority. These factors combined foment ragequits and burn outs.

People will say I'm being negative; however, please see eve-offline.net.

It is plain to see the weekly averages have consistently trended significantly downward recently. This is a very worrying trend. We're seen PCU averages last seen in 2008. You can't spin this or troll it. The player-base is leaving the game without a drastic change I think eve will be done before the 3rd decade.

Straight up wrong on most of your points.
Somewhere close to 50% of Isk in the game enters from Bounties, of which the lions share is Null Sec Bounties. Incursions are no more than 10% of the Isk per month, even on a high month. Wormholes are a larger source of raw isk than Incursions.
Additionally plex prices are not inflation. They are supply & demand, with new additional demands places on them. A much better clue for inflation is ore/mineral market trends when changes in mineral requirements are removed from the equation, (Since that changes supply & demand). And those hold steady when you eliminate the changes caused by mineral requirement changes. (I.E. all the T1 tiericide changes increased mineral usage, so obviously demand increases moving prices, but they then stabilised each time.)

Finally on the topic of expansions..... we are about to see what could be one of the most game changing 'expansions' in the history of EVE with Crius, with all the industry changes..... and it's not even billed as an expansion, just an update. Yet the potential effects of it are huge.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#137 - 2014-07-09 03:42:53 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:


There was not supposed to be the huge gulf between PvE and PvP, each is supposed to drive the other. But at some point they went astray in development. The world fell by the wayside in the interest of catering to the hard core grief crowd. There is next to no support for positive playsyles, PvP is almost purely geared for a predator/victim engagement.



CCP Solomon wrote:
the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built


I agree with u that some PvE is lacking. However this was never intended to be a balanced orderly universe. It was always intended as a chaotic dystopia like; mad max, a clock work orange, book of eli, robo cop, total recall, the running man, judge dredd, the fallout series etc etc. The predator/victim survival of the fittest engagement that is so prevalent in EVE is prevalent in all such settings. Crime is rife, governments are corrupt, the innocent are preyed upon.

Putting that to one side, the real reason so many PvE players are such victims is because they never prepare for PvP. CCP make it quite clear that PvP is not optional in this game. If another player wants to PvP ur ship, they can and will. If u dnt prepare for that, then whos fault is it really? U dont have to be a bad guy, but u should learn to defend urself or at least mitigate ur losses.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#138 - 2014-07-09 04:02:48 UTC
As mentioned in this years fanfest, a large part of the population that stays for a few months is of the "upgrade your Raven" type. To paraphrase, I believe the statement was along the lines of " Something like 50% of players quit within their first month, 40% stay on for a few months to upgrade their raven, and 10% join a corp and stay for the long term." You see these "upgrade your raven" types running missions and incursions with bling fit ships. Many of them choose not to pvp for one reason or another.

An arena with actual rules may give them something to strive for, goals if you will in a more accessible pvp environment. I know there is strong opposition to the idea for many reasons, and to be fair many of those reasons are quite good. But it might be worth considering all the same.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#139 - 2014-07-09 07:29:27 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
As mentioned in this years fanfest, a large part of the population that stays for a few months is of the "upgrade your Raven" type. To paraphrase, I believe the statement was along the lines of " Something like 50% of players quit within their first month, 40% stay on for a few months to upgrade their raven, and 10% join a corp and stay for the long term." You see these "upgrade your raven" types running missions and incursions with bling fit ships. Many of them choose not to pvp for one reason or another.

An arena with actual rules may give them something to strive for, goals if you will in a more accessible pvp environment. I know there is strong opposition to the idea for many reasons, and to be fair many of those reasons are quite good. But it might be worth considering all the same.


Instead of catering to their false equation of EVE to other MMOs why don't we better educate them that this is not like other MMOs? As I've iterated in links 1 & 2 of this post.

Carebears equate highsec to a PVP safe zone. While it is kind of accurate, one of the reasons you see so much rage when they are ganked is because they feel betrayed by the game mechanics. In reality the game mechanics never betrayed them and were working as explained and intended.

Now that's not to say you can ever get rid of the bear mentality of never accepting risk as part of their game experience, but it goes a long way if they go in fully understanding that they will get blown up and die no matter where they are in the game space if they provide sufficient incentive for a hostile pilot to do so. That it is part of the game experience and it's not a rage inducing experience if you account for the risk and plan accordingly.

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#140 - 2014-07-09 08:35:28 UTC
Don't talk about bears being soft or stupid when the environment they come from deliberately creates doe eyed targets. A good many level 4 missions are taxing on new players. Having fit only tank and damage mods in a whackamole galley doesn't a pvp make. Ccp could do with making kill missions or flash points or whatever. One or two npcs with sansha style ewar and stats. But this has all been said before. Bla bla bla ambivalence setting in.