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Just wonder will you push all necessary skills to lv5? First post
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Socrates' psalmody

Jiao Yu EA Inc

Likes received: 0

#1 - 2014-07-09 07:59:24 UTC

This is what I've got for my messy main, if I push all existing skills to lv5 Big smile

Thermic Armor Compensation V
Hull Upgrades V
EM Armor Compensation V
Explosive Armor Compensation V
Kinetic Armor Compensation V
Caldari Drone Specialization IV
Drone Durability IV
Drone Durability V
Drone Interfacing V
Drone Navigation V
Drone Sharpshooting V
Gallente Drone Specialization V
Minmatar Drone Specialization III
Minmatar Drone Specialization IV
Minmatar Drone Specialization V
Propulsion Jamming IV
Propulsion Jamming V
Advanced Weapon Upgrades V
Energy Grid Upgrades IV
Energy Grid Upgrades V
Nanite Operation III
Nanite Operation IV
Nanite Operation V
Thermodynamics III
Thermodynamics IV
Thermodynamics V
Controlled Bursts V
Medium Artillery Specialization I
Medium Artillery Specialization II
Medium Artillery Specialization III
Medium Artillery Specialization IV
Medium Artillery Specialization V
Medium Autocannon Specialization II
Medium Autocannon Specialization III
Medium Autocannon Specialization IV
Medium Autocannon Specialization V
Small Artillery Specialization V
Small Autocannon Specialization V
Small Blaster Specialization V
Small Railgun Specialization III
Small Railgun Specialization IV
Small Railgun Specialization V
Trajectory Analysis V
Bomb Deployment I
Bomb Deployment II
Bomb Deployment III
Bomb Deployment IV
Bomb Deployment V
Guided Missile Precision I
Guided Missile Precision II
Guided Missile Precision III
Guided Missile Precision IV
Guided Missile Precision V
Missile Bombardment V
Missile Projection IV
Missile Projection V
Rapid Launch IV
Rapid Launch V
Target Navigation Prediction IV
Target Navigation Prediction V
Torpedo Specialization IV
Torpedo Specialization V
Warhead Upgrades IV
Warhead Upgrades V
Acceleration Control IV
Acceleration Control V
Afterburner V
Cynosural Field Theory III
Cynosural Field Theory IV
Cynosural Field Theory V
Evasive Maneuvering V
Fuel Conservation IV
Fuel Conservation V
High Speed Maneuvering V
Navigation V
Warp Drive Operation V
Astronautics Rigging I
Astronautics Rigging II
Astronautics Rigging III
Astronautics Rigging IV
Astronautics Rigging V
Projectile Weapon Rigging II
Projectile Weapon Rigging III
Projectile Weapon Rigging IV
Projectile Weapon Rigging V
Shield Rigging II
Shield Rigging III
Shield Rigging IV
Shield Rigging V
EM Shield Compensation IV
EM Shield Compensation V
Explosive Shield Compensation I
Explosive Shield Compensation II
Explosive Shield Compensation III
Explosive Shield Compensation IV
Explosive Shield Compensation V
Kinetic Shield Compensation I
Kinetic Shield Compensation II
Kinetic Shield Compensation III
Kinetic Shield Compensation IV
Kinetic Shield Compensation V
Shield Compensation V
Shield Management V
Shield Operation V
Shield Upgrades IV
Shield Upgrades V
Tactical Shield Manipulation IV
Tactical Shield Manipulation V
Thermic Shield Compensation IV
Thermic Shield Compensation V
Spaceship Command V
Gallente Battleship V
Heavy Assault Cruisers I
Heavy Assault Cruisers II
Heavy Assault Cruisers III
Heavy Assault Cruisers IV
Heavy Assault Cruisers V
Minmatar Battlecruiser V
Minmatar Battleship IV
Minmatar Battleship V
Minmatar Cruiser V
Advanced Target Management II
Advanced Target Management III
Advanced Target Management IV
Advanced Target Management V
Signature Analysis V

61 unique skills, 126 skill levels; Total time: 916 days, 4 hours, 57 minutes, 57 seconds; Completion: 2017/1/10 5:49:59

That is in the year 2014, supposed I do not add new ships to my skill list. Big smile

Of course this is stupid. For most of the skills, reaching lv 4 would give enough effectiveness in that area. So, what skills in my list would not necessary to be at lv 5 eventually, if you were me? Big smile

hmmm......

Yarda Black

The Black Redemption

Likes received: 819

#2 - 2014-07-09 08:07:37 UTC

Tactical shield manipulation. Do 4 and stay there.
EM comp for shields at 5 maybe. Rest is good at 4. Most of the time you will find active hardeners more interesting.

Gun specs are good at 4. 5 will give a 2% increase. You can train an ECM mod skill to 4 in that same time.

Riggingskills are fine at 4 as well. You can train other/new skills to 4 in the same time.

Advanced targetmanagement will be nice at 5 at some point. Not right now tho.

You can train the drone specs to 5. Makes a bit more sense since the update. I would prefer to add Amarr drone spec 4 and use the remaining time to train stuff like heavy or sentry drone operation 5

Yishna Strone

We Aim To MisBehave

Kenshin Shogunate.

Likes received: 7

#3 - 2014-07-09 08:08:17 UTC

Socrates' psalmody wrote:

This is what I've got for my messy main, if I push all existing skills to lv5 Big smile

All the compensations(Thermic/Kin/Exp/Em Armor/Shield Compensations). Lvl 4 in almost every single case is sufficient.
Faction Drone specializations. Do you really want to spend 19 days or so x4 for 2% bonus damage? 4 is enough.

Weapon Specialization 5s. Again, 2% damage for 9 days of training for light, 16 days for medium and 26 days for large?
IV is enough unless you don't have ANY other skills you need to train. Unless you're Chribba. In which case you still have skills you need to train up.
Bomb Deployment 5. Bomb Launcher IIs aren't really that much better than Is. You can launch a bomb 25 seconds faster, and hold more bombs. Woop de doo.

Rigging 5s. Really?

Advanced Target Management 4...Sufficient in almost all cases.

Aralyn Cormallen

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Likes received: 1,324

#4 - 2014-07-09 08:12:50 UTC

Socrates' psalmody wrote:

61 unique skills, 126 skill levels; Total time: 916 days, 4 hours, 57 minutes, 57 seconds; Completion: 2017/1/10 5:49:59

That is in the year 2014, supposed I do not add new ships to my skill list. Big smile

There is definitely a mix of priorities there Shocked

. Obviously ships and guns are good if you are going to be using those ships and guns (but not if your not). Get Advanced Weapon Upgrades done, and I mean now (and some of the other fitting skills too). Some (like Navigation and Hull Upgrades) are going to be so quick to skill up its silly not to. I don't know about Advanced Targetting, but I'm sure someone will point out that only so many ships can target enough targets to make that useful, and odds are, you don't have the skills for those ships, so that should be in the bin. And never touch Tactical Shield Manipulation 5, and any of the [Damage flavour] Shield Compensation skills, ever.

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#5 - 2014-07-09 08:16:05 UTC | Edited by: Tippia

Socrates' psalmody wrote:

This is what I've got for my messy main, if I push all existing skills to lv5 Big smile

Thermic Armor Compensation V
Hull Upgrades V
EM Armor Compensation V
Explosive Armor Compensation V
Kinetic Armor Compensation V
~~Drone Durability V~~
Drone Interfacing V
Drone Navigation V
Drone Sharpshooting V
Gallente Drone Specialization V
Minmatar Drone Specialization V
Propulsion Jamming V
Advanced Weapon Upgrades V
Energy Grid Upgrades V
Nanite Operation V
Thermodynamics V
Controlled Bursts V
Medium Artillery Specialization V
Medium Autocannon Specialization V
Small Artillery Specialization V
Small Autocannon Specialization V
Small Railgun Specialization V
Bomb Deployment V
Guided Missile Precision V
Missile Bombardment V
Missile Projection V
Rapid Launch V
Target Navigation Prediction V
Torpedo Specialization V
Warhead Upgrades V
Acceleration Control V
Afterburner V
Cynosural Field Theory V
Evasive Maneuvering V
Fuel Conservation V
High Speed Maneuvering V
Navigation V
Warp Drive Operation V
Astronautics Rigging V
Projectile Weapon Rigging V
Shield Rigging V
EM Shield Compensation V
Explosive Shield Compensation V
Kinetic Shield Compensation V
Shield Compensation V
Shield Management V
Shield Operation V
Shield Upgrades V
Tactical Shield Manipulation V
Thermic Shield Compensation V
Spaceship Command V
Gallente Battleship V
~~Heavy Assault Cruisers V~~
Minmatar Battlecruiser V
Minmatar Battleship V
Minmatar Cruiser V
Advanced Target Management IV
Advanced Target Management V

…as an afterthought, it would have been easier to just list the few you should keep.
Oh, and never train TSM V — it directly hurts your tanking ability. Likewise, most shield compensation skills are pretty much useless these days outside of some niche fits.

Antihrist Pripravnik

Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity

Stain Neurodiverse Democracy

Likes received: 965

#6 - 2014-07-09 08:19:13 UTC

Socrates' psalmody wrote:

Thermic Armor Compensation V - unless you plan to fly capitals
EM Armor Compensation V - unless you plan to fly capitals
Explosive Armor Compensation V - unless you plan to fly capitals
Kinetic Armor Compensation V - unless you plan to fly capitals

Gallente Drone Specialization V
Minmatar Drone Specialization V

Nanite Operation V

Medium Artillery Specialization V
Medium Autocannon Specialization V
Small Artillery Specialization V
Small Autocannon Specialization V
Small Blaster Specialization V
Small Railgun Specialization V

Bomb Deployment V

Torpedo Specialization V

Astronautics Rigging V
Projectile Weapon Rigging V
Shield Rigging V

EM Shield Compensation V - resistance shield compensation skills are now almost useless
Explosive Shield Compensation V - resistance shield compensation skills are now almost useless
Kinetic Shield Compensation V - resistance shield compensation skills are now almost useless
Thermic Shield Compensation V - resistance shield compensation skills are now almost useless

So, what skills in my list would not necessary to be at lv 5 eventually, if you were me? Big smile

Here you go... Have fun Blink

Republic University Minmatar Republic 1,926
Hasikan Miallok Republic University Minmatar Republic Likes received: 1,926	#7 - 2014-07-09 08:20:51 UTC Spaceship Command V - Marauders, HACs, HICs, Commandshipd, Black Ops and Recons Energy Grid Upgrades V --> Marauders and HACs Advanced Weapon Upgrades V --> Marauders Warp Drive Operation V --. Jump Drives --> Caps and Supers

Viziam Amarr Empire 11,532
James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#8 - 2014-07-09 08:26:14 UTC 5 This thread makes me glad to have a free-spinning scroll wheel. Enjoying the rain today? ;)


Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops Likes received: 27,526	#9 - 2014-07-09 08:28:44 UTC James Amril-Kesh wrote: This thread makes me glad to have a free-spinning scroll wheel. Multi-touch/gesture trackpad — it's good for you.


James Amril-Kesh Viziam Amarr Empire Likes received: 11,532	#10 - 2014-07-09 08:30:28 UTC 1 No they're not, I hate those damn things. Enjoying the rain today? ;)


Antihrist Pripravnik Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity Stain Neurodiverse Democracy Likes received: 965	#11 - 2014-07-09 08:35:05 UTC Tippia wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: This thread makes me glad to have a free-spinning scroll wheel. Multi-touch/gesture trackpad — it's good for you. Well, if we're talking tech... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d6KuiuteIA I've pre-ordered it and got one as soon as they were available

First Flame Syndicate 9
Ehlana Sing First Flame Syndicate Likes received: 9	#12 - 2014-07-09 08:36:05 UTC Tippia wrote: Oh, and never train TSM V — it directly hurts your tanking ability. Likewise, most shield compensation skills are pretty much useless these days outside of some niche fits. Can you just explain that one for me please Tippia, why would it affect the ability to tank?

Mashie Saldana

V0LTA

OnlyFleets.

Likes received: 1,647

#13 - 2014-07-09 08:48:38 UTC

Socrates' psalmody wrote:

Well I'm 11 months away from having all subcap PVP skills to V so go for all of it.

How to win EVE

Tippia

Sunshine and Lollipops

Likes received: 27,526

#14 - 2014-07-09 09:00:11 UTC | Edited by: Tippia

Ehlana Sing wrote:

Tippia wrote:

Oh, and never train TSM V — it directly hurts your tanking ability. Likewise, most shield compensation skills are pretty much useless these days outside of some niche fits.

Can you just explain that one for me please Tippia, why would it affect the ability to tank?

It's a long story. Let's start by noting that the description of the skill is almost completely inaccurate.

TSM does not reduce the chance for bleed-through between shield and armour. It reduces shield uniformity — the threshold below which you start seeing bleed-through. Uniformity exists for all tanking layers: below 25% shield, you start bleeding through to armour; below 25% armour, you start bleeding through to hull (and there's nothing for hull damage to bleed through to).

What this means is that, at TSM IV, you start seeing bleed-through when you go below 5% shield. The probability for this happening is completely unaffected. At TSM V, you don't see it at all (because uniformity is reduced to 0%). This is good, right? No. Because this means that once you are reduced to taking armour damage, your shield regen is almost as low as it can possibly be. If your shields are at ~5%, that shield regen is a fair bit higher. Yes, you're taking damage to your armour, but staying above 0% shields means you gain back a few more shield HP, which they'll eventually have to chew through.

The assumption is often that all armour damage is bad. This is only true if they manage to eat through all your armour and all your hull by way of bleed-through before you've depleted your shields. Unless you somehow magically manage to maintain a stable shield tank at 2–3% shields, this simply won't happen. Conceivably, if you're in a shield-tanked supercap and are receiving mediocre damage, the HP buffer that those few percent represents might be enough to actually last you all the way do death (…if you forgot to fit a suitcase), but that's not a particularly realistic scenario. Granted, the idea that the pitiful passive shield regen you'd get from 2-3% shields would save you is rather unrealistic too… but meh.

At any rate, TSM IV means you end up with (very very marginally) more EHP that the enemy has to shoot through than if you had TSM V. Arguably, the same holds true for TSM III compared to TSM IV, but then you miss out on the T2 hardeners and the higher resists they offer. Those resists make far more of a difference than the few extra HP you might get from the regen in the 5–10% shield region.

Ehlana Sing

First Flame Syndicate

Likes received: 9

#15 - 2014-07-09 09:09:16 UTC

Tippia
It's a long story. Let's start by noting that the description of the skill is almost completely inaccurate.

TSM does not reduce the chance for bleed-through between shield and armour. It reduces [i wrote:

shield uniformity[/i] — the threshold below which you start seeing bleed-through. Uniformity exists for all tanking layers: below 25% shield, you start bleeding through to armour; below 25% armour, you start bleeding through to hull (and there's nothing for hull damage to bleed through to).

What this means is that, at TSM IV, you start seeing bleed-through when you go below 5% shield. The probability for this happening is completely unaffected. At TSM V, you don't see it at all (because uniformity is reduced to 0%). This is good, right? No. Because this means that once you are reduced to taking armour damage, your shield regen is almost as low as it can possibly be. If your shields are at ~5%, that shield regen is a fair bit higher. Yes, you're taking damage to your armour, but staying above 0% shields means you gain back a few more shield HP, which they'll eventually have to chew through.

The assumption is often that all armour damage is bad. This is only true if they manage to eat through all your armour and all your hull by way of bleed-through before you've depleted your shields. Unless you somehow magically manage to maintain a stable shield tank at 2–3% shields, this simply won't happen. Conceivably, if you're in a shield-tanked supercap and are receiving mediocre damage, the HP buffer that those few percent represents might be enough to actually last you all the way do death (…if you forgot to fit a suitcase), but that's not a particularly realistic scenario. Granted, the idea that the pitiful passive shield regen you'd get from 2-3% shields would save you is rather unrealistic too… but meh.

OK thanks for that, I did look up a few threads about it too but that's probably the clearest explanation I'd found so far.

I'd trained TSM V so long ago I had to check if I had done it already but at least now I know more about it for future use Smile

Zimmy Zeta

Perkone

Caldari State

Likes received: 60,166

#16 - 2014-07-09 09:11:59 UTC | Edited by: Zimmy Zeta

~~Thermic Armor Compensation V~~
Hull Upgrades V Attention

~~EM Armor Compensation V~~
Explosive Armor Compensation V
Kinetic Armor Compensation V
~~Drone Durability V~~
Drone Interfacing V
Drone Navigation V
Drone Sharpshooting V
Gallente Drone Specialization V
Minmatar Drone Specialization V
Propulsion Jamming V
Advanced Weapon Upgrades V
Energy Grid Upgrades V Attention

Nanite Operation V
Thermodynamics V
Controlled Bursts V
Medium Artillery Specialization V
Medium Autocannon Specialization V
Small Artillery Specialization V
Small Autocannon Specialization V
Small Railgun Specialization V
Bomb Deployment V
Guided Missile Precision V
Missile Bombardment V
~~Missile Projection V~~
Rapid Launch V
Target Navigation Prediction V
Torpedo Specialization V
Warhead Upgrades V
Acceleration Control V
Afterburner V
Cynosural Field Theory V
Evasive Maneuvering V
Fuel Conservation V
High Speed Maneuvering V
Navigation V
Warp Drive Operation V
Astronautics Rigging V
Projectile Weapon Rigging V
Shield Rigging V
EM Shield Compensation V
Explosive Shield Compensation V
Kinetic Shield Compensation V
Shield Compensation V
Shield Management V
Shield Operation V
Shield Upgrades V
Tactical Shield Manipulation V
Thermic Shield Compensation V
Spaceship Command V
Gallente Battleship V
~~Heavy Assault Cruisers V~~
Minmatar Battlecruiser V
Minmatar Battleship V
Minmatar Cruiser V
Advanced Target Management IV
Advanced Target Management V

I slightly modified Tippia's list and bolded the skills you should train ASAP, mostly essential fitting skills.
Also, I loved to experiment with strikethrough-text.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

ISD Community Communications Liaisons ISD Alliance 4,696
ISD Ezwal ISD Community Communications Liaisons ISD Alliance Likes received: 4,696	#17 - 2014-07-09 09:20:45 UTC This thread has been moved to Skill Discussions. ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Jeanne-Luise Argenau

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Likes received: 153

#18 - 2014-07-09 09:47:53 UTC

chiming in because of compensation skills,

if u use passive mods alot it is worth training them to 5. As example i like to run cap injected mission ships and for that its in my experience better to run amplifiers for cap reasons that means shield resist comp 5 plays an important role to make it useable fit. Armor Compensation skills i would always recomand to train to 5 as nano platings and eanm get effected by it.

Daniel Plain

Doomheim

Likes received: 2,211

#19 - 2014-07-09 17:02:53 UTC

Tippia wrote:

Ehlana Sing wrote:

Tippia wrote:

Oh, and never train TSM V — it directly hurts your tanking ability. Likewise, most shield compensation skills are pretty much useless these days outside of some niche fits.

Can you just explain that one for me please Tippia, why would it affect the ability to tank?

i have heard somewhere that the bleed through damage is added on top of the regular damage you take, so you take more in total than you would with compensation skills trained to V. not sure if it is true though nd too lazy to test it. does anyone have definite first hand info on that?

I should buy an Ishtar.

Tau Cabalander

Retirement Retreat

Working Stiffs

Likes received: 6,913

#20 - 2014-07-09 23:33:09 UTC

Daniel Plain wrote:

It does not do additional damage. I think I've posted this in nearly every thread that TSM comes up in over the past 5 years.

Example: Tactical Shield Manipulation

Skill Discussions

Jiao Yu EA Inc

The Black Redemption

We Aim To MisBehave

Kenshin Shogunate.

Deep Core Mining Inc.

Caldari State

Sunshine and Lollipops

Cultural Enrichment and Synergy of Diversity

Stain Neurodiverse Democracy

Republic University

Minmatar Republic

Viziam

Amarr Empire

First Flame Syndicate

V0LTA

OnlyFleets.

Perkone

Caldari State

ISD Community Communications Liaisons

ISD Alliance

Brutor Tribe

Minmatar Republic

Doomheim

Retirement Retreat

Working Stiffs