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[Idea] Cyno-less Jump capability

Author
Mashka Cybertrona
Imperial Dawn.
#1 - 2014-07-08 12:24:22 UTC
With the new "power projection thread" in full swing I wanted to separate this idea in the hopes of drawing opinions regarding this proposed mechanic.

Simply put, allow any jump capable ship to use the in-game capital navigation tool (you have to bind a key for it) to allow them to jump to systems instead of cyno use, This kind of jump would use the sun as jump point.

Why?
it puts capitals that move at risk.

Current senario for moving down a cyno chain;
Jump, dock, undock, repeat.

The existing mechanics not only allow practically instantaneous travel, it allows for virtually 100% safe instantaneous travel. What I propose gives people the option to make mistakes, Do you scout the systems or just jump blindly? It also opens the door for capital choke points which can be camped similar to conventional gates.

Just a small Idea :P

Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2014-07-08 13:03:06 UTC
The idea is not bad. There should be several options for capital ships to do FTL.

I don't know if "Jumping to Star" is a good one though. I fancy that idea of using the Stars, hands down (also had that idea in earlier suggestions of mine), but I have doubts that cap pilots would really use it - and if, they'd only abuse as a swifter way to overpower any opposing forces that may not have such.


Counter proposal:
Instead, I'd say more of a Blind-Jump as several had suggested over time, with the small twist of the server randomly tossing you somewhere in the system around a random xxx AU radius or so. You can toss your fighters/fighter bombers around, but you'd be a sitting duck for some 5 mins. The other guys should have the time probe you down.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#3 - 2014-07-08 13:07:38 UTC
Destination locations could be generated the same way planetary launches are generated on a planet. So you end up somewhere close to the star and not in a predictable location and not together with any other ships that may jump into the system, too. Anyone waiting for caps to jump in can hit analyse on the probes set around the star and have a hit on you in seconds. It would provide a risk/reward balance.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#4 - 2014-07-08 13:26:23 UTC
So you want to turn power projection from an account-bound option (requires a character online with cynosural field operation skill and properly fit ship (even if it is a noob ship), to an option that has no such limitation and allows them to jump to literally every system in range with absolutely no effort?

Hell no.

Idiots will die in droves, which is good. But the good players will abuse the crap out of this.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#5 - 2014-07-08 13:38:18 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
So you want to turn power projection from an account-bound option (requires a character online with cynosural field operation skill and properly fit ship (even if it is a noob ship), to an option that has no such limitation and allows them to jump to literally every system in range with absolutely no effort?

Hell no.

Idiots will die in droves, which is good. But the good players will abuse the crap out of this.

It's a game.

One of the key points to me, is that we don't shelter the idiots, we teach them through experiencing the consequences of being stupid.

If everyone abuses it, then I believe we have balance. It is perverse, to some views, but still effective.
sci0gon
Kaira Innovations
#6 - 2014-07-08 13:52:49 UTC
Mashka Cybertrona wrote:
Simply put, allow any jump capable ship to use the in-game capital navigation tool (you have to bind a key for it) to allow them to jump to systems instead of cyno use, This kind of jump would use the sun as jump point.


been playing bsg lately?

they have something similar there already, as well a similar kind of skilling as is done on eve, might cause either company to flare up with a lawsuit for copyright infringement.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-07-08 15:28:01 UTC
I don't see a problem with capitals jumping to the sun without help. I think they should all land at the sun beacon so that it can be camped and/or bubbled to trap them when they arrive.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#8 - 2014-07-08 15:40:49 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I don't see a problem with capitals jumping to the sun without help. I think they should all land at the sun beacon so that it can be camped and/or bubbled to trap them when they arrive.

A simple yet elegant solution.

Systems with players willing to make the effort can easily maintain a 'Sun Guard' posting.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#9 - 2014-07-08 15:50:37 UTC
cyno's still work? as in this would just be an alternative if one was wanting to gamble?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#10 - 2014-07-08 15:59:18 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
cyno's still work? as in this would just be an alternative if one was wanting to gamble?

Just my opinion, but like anything else in EVE, if you choose to operate solo or simply with less help on this detail, you can and should be able to do so.
The additional risk present for solo or small group activity is an expected thing.

Add in to this, jumping caps can use this to have a different style of help, in the form of more dedicated support clearing the LZ, not a cyno ship specifically taking the place of a better fighting option.
(Be it fitting choices or actual ship hull for cyno use itself)
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#11 - 2014-07-08 16:03:43 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
cyno's still work? as in this would just be an alternative if one was wanting to gamble?

Just my opinion, but like anything else in EVE, if you choose to operate solo or simply with less help on this detail, you can and should be able to do so.
The additional risk present for solo or small group activity is an expected thing.

Add in to this, jumping caps can use this to have a different style of help, in the form of more dedicated support clearing the LZ, not a cyno ship specifically taking the place of a better fighting option.
(Be it fitting choices or actual ship hull for cyno use itself)





I'm still not sure if a normal cyno would work and this addition is just that an addition or is this the only way to jump caps?


Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#12 - 2014-07-08 16:15:09 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
cyno's still work? as in this would just be an alternative if one was wanting to gamble?

Just my opinion, but like anything else in EVE, if you choose to operate solo or simply with less help on this detail, you can and should be able to do so.
The additional risk present for solo or small group activity is an expected thing.

Add in to this, jumping caps can use this to have a different style of help, in the form of more dedicated support clearing the LZ, not a cyno ship specifically taking the place of a better fighting option.
(Be it fitting choices or actual ship hull for cyno use itself)





I'm still not sure if a normal cyno would work and this addition is just that an addition or is this the only way to jump caps?




I've always wondered why there even needed to be this "cyno alt" person in a noob ship with a lightbulb equipped and water in their hull to "shine a light" for a capital to lock on and jump to. It would just be simpler. Capital locks onto a system, spools their drive, then jumps.

If the system is a sov owned system and the owners have a Jump Portal Generator in a pos, the person would jump to that. If not, just randomly in the system (nearby some celestial, but the sun's probably optimal). This would not stop people from using an alt to scout the system, this just would not require them to have a cyno alt (or in some cases, several dozen) just to jump a ship. Afraid a system in camped, ask your buddy to check it. If its clear, target the system and jump your boat.

Yea the location is random. Yes you run the risk of losing the ship, but you are no longer required to maintain this chain of cyno people just to move your carrier/freighter/supercap around in.

I just found this "you need a cyno alt" to move a capital silly. A scout should be the only thing you need if you want to move your ship around safely, not some sub 900,000 skill point character in a noob ship with a lightbulb attached.

Yaay!!!!

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#13 - 2014-07-08 18:19:42 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
cyno's still work? as in this would just be an alternative if one was wanting to gamble?

Just my opinion, but like anything else in EVE, if you choose to operate solo or simply with less help on this detail, you can and should be able to do so.
The additional risk present for solo or small group activity is an expected thing.

Add in to this, jumping caps can use this to have a different style of help, in the form of more dedicated support clearing the LZ, not a cyno ship specifically taking the place of a better fighting option.
(Be it fitting choices or actual ship hull for cyno use itself)





I'm still not sure if a normal cyno would work and this addition is just that an addition or is this the only way to jump caps?




I've always wondered why there even needed to be this "cyno alt" person in a noob ship with a lightbulb equipped and water in their hull to "shine a light" for a capital to lock on and jump to. It would just be simpler. Capital locks onto a system, spools their drive, then jumps.

If the system is a sov owned system and the owners have a Jump Portal Generator in a pos, the person would jump to that. If not, just randomly in the system (nearby some celestial, but the sun's probably optimal). This would not stop people from using an alt to scout the system, this just would not require them to have a cyno alt (or in some cases, several dozen) just to jump a ship. Afraid a system in camped, ask your buddy to check it. If its clear, target the system and jump your boat.

Yea the location is random. Yes you run the risk of losing the ship, but you are no longer required to maintain this chain of cyno people just to move your carrier/freighter/supercap around in.

I just found this "you need a cyno alt" to move a capital silly. A scout should be the only thing you need if you want to move your ship around safely, not some sub 900,000 skill point character in a noob ship with a lightbulb attached.



cyno alts are scouts. they are just better scouts cause they keep your capital safer.

As long as its random anywhere in system then I'm already with it cloaks are easy to fit plus no one would have any time to do anything as they have no notice someone is jumping.
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#14 - 2014-07-08 19:20:59 UTC
Give this jump a 30-45 second delay (locking onto the sun or some jazz) and put a warpable beacon in the target system somewhere ongrid with the spot the ship will pop out (not right on top though). Defenders can respond in time. So this cant really be used offensively ( aside from as a distraction tactic)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#15 - 2014-07-08 19:44:44 UTC
Linkxsc162534 wrote:
Give this jump a 30-45 second delay (locking onto the sun or some jazz) and put a warpable beacon in the target system somewhere ongrid with the spot the ship will pop out (not right on top though). Defenders can respond in time. So this cant really be used offensively ( aside from as a distraction tactic)

The delay I can appreciate.

The warpable beacon, I am thinking put it at the default grid for the star itself, and skip the extra beacon entirely.

If you see a name appear, you can check at a gate, or if you think it might be a capital, at the sun.

If you see a cyno beacon, then you know where to go then as well.
I would suggest the sun itself acts as the beacon, giving a permanent thing to lock onto which a cyno beacon imitates for that exact reason.

Seeing that name in local should be enough to let you know something is up, and if it is by itself, you don't need the cyno beacon to tell you a familiar name is in a cap, at that star.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#16 - 2014-07-08 19:58:20 UTC
All stations should have a cyno beacon that anyone can fuel and light. bam problem of noob ship cynos solved for normal caps.
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#17 - 2014-07-08 20:06:43 UTC
Seeing as I made a thread with a similar suggestion a week ago, I can't say "no"Smile, but at the same time, I can't say I think this would be a good thing to implement for every jump-capable ship- it may serve better as an ability reserved for specific ship classes, like the Black Ops, given the more covert nature of this form of travel.

Even though needing cynos is bothersome, I don't think it should be able to be bypassed completely by any ship pilot, including super pilots..

Just my two cents Big smile
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#18 - 2014-07-08 20:32:02 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Seeing as I made a thread with a similar suggestion a week ago, I can't say "no"Smile, but at the same time, I can't say I think this would be a good thing to implement for every jump-capable ship- it may serve better as an ability reserved for specific ship classes, like the Black Ops, given the more covert nature of this form of travel.

Even though needing cynos is bothersome, I don't think it should be able to be bypassed completely by any ship pilot, including super pilots..

Just my two cents Big smile

I have empathy for your view, but I am thinking if the landing zone is the star's default grid, it can be gate camped, and bubbled.

This would give sov holders additional incentive to defend their space, as well as create a bottleneck to promote interaction.
(The sun would effectively become the gate for caps, unless a cyno is used, and that has a beacon as well as a name in local to advertise it's potential)
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#19 - 2014-07-08 20:35:36 UTC
Oh, well if the default sun grid is the landing space, then that makes it a lot more reasonable Smile

I keep thinking of the 'anywhere within x AU of the star' idea from the other thread, I guessOops
Linkxsc162534
Silent Scourge
#20 - 2014-07-08 20:46:52 UTC
Uriel Paradisi Anteovnuecci wrote:
Oh, well if the default sun grid is the landing space, then that makes it a lot more reasonable Smile

I keep thinking of the 'anywhere within x AU of the star' idea from the other thread, I guessOops


My figuring was anywhere around 50km from the center of the sun grid. (That way one could land and cloak up and have some ability to escape detection.)
A few bubbles around the area. And now the carriers and dreads will have to sloboat it out the area.

Perhaps another thought.

Carriers and dreads can land anywhere in a 50km radius. Moms would land in a 25km rad. And titans would land on point.

No bridging though. If you send someone in first with a cyno thats 1 thing. But no bridging to a sun.
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