Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Might want to rework this. Right now dreads cannot cross even a single jump in some areas (e.g. B-D in Cloud Ring to J5A in Fountain). Your idea would make power projection in that case easier, not harder.

Come to think of it, Manny's idea of even a single jump, in that specific context would make power projection easier. Maybe a light year limit is still needed.

Real threat, certainly not. Under such a mechanic, you shouldn't be able to take a system just by running novice plexes (indeed, the difficulty might be related to both current sov level and sec).

But in a relatively unused system, he might be an annoyance, and annoyances start fights.

You already have this, able to be an annoyance (heck go look at the afk cloaking camper threads). Problem is most people simply turtle up and only do things that are low risk in null (and if you aren't your are daft, since those high risk things you can do in null you can also do in empire without the risk or substantially reduced risk).

I think where Manny is trying to go is that people start also doing risky things in null either because they have too, or the benefits outweigh the costs. Once you get to this point, roaming hostile gangs become viable, as do roaming/gate camping defense fleets.

And part of the problem is that CCP has stated that they think null needs to be dependent on empire. While some dependence is probably reasonable, right now null is almost totally dependent (aside from moon goo, officer mods, and high end ores). Manny's vision is at least somewhat hostile to this, that null can become more self-supporting. Lets go back to Manny's early posts on this:



When Manny says, "you will want miners and builders in your home," he means alliances will want those dirty nasty carebear industrialists in their alliance, in their systems, shooting rocks, researching BPOs and installing jobs. Alliance and corp chat will not only have conversations about PvP and RL, but about whether or not your hulks should be fit for tank or max yield or to what level a BPO should be researched, etc. For many alliances this would be a cultural shift that might not even be possible.

But these same nasty dirty carebears also become potential targets. Hopefully, they'll also become something like yeomen farmers--i.e. normally they are out there gathering resources for making stuff (the alliance needs, and for a profit no less), but when trouble starts they can reship into combat ships and you can have your fights.

Clarification: when I write, "dirty nasty carebear industrialists," I am being sarcastic. I have several dirty nasty carebear industrialist alts, that are rarely utilized in my alliance except as cyno alts. I'd love for them to be useful out in null sec.

Hey so, i play in wormholes so im not as effected by the cap power projection thing as other people, but i was talking with my mates and had a idea and was told to post it here cause we all thought it was cool, so here goes.

rather than buffing or nerfing caps themselves, it seems to me a lot of the problem could be solved by buffing system wide cyno jammers.
Simply:

• Buff system wide cyno jammers so that you can not jump through a system that you can not jump into.
• Have high sec act as cyno jammed systems in this regard.
• Give jump freighters immunity to this effect(but not portals).

This makes cyno blocking upgrades have a distance beyond the system that they are in, which makes sense its not like if you get 100AU from the system upgrade suddenly you can cyno stuff in.

Off the cuff i would say the sphere of inhibition should be dependant on the mass of stars(currently unused thing thats in game)
big stars would prevent huge area's from being jumped through. tiny ones would not. Basicly the star's gravity well is poisoned for cyno's by the upgrade. for a star like ours that would be about 52,500 AU(about halfway through the oort cloud) or .8 light years.

Ideally this would make it so big empires could make fortresses, with walls that prevent people from getting in(and out) with out using gates.
It would become hard to have just one system as a staging point as systems around it could be walled off preventing mobility... and making people fight for this.
In essence, the problem with jumping is that subspace or hyper space or whatever the movement plane you use to jump in eve is fundamentally flat moving in every direction is equally easy. If you give it contours, that creates superior positions and then that in turn creates jockeying and things to fight over. This could even be used to set up traps, locking a fleet in hostile space.

The biggest things in game that might be needed to be changed to make this a truly interesting rebalance would be solar masses, but no one really cares if they get upgraded to a different start or downgraded to a white dwarf do they?

Various capitals being balanced i don't know anything about but i think this would be cool.
my 2 cents.
Addendum: to be clear jump freighters shouldn't be allowed to jump into jammed systems, just through their sphere of influence like they can now.

Thanks for the links. I remember reading those devblogs as I took a nulsec vacation back then. It allowed me to believe that maybe CCP was working on nulsec iteration and that it might improve. That and The 99 Percent kept me from leaving the game.

After 3 years it is interesting to see how many of those goals CCP has failed or succeeded on.

I like what has been done with exploration. Industry look like its on the right track. Hopefully logistics will be following.

The objectives for small gang pvp are non-existent in nulsec and have been for 10 years. It is strictly the real of nofuks given pvp.

For large fleets there aren't any objectives in nulsec other than to dunk on someone weaker than you and hope you don't get hot-dropped by one of several bored super-capital heavy alliances. Thanks to lots of rebalance work, there are more options available for fleet comps. Kudos.



The sitting waiting for hours then getting instapopped part is everything wrong with large-scale pvp in eve. It is why drone assist got nerfed and why titan tracking got nerfed.

Small holding does not exist anymore. It is literally dead.

Sov is broken on literally every point.

Intel is broken on nearly every point.

Home. RIP Tribe. RIP Period Basis. Catch just isn't catching my interest.

Yes, it's literally a man-hours of resource collection game.



Pretty much, though I can tell you from first hand experience that when you are trying to mine for 8-16 hours a day, or need to have that level of output to make any serious amount of product required on an alliance level then have your system camped for 30 minutes every 2-3 hours, or worse have one of your miners get caught, it hurts you pretty bad.

Then have your PVP elitists complaining about supply, fittings, and availability of ships when they don't help defend your space (to name names -A- in 09, and HONOR/HERO this year for me) and ***** incessantly about how **** you are at PVP when you are in a mining barge that dies incredibly fast to any kind of real gang and interceptors being bubble immune making things so much harder to mount home defense.

I think if we limit Jumpbridges to only reaching a adjacent system then that is a enough of a hit. I think sov owners should be able to have their JB at a pos. I mean they are spending the isk and maintaining the Jumpbridge it should have some reasonable means of defense.

As far as limiting to only the alliance that owns it I think think with the nerf to jumpbridges only reaching a adjacent system that the owner should retain the right on who uses their jumpbridge.

All of this seems really complicated. Why not just cut the jump range in lightyears to a third of its current distance. Geography would then naturally restrict the projection even further as routes become greatly constrained it would not be a simple matter to move a significant distance.

As for jump bridges limit their connections to within the constellation and increase their power/cpu requirement such that they take up nearly all available pos resources. This would allow small gangs to camp them in much the same way as they do gates.

That's a bit bigger than the gangs I roam with and incaping mods sounds like unpleasant and time consuming structure grinding. A jump bridge is at some level a player made stargate. As it stands now with defenses it is something a lot stronger and harder to camp than a normal gate.

The entire point of this thread was to suggest ways to reduce projection, which is perhaps not a goal everyone agrees with. However, if that is the goal than increasing the vulnerability to camping would be a way, especially if it was neutered to the point that a duo or trio could make a nuisance of themselves. Seems odd that the player made stargate (jump bridge) would be much less vulnerable to harassment than the usual gates.

Neat!