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Invitation To 0.0 ( - Destiny - )

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Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#721 - 2014-07-08 16:43:39 UTC
Sky' Darkstar wrote:


You have no counter argument and continue to insult me at a personal level. Once again, very telling.


Actually, Aaron made point one for me.

Second of all, please tell me how you showing your ignorance is me insulting you?

You are the one proving the point that you dont know very much, and what you know is wrong.

Now, if you care to show me somewhere that either communism OR socialism hasn't helped form a functioning goverment, and by comparison show me an infallible capitalist state, theocracy, meritocracy or technocracy, Ill concede your point.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sky' Darkstar
Magnetar Dynamics
#722 - 2014-07-08 16:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky' Darkstar
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:


You have no counter argument and continue to insult me at a personal level. Once again, very telling.


Actually, Aaron made point one for me.

Second of all, please tell me how you showing your ignorance is me insulting you?

You are the one proving the point that you dont know very much, and what you know is wrong.

Now, if you care to show me somewhere that either communism OR socialism hasn't helped form a functioning goverment, and by comparison show me an infallible capitalist state, theocracy, meritocracy or technocracy, Ill concede your point.


Ah, and there it is. You're trying to completely twist the conversation without first acknowledging the questions and point presented to you.

Your first question: "show me somewhere that either communism OR socialism hasn't helped form a functioning government"

We are talking about a CURRENT functioning communistic or socialistic country. NOT one that either system "has helped form". With that mindset, one could argue that Soviet Russia's communist structure was successfully because it "helped form" modern day Russia.

Also, you're avoiding my initial question when you were the one that tried to engage in a debate in the first place. Why should I then turn around and provide you proof/source when you have not done the same when I initially asked first?

Your second request: "by comparison show me an infallible capitalist state, theocracy, meritocracy or technocracy, Ill concede your point."
This is a twist on words of what I said. I never once said anywhere that any capitalist state was infallible. Those are your words, and thus you are trying to completely change the context of the argument by requesting I prove a point that I never once tried to claim.

So, let's try again. I'm ready to start over whenever you are.

EDIT: Added an additional point.

-Sky'
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#723 - 2014-07-08 16:58:11 UTC
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

So, let's try again. I'm ready to start over whenever you are.


Go for it, pose your question. (Given that your first question, and your subsequent modification of said question were substantially different in content)

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sky' Darkstar
Magnetar Dynamics
#724 - 2014-07-08 17:01:13 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

So, let's try again. I'm ready to start over whenever you are.


Go for it, pose your question. (Given that your first question, and your subsequent modification of said question were substantially different in content)



I don't have any other question besides the one that I initially posed after you decided to challenge my statement.

Point on the map of Earth to a country where communism and socialism is working. I guess I have to then clarify and say one that does not have capitalism as it's base economic structure, but I would assume that would be a given and not be taken as "modifying the question".

-Sky'
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#725 - 2014-07-08 17:07:31 UTC
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

Point on the map of Earth to a country where communism and socialism is working. I guess I have to then clarify and say one that does not have capitalism as it's base economic structure, but I would assume that would be a given and not be taken as "modifying the question".


So that we are clear and I cant be accused of misinterperating data or the question;

"Working" in this instance only applies to the economic model of any country in question and not its socio-political model?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#726 - 2014-07-08 17:09:59 UTC
In RL I've been an anti-socialist and anticommunist and if Hub Zero was a socialist/communist thing, I would not be touching it with a borrowed 10' pole.


Market-wise and demographically as well, there's no collectivism going on in HZ. Nobody is being forced to give anything over. Some support is asked for and some support is offered freely (I can't do a thing with T2 blueprints I find so I give them to hub bros but that's my choice). I have not seen anybody get forced to give or do anything.


All other commerce involves a free market. Other features of collectivism I have not seen - there's no price fixing or arbitrary limitations. Oh but I'm sure someone will claim the "markup" for delivery, the "percentage over Jita". I won't give details for security reasons but let me just say it's way cheaper than courier contracts and well worth the ISK if you don't want to do 60+ jumps with larger ships through the gank pipelines of bubble and instalock camps. IMO it was so cheap I felt like I was stealing.

You can also not expect nullsec to be Jita. The day may come when HZ is like a Jita of nullsec, but if everything has to be compared to Jita, and then rejected because it's not the exact same as Jita, then let's just have one solar system and get it over with, make it Jita online and we can cram everybody in it and we can all spend our days blocking ISK doublers and scammers and watching highsec PVP ass-hattery at the gate (something that does not happen in nullsec, BTW).


Nope if this was a collectivist (socialist/communist) thing I would not be supporting it.


Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Sky' Darkstar
Magnetar Dynamics
#727 - 2014-07-08 17:10:36 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

Point on the map of Earth to a country where communism and socialism is working. I guess I have to then clarify and say one that does not have capitalism as it's base economic structure, but I would assume that would be a given and not be taken as "modifying the question".


So that we are clear and I cant be accused of misinterperating data or the question;

"Working" in this instance only applies to the economic model of any country in question and not its socio-political model?


I'm not going to further breakdown the question for you (I don't even know how I could get more basic). Our posts are going to start being removed by an ISD soon (which might be why you are stalling?).

Here is the definition of capitalism:

cap·i·tal·ism [kap-i-tl-iz-uhm]
noun
an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Either answer the question or don't.

-Sky'
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#728 - 2014-07-08 17:15:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Sky' Darkstar wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

Point on the map of Earth to a country where communism and socialism is working. I guess I have to then clarify and say one that does not have capitalism as it's base economic structure, but I would assume that would be a given and not be taken as "modifying the question".


So that we are clear and I cant be accused of misinterperating data or the question;

"Working" in this instance only applies to the economic model of any country in question and not its socio-political model?


I'm not going to further breakdown the question for you (I don't even know how I could get more basic). Our posts are going to start being removed by an ISD soon (which might be why you are stalling?).

Here is the definition of capitalism:

cap·i·tal·ism [kap-i-tl-iz-uhm]
noun
an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Either answer the question or don't.


As neither capitalism nor socialism can exist in a vaccuum, then I put it to you that ALL countries are appropriate correct answers to your unclear and erroneous question.

I also put it to you that you don't actually know what you are talking about, as the proof is self evident.

To you, economics appears to be the be all and end all of social theory. This is, of course, utter bunk.

Further, your initial point was that the architect of the project the thread is about was ranting in a previous thread, and yet the only person ranting here, as of this time, is your good self.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sky' Darkstar
Magnetar Dynamics
#729 - 2014-07-08 17:25:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky' Darkstar
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

Point on the map of Earth to a country where communism and socialism is working. I guess I have to then clarify and say one that does not have capitalism as it's base economic structure, but I would assume that would be a given and not be taken as "modifying the question".


So that we are clear and I cant be accused of misinterperating data or the question;

"Working" in this instance only applies to the economic model of any country in question and not its socio-political model?


I'm not going to further breakdown the question for you (I don't even know how I could get more basic). Our posts are going to start being removed by an ISD soon (which might be why you are stalling?).

Here is the definition of capitalism:

cap·i·tal·ism [kap-i-tl-iz-uhm]
noun
an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

Either answer the question or don't.


As neither capitalism nor socialism can exist in a vaccuum, then I put it to you that ALL countries are appropriate correct answers to your unclear and erroneous statement.

I put it to you that you don't actually know what you are talking about, as the proof is self evident.

To you, economics appears to be the be all and end all of social theory. This is, of course, utter bunk.



Having read the above, I will then have to conclude that you have no answer to the question.

"I put it to you that you don't actually know what you are talking about, as the proof is self evident."
Yet you have no counter argument, or proof to refute me or what I am saying.

"As neither capitalism nor socialism can exist in a vaccuum, then I put it to you that ALL countries are appropriate correct answers to your unclear and erroneous statement."
Very open ended and "backdoor-way-out" non-direct answer. Clever.

You see, what you are trying to do might work for you most of the time. You are "argument juking".

You are bouncing back and forth, trying to seek out loopholes in the wording of the conversation/argument in hopes of confusing the initial direct question presented to you so you don't actually have to answer it. If your response above satisfies you as the end to this conversation, then so be it. I have nothing to prove, and I wasn't here to argue in the first place. Merely to state an opinion on Aaron's previous failed attempts. You were the one to initially challenge my first post/comment to this thread, so "putting it back on me" might help you sleep at night, but in reality you stepped up to, and started an argument you could not sustain or support in the end.

Fly safe o/

EDIT: Also, to save you some face, I will disregard the ninja edit you did in order to add that last personal jab at me. o7

-Sky'
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#730 - 2014-07-08 17:32:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramona McCandless
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

Having read the above, I will then have to conclude that you have no answer to the question.

I did.
I said all countries. Your question was (by your own definition) not specific enough for me to supply any other answer.

Sky' Darkstar wrote:

You are bouncing back and forth, trying to seek out loopholes in the wording of the conversation/argument in hopes of confusing the initial direct question presented to you so you don't actually have to answer it.

Your question was not specific. You started with the position that all left-of-centre economies had failed. I pointed out that this was incorrect because all countries must operate at least some left-of-centre policies otherwise they simply will not function.
Rather than counter this, you essentially said that my answer was invalid because it was as vague as your question.
I offered you the opportunity to make your question more specific and you refused.
You cannot accept the answe,r, that is not my problem, but it still disproves your initial position that all left-of-centre economic and political models have failed.

Sky' Darkstar wrote:
I have nothing to prove, and I wasn't here to argue in the first place

Given that you came in with not only a diatribe about the OP but also a politically charged statement regarding socio-economic policy in the entire real world, Im afraid that your above statement is quite clearly an ignorant pile of bunk at best and an outright lie at worst.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sky' Darkstar
Magnetar Dynamics
#731 - 2014-07-08 17:39:30 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

Having read the above, I will then have to conclude that you have no answer to the question.

I did.
I said all countries. Your question was (by your own definition) not specific enough for me to supply any other answer.

Sky' Darkstar wrote:

You are bouncing back and forth, trying to seek out loopholes in the wording of the conversation/argument in hopes of confusing the initial direct question presented to you so you don't actually have to answer it.

Your question was not specific. You started with the position that all left-of-centre economies had failed. I pointed out that this was incorrect because all countries must operate at least some left-of-centre policies otherwise they simply will not function.
Rather than counter this, you essentially said that my answer was invalid because it was as vague as your question.
I offered you the opportunity to make your question more specific and you refused.
You cannot accept the answe,r, that is not my problem, but it still disproves your initial position that all left-of-centre economic and political models have failed.

Sky' Darkstar wrote:
I have nothing to prove, and I wasn't here to argue in the first place

Given that you came in with not only a diatribe about the OP but also a politically charged statement regarding socio-economic policy in the entire real world, Im afraid that your above statement is quite clearly an ignorant pile of bunk at best and an outright lie at worst.



Once again, whatever helps you sleep at night. o7 (now go ahead and get the last word in and say you won the argument in some long winded way.)

-Sky'
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#732 - 2014-07-08 17:41:13 UTC
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

now go ahead and get the last word in and say you won the argument in some long winded way.


There was no argument. You were incorrect and proceeded to prove your ignorance. That's not the definition of an argument.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sky' Darkstar
Magnetar Dynamics
#733 - 2014-07-08 17:45:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky' Darkstar
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

now go ahead and get the last word in and say you won the argument in some long winded way.


There was no argument. You were incorrect and proceeded to prove your ignorance. That's not the definition of an argument.


Now you just seem angry. If you want you can EVE mail me directly to blow off some steam.

EDIT: You're welcome for the free bumps Aaron P

-Sky'
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#734 - 2014-07-08 17:51:37 UTC
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

Now you just seem angry. If you want you can EVE mail me directly to blow off some steam.


Thousands of years ago, when humans looked up at the stars and wondered what lay beyond the heavens, and had only begun to explore the mysteries of fire and explore the limits of their newly developed languages, one human turned to another, after their position was undermined due to a particularly poorly thought out argument and replied in the only way his primitive language allowed him to;

"You mad, bro?"

I am proud to be in the presence of someone such as yourself who recognises the momentousness of that event, and holds it in such high regard as to pay homage to it, and its untold billions of uses before you, by carving it into the eternal digital stone of the very internet itself, for surely you are the first, and truly most illustrious, of its users; a noble and fine line of extraordinarily sharp minds and that you are without doubt the very summit of that achievement.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sky' Darkstar
Magnetar Dynamics
#735 - 2014-07-08 17:54:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Sky' Darkstar
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

Now you just seem angry. If you want you can EVE mail me directly to blow off some steam.


Thousands of years ago, when humans looked up at the stars and wondered what lay beyond the heavens, and had only begun to explore the mysteries of fire and explore the limits of their newly developed languages, one human turned to another, after their position was undermined due to a particularly poorly thought out argument and replied in the only way his primitive language allowed him to;

"You mad, bro?"

I am proud to be in the presence of someone such as yourself who recognises the momentousness of that event, and holds it in such high regard as to pay homage to it, and its untold billions of uses before you, by carving it into the eternal digital stone of the very internet itself, for surely you are the first, and truly most illustrious, of its users; a noble and fine line of extraordinarily sharp minds and that you are without doubt the very summit of that achievement.



Hahahahahahaha.

It's definitely true what they say

Tranquility runs off of tears.

EDIT: Not gonna lie though Ramona, that was friggin' hilarious. - no sarcasm.

-Sky'
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#736 - 2014-07-08 18:15:38 UTC
Sky' Darkstar wrote:
Not gonna lie though Ramona, that was friggin' hilarious. - no sarcasm.


Im glad you enjoyed it

I had fun writing it Smile

You may hate "commies", but you can be my friend now anyway

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sky' Darkstar
Magnetar Dynamics
#737 - 2014-07-08 18:20:28 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:
Not gonna lie though Ramona, that was friggin' hilarious. - no sarcasm.


Im glad you enjoyed it

I had fun writing it Smile

You may hate "commies", but you can be my friend now anyway


I agree. We can put our disagreements aside and be friends in New Eden. Smile

See, don't you wish every internet-spaceship-soap-opera-drama could end up like this?

-Sky'
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#738 - 2014-07-08 18:23:15 UTC
Sky' Darkstar wrote:


I agree. We can put our disagreements aside and be friends in New Eden. Smile

See, don't you wish every internet-spaceship-soap-opera-drama could end up like this?


Sniff* its beautiful

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Sky' Darkstar
Magnetar Dynamics
#739 - 2014-07-08 18:54:57 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Sky' Darkstar wrote:


I agree. We can put our disagreements aside and be friends in New Eden. Smile

See, don't you wish every internet-spaceship-soap-opera-drama could end up like this?


Sniff* its beautiful


BTW, I got so tied up with throwing darts at the Joseph Stalin poster on my wall (P) that I actually forgot to ask why you also think this "Hub-Zero" idea is stupid. Obviously its for a completely different reason than I do, but I am still curious why.

-Sky'
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#740 - 2014-07-08 19:32:03 UTC
Sky' Darkstar wrote:

BTW, I got so tied up with throwing darts at the Joseph Stalin poster on my wall (P) that I actually forgot to ask why you also think this "Hub-Zero" idea is stupid. Obviously its for a completely different reason than I do, but I am still curious why.


Honestly? I can't remember. I was probably looking for an argument. Er I mean rational debate Big smile

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann