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Restrict Watchlist
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Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-06-20 10:11:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Madbuster73
Maz Ngomo wrote:
You're aware the watchlist only tells you that someone is online, not where they are right? It's a useful game feature, not a game-breaking intel source.



You should read better: Super and Titan pilots are the ones that are being watchlisted.
It is not possible to log in your Capital Fleet without being noticed due to the watchlist.
This is actually gamebreaking since you only need to watchlist them once and you have instant and free intel forever.

People have stopped using their Supers because they know they have been watchlisted and the second they log on,
the enemy will run a locater on them and hunt them down. This is too easy and will make that all super pilots will either stop using them or join the biggest supercap alliance in game to avoid losing them. Do we want more big block power projection??
Maz Ngomo
#42 - 2014-06-20 15:52:31 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:
You should read better: Super and Titan pilots are the ones that are being watchlisted.
It is not possible to log in your Capital Fleet without being noticed due to the watchlist.
This is actually gamebreaking since you only need to watchlist them once and you have instant and free intel forever.

People have stopped using their Supers because they know they have been watchlisted and the second they log on,
the enemy will run a locater on them and hunt them down. This is too easy and will make that all super pilots will either stop using them or join the biggest supercap alliance in game to avoid losing them. Do we want more big block power projection??

With respect, anyone worried about random strangers suddenly attacking them due to logging in is someone that has no business flying a supercap, as it suggests that they feel their fleet/corp/alliance support is lacking. In that case, they're better off in another role and I wish them the best of luck.

Personally I don't know a single supercap pilot who gives two hoots about anyone knowing they're online because they never leave their POS shields without a fleet at their side (besides titans which only poke their butts out to bridge anyway 90% of the time).

So what you're suggesting is the removal of a useful feature that many players use and enjoy every day, for the sake of a handful of risk-averse supercapital pilots. Interesting.
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-06-22 22:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Madbuster73
Maz Ngomo wrote:
Madbuster73 wrote:
You should read better: Super and Titan pilots are the ones that are being watchlisted.
It is not possible to log in your Capital Fleet without being noticed due to the watchlist.
This is actually gamebreaking since you only need to watchlist them once and you have instant and free intel forever.

People have stopped using their Supers because they know they have been watchlisted and the second they log on,
the enemy will run a locater on them and hunt them down. This is too easy and will make that all super pilots will either stop using them or join the biggest supercap alliance in game to avoid losing them. Do we want more big block power projection??

With respect, anyone worried about random strangers suddenly attacking them due to logging in is someone that has no business flying a supercap, as it suggests that they feel their fleet/corp/alliance support is lacking. In that case, they're better off in another role and I wish them the best of luck.

Personally I don't know a single supercap pilot who gives two hoots about anyone knowing they're online because they never leave their POS shields without a fleet at their side (besides titans which only poke their butts out to bridge anyway 90% of the time).

So what you're suggesting is the removal of a useful feature that many players use and enjoy every day, for the sake of a handful of risk-averse supercapital pilots. Interesting.


You also didnt read my post very well.....

In my first post I stated that most alliances cant log in their Capital FLEET without the enemy knowing.
What part of that you dont understand??
It is too easy intel for wich they have to do nothing.
It would benefit Capital Deployments a lot if the smaller Alliances feel safer to drop their capital fleet without being hotdropped by the big super alliances like Pandemic Legion etc.
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2014-06-24 11:50:12 UTC
This awesome idea could use some more support...
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-07-08 00:26:42 UTC
Maz Ngomo wrote:
You're aware the watchlist only tells you that someone is online, not where they are right? It's a useful game feature, not a game-breaking intel source.



Yes and they have you in the folder of "Supers" so they know what you are in and then they run a locator on you.

So they know that your super is online and where it is without breaking a sweat.
People should work for their intel.
Metagaming is what is destroying this game.



Watchlisting is one of the most used and easy intel assets at the moment.
People just have to put you on watchlist and provide free and easy instant intel.
There are alliances that have every single Super and Titan-pilot watchlisted and it makes it almost impossible nowadays to log in a SUPER or Titan pilot without the enemy instantly knowing it.
This makes boring gameplay and prevents covert CAPITAL operations.
This will also generate big-bloc power projection since nobody wants to fly his Super or Titan with smaller Alliances because they know that big blocs like Pandemic Legion have them watchlisted and will hunt them down as soon as they log in.
So there is only one choice left and that is to join a big bloc or loose your Super to them because they have you watchlisted.


I propose that people can only watchlist you if you accept it. in other words:
If somebody wants to watchlist you, you get a message wich asks you if you agree to have that person watchlist you.

This way people will actually have to do more active scouting and less metagaming in station.

And it will provide more capital action since people will be less scared to log in their capital ships without having the danger of being ganked by big alliances with lots of capital ships that are waiting for you to log in and see you on their watchlist.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2014-07-08 05:19:41 UTC
So all I'm getting from this is guy wants to be safe when logging in his lowsec titan to switch skills. Does that sum up this thread?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#47 - 2014-07-08 07:59:54 UTC
What was this ? Did I hear a 'buhhuhuhu' to reanimate a dead thread ?

Seriously, people complaining about the watchlist have no concept if intelligence and COUNTERINTELLIGENCE. You know, even if you are tagged, you can make the watchlist work for you ? A a lack of understanding and imagination is no excuse to complain about a working feature.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#48 - 2014-07-08 10:52:16 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
Even though you are from TRI, but could you please employ the Search Function of the forum Google Search before posting things that have been posted here countless times before?

--

Dally Lama wrote:
Supported. There is no logical reasons why someone should know you've woken up in a station halfway across the cluster. Instant intel is lazy. If the person is important enough use locator agents and scout the systems yourself.

+1

EDIT: Perhaps locator agents could tell you if the person is awake or not. We can attach a bunch of rules and timers to it in order to keep it balanced (i.e. not instant intel once again).


Why is that? We live in a social age and as much as I despise Facebook and Twitter for what it shows us (I don't use that bullshit), as long as people use these services, there is no logical reason not to see if someone wakes up.



ofc there is, no regular peron would like others to know ... a lot of people cover theire online status. and i am sure it would be much better not to know if some one is online, if they don't agree to it yo. this free intel is a pain beacause it's making game too easy, special easy for super caps lvl of game.

this thing should been removed long time ago
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-07-08 11:11:29 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
What was this ? Did I hear a 'buhhuhuhu' to reanimate a dead thread ?

Seriously, people complaining about the watchlist have no concept if intelligence and COUNTERINTELLIGENCE. You know, even if you are tagged, you can make the watchlist work for you ? A a lack of understanding and imagination is no excuse to complain about a working feature.



What is this? Is this a buhhuhuhu of people that dont want to undock to get intel?
This will benefit the smaller Alliances that want to use their Supers without being immediatly hotdropped by PL or GOONS.
Offcourse PL and GOONS will say that it is a "working" feature because they are masters of metagaming.
Ofcourse they want to keep ganking Supers and Titans of smaller entities, and all they have to do is keep them on watchlist.

Watchlist is only beneficial for the big blocs with lots of supers.
Counterintelligence is worthless since you KNOW they will blob the hell out of you the second you log your super in, because they will know instantly because of the ridicilous watchlist.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#50 - 2014-07-08 13:55:21 UTC
You know, this game could be more interesting if there were a greater reliance upon locator agents, on-grid scouts, probes, and d-scan. For a game that emphasizes a world of possibilities, it feels like scouting gets the short end of the player stick because CCP introduced so many powerful tools that reduce (not eliminate, but reduce) the need for actual human players in that role.

But I'm biased. I play Scout in TF2. A lot.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#51 - 2014-07-08 14:33:56 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
You know, this game could be more interesting if there were a greater reliance upon locator agents, on-grid scouts, probes, and d-scan. For a game that emphasizes a world of possibilities, it feels like scouting gets the short end of the player stick because CCP introduced so many powerful tools that reduce (not eliminate, but reduce) the need for actual human players in that role.

But I'm biased. I play Scout in TF2. A lot.



make locator agents not suck and I'll use them more. currently only able to run one ever half hour with a lv 4 and every 15 mins with a lv3 means to effectively track down new war targets it takes forever and requires lots of alts.




on a side note if you want to change watch list make it 2 way. I add you to watch list it tells you and now you can add me to watch list.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#52 - 2014-07-08 15:08:47 UTC
Indeed, they do kind of suck. But my post wasn't really all that serious in the first place. Just trying to be a bit...jovial with the TF2 bit.

Lady Rift wrote:

make locator agents not suck and I'll use them more. currently only able to run one ever half hour with a lv 4 and every 15 mins with a lv3 means to effectively track down new war targets it takes forever and requires lots of alts.




on a side note if you want to change watch list make it 2 way. I add you to watch list it tells you and now you can add me to watch list.

Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#53 - 2014-07-08 15:13:34 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
Indeed, they do kind of suck. But my post wasn't really all that serious in the first place. Just trying to be a bit...jovial with the TF2 bit.

Lady Rift wrote:

make locator agents not suck and I'll use them more. currently only able to run one ever half hour with a lv 4 and every 15 mins with a lv3 means to effectively track down new war targets it takes forever and requires lots of alts.




on a side note if you want to change watch list make it 2 way. I add you to watch list it tells you and now you can add me to watch list.



I know I might of been a little to direct but I just finished 3 hours of locating people for a war using 3 alts using 4 lv 4 locator agents and 2 lv 3's each so I'm not in the nicest of moods towards locator agents.

Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-07-08 15:17:31 UTC
I'd have to agree with OP.

Watchlist is pretty much stalking too :D. But it is ridiculous that random people (ie, your foes) can just watchlist you without your consent. I think it would be easiest to have a "Cannot watch list me" flag - and a whitelist where you can put exactly who you can see you.

However, this change should only come should CCP ever decide to do "big stuff" changes like 0.0 SOV/Big ally bloc reset, No Local Chat and whatnots.

But yeah, you shouldn't be able to watchlist enemies unless you're whitelisted - but that's just me.

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#55 - 2014-07-08 15:40:10 UTC
Madbuster73 wrote:
This will benefit the smaller Alliances that want to use their Supers without being immediatly hotdropped by PL or GOONS.
Offcourse PL and GOONS will say that it is a "working" feature because they are masters of metagaming.
Ofcourse they want to keep ganking Supers and Titans of smaller entities, and all they have to do is keep them on watchlist.

Watchlist is only beneficial for the big blocs with lots of supers.
Counterintelligence is worthless since you KNOW they will blob the hell out of you the second you log your super in, because they will know instantly because of the ridicilous watchlist.


You are reducing a feature that everyone can use to a very small group and a single issue. Your logic, reasoning and conclusions are at fault, because you are ignoring everything and everybody else, as you demonstrated again. You are utterly ignorant of possibilites, options, other players and other gameplay, but for a few with supers and their constricted mindeset and concern. Yeah, a great objective and all-encompassing argument you are having here.
Syd Unknown
#56 - 2014-07-08 18:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Syd Unknown
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Madbuster73 wrote:
This will benefit the smaller Alliances that want to use their Supers without being immediatly hotdropped by PL or GOONS.
Offcourse PL and GOONS will say that it is a "working" feature because they are masters of metagaming.
Ofcourse they want to keep ganking Supers and Titans of smaller entities, and all they have to do is keep them on watchlist.

Watchlist is only beneficial for the big blocs with lots of supers.
Counterintelligence is worthless since you KNOW they will blob the hell out of you the second you log your super in, because they will know instantly because of the ridicilous watchlist.


You are reducing a feature that everyone can use to a very small group and a single issue. Your logic, reasoning and conclusions are at fault, because you are ignoring everything and everybody else, as you demonstrated again. You are utterly ignorant of possibilites, options, other players and other gameplay, but for a few with supers and their constricted mindeset and concern. Yeah, a great objective and all-encompassing argument you are having here.



And your arguments are?

You are burning down a good idea, yet you fail ro give a good argument why it shouldnt be implemented.
So either you are bad at trolling or you have no clue what you are talking about.
You also talk about possibilities, options and other gameplay, yet you do not specify any.
Please enlighten me and tell me what you can do to avoid PL hotdropping you when they have watchlisted
all your super-pilots and you are logging in your Supers to shoot some structures.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#57 - 2014-07-08 18:10:12 UTC
Syd Unknown wrote:
And your arguments are?

You are burning down a good idea, yet you fail ro give a good argument why it shouldnt be implemented.
So either you are bad at trolling or you have no clue what you are talking about.

Logged in your alt for that ? GJ.

And you have been reading all the posts right ? And all those of the other threads that have come up ? Again, GJ. My constructive advice, do so.
Syd Unknown
#58 - 2014-07-08 18:15:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Syd Unknown
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Syd Unknown wrote:
And your arguments are?

You are burning down a good idea, yet you fail ro give a good argument why it shouldnt be implemented.
So either you are bad at trolling or you have no clue what you are talking about.

Logged in your alt for that ? GJ.

And you have been reading all the posts right ? And all those of the other threads that have come up ? Again, GJ. My constructive advice, do so.



Still you fail to give constructive feedback.

You fail sir.

I would also like to add that when the watchlist would be removed, its a good idea to improve locater agents, and that they will give info faster and also give info if the user is online or was online for the last time.
That way the watchlist intel is still available, but is not given to you without having to do anything.
Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#59 - 2014-07-08 18:26:52 UTC
Syd Unknown wrote:
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Madbuster73 wrote:
This will benefit the smaller Alliances that want to use their Supers without being immediatly hotdropped by PL or GOONS.
Offcourse PL and GOONS will say that it is a "working" feature because they are masters of metagaming.
Ofcourse they want to keep ganking Supers and Titans of smaller entities, and all they have to do is keep them on watchlist.

Watchlist is only beneficial for the big blocs with lots of supers.
Counterintelligence is worthless since you KNOW they will blob the hell out of you the second you log your super in, because they will know instantly because of the ridicilous watchlist.


You are reducing a feature that everyone can use to a very small group and a single issue. Your logic, reasoning and conclusions are at fault, because you are ignoring everything and everybody else, as you demonstrated again. You are utterly ignorant of possibilites, options, other players and other gameplay, but for a few with supers and their constricted mindeset and concern. Yeah, a great objective and all-encompassing argument you are having here.



And your arguments are?

You are burning down a good idea, yet you fail ro give a good argument why it shouldnt be implemented.
So either you are bad at trolling or you have no clue what you are talking about.
You also talk about possibilities, options and other gameplay, yet you do not specify any.
Please enlighten me and tell me what you can do to avoid PL hotdropping you when they have watchlisted
all your super-pilots and you are logging in your Supers to shoot some structures.



It currently works both ways. When you log supers on they know and when they log super on you know. And the lesson here is to not use supers for structures if your afraid of losing them. dreads aren't that much worse for the job.
Fer'isam K'ahn
SAS Veterinarians
#60 - 2014-07-08 18:29:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Fer'isam K'ahn
WOW ! Really ?

You want to tickle me until I rage out so you can report me or what is your issue, good job a trolling. Just because the arguments are not to your liking or you can't be bothered to actually find out what they were you dismiss them as not being arguments in the first palce.
Then you mention the same single and specific problem like the OP (surprise, even the wordning is similar) and demand the whole game be redesigned so you won't face that one problem.

Here is another constructive advice that will fix your problem even permanently: Biomass.

Fact is the proposed change would suit only or rather have not much negative effect on the big and organised factions and make all solo and small gang players subject to the whim of bigger bullies. - so again: No.