Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Which is why he proposed sov that has to be used to be kept? One of the changes doesn't work without the others .. which is why they were proposed together? And I would like to see more under the name of 'use' than just ratting or mining in a system. Why can't I run a market hub for my two neighbors and get usage points for that?



There is a whole number of ways you could nerf moving big fleets round quickly without breaking NPC nullsec pockets. But they would probably also make them more accessible to less skilled players and who wants that? You better start trading ore/ships/modules for ice/pirate faction stuff/moon goo with random Wormhole People cause those supply convoys don't come through anymore.



Why would they though? What drives 1000 people to jump back and forth 5 times a day to defend something they don't use? That's the question that needs an answer. The only way the blob can end is by making it even more unfun than it is already.



Adding to the hacking thing:
I think the hack should go away with the fleet (over time) that does it. Since not every alliance has a round the clock guard online ready to defend every structure. And having to 'unhack' your sov upgrades every day because some Aussie is pissed and wants you to be pissed as well doesn't sound so great.

I have over 9000 nerds at my disposal and can tell 2000 of them to set up shop and stomp on the locals for a week. Have them mine and build on the spot if need be or just roam like locusts, chewing up one upstart alliance and their budding constellation per week.

Seriously, you know this is something we could do with this change and all the mom and pop outfits would have no more control than they used to. They either pay the piper or get kicked back to empire. It might be a different name in the top left corner of your screen, but since space is all about the rent these days the outcome would still be the same.

Well since those smaller entities would have the need and ability to work on their own and defend their space to random neighbors while their big brother is doing the same to their space. They might actually rather defend their own space than help the big brother kick the teeth of someone 500 jumps away they have never met and will never meet again?

Right now most of those strong independent coalition members wouldn't last a day on their own cause they never had to work on their own FCs or figure out how to do industry or logistics.

You're completely misunderstanding the point of my post.

The point was to say that adding cooldowns to jump-capable ships actually makes the rich able to outcompete the poor based on the merit of the rich being able to afford the multiple characters / hulls needed to set up the Space Pony Express model I keep alluding to in this thread. Power projection has be tackled with a different method than this. I only keep harping on it because this particular idea is a very convenient one to adopt or derive independently and keeps getting mentioned when it has obvious drawbacks that completely undermine the spirit of the proposal.

This is a decent idea, but time dilation largely kills it. When time in the Big Fight System is running at 1/10th speed and jump tunnels are operating at normal speed, an extra 20 minutes isn't going to make a significant difference in the outcome of the fight.

I'm going to go a bit off topic here - how many players have already quit because of how awful playing in today's nullsec is for them? The CFC seems positively desperate to hold onto the advantages presently afforded by their girth, and you're constantly shouting down every conceivable inconvenience proposed to the lifestyle lived by the coalitions. You can't have your cake and eat it, too; the way you play the game works to your advantage, but within it is every reason why the null game sucks.

Thanks for the support and I reassert a more inclusive and diverse nullsec is better for everyone most importantly to CCPs profit margin.

I was mostly agreeing with you that projection is largely based around having isk and manpower, thus power, in the first place. No amount of cooldown or range nerf is going to change that, although I support the idea of cooldown since it would help limit the speed of projection, if not projection itself.

For what it's worth, I could see decent balance towards that end would be to slow down capital movement to around the same timescale as it would take to project a fleet of subcaps an equivalent distance, albeit with the ability to take "shortcuts".

All of what is said in the OP is completely correct, and I think the changes are fantastic.

The fact is that what everybody is saying in this thread as counterpoints are wrong. What I've seen a lot of are things like:

"This isn't tackling the underlying issues for why the coalitions exist."
"This will make 0.0 logistics impossible."
"2000 man blobs will still exist."

First of all, the underlying issue for why coalitions exist is that you all are bloody cowards. There is no tackling that issue, ever. The only way to get around it is to make it hilariously boring for you to be a coward. His changes do this, so as far as I'm concerned that's as close to tackling the issue are you're going to get.

Secondly, anybody complaining about how 0.0 logistics will be hard now doesn't get the point. Fact is that all logistics are way too easy now. People look at this change and think, "How will i bring in hundreds of CTA ships for my alliance now?", when they don't realize that they won't have to bring in hundreds of CTA ships because their alliance won't be that big. The whole point of these changes is to spread out the playerbase, so logistics becomes a local issue rather than a global "just JF it from jita" issue.

Finally, yes, 2000 man blobs will STILL exist, and that's perfectly fine. They're fantastic for marketing, and are reasonably fun once in a while. These changes don't remove all the supers we have in the game, so there is still room for huge planned fights. But the changes also make it so that these huge 10% tidi fights are not the only fights that can happen. The changes proposed here make it such that coalitions cannot drum up 1000 man fleets willy nilly and move them anywhere in eve on short notice. If the coalitions want to exist, that's fine, but they'll end up finding that they won't be able to respond to threats with a 1000 man fleet or a huge supercap force anytime they want. Instead they'll either have to split up those fleets and defend multiple objectives, or just abandon one altogether.

These are fantastic changes and I hope that CCP rolls them out. Force projection needs to be changed, and these changes are the best way of doing that I've seen so far. You can't just make things harder (i.e. increasing fuel costs etc...), you have to make the IMPOSSIBLE, otherwise big entities are the favored result as they will be the only ones who can deal with the harder mechanics (procuring huge amounts of fuel etc...).

Ah! But friend, wait! Here is where the beauty of his changes is evident.

Even if botlord esque argreements happen between two parties over logistical routes, the difference is that with these changes, it makes is very possible for a 3rd party to come in and mess with these logistical routes, as only the people in the region where this logistical movements are happening (i.e. some 0.0 chokepoint, like doril), will be able to respond and deal with the threat. People living regions away, even if they are in an agreement to be try to defend this system, simply will not be able to without committing fleets to sit in that system 24/7--at which point their OWN home systems are now undefended and ripe for the picking.

Currently, there are no 3rd parties that can do anything, because there are no groups large enough to fight goons or n3pl. The point of these changes is to make it so that EVEN IF large coalitions still exist (and they won't since they'll face too much logistical strain to exist), they will not be able to respond with a large enough force to threats from 3rd parties on a local scale.