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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Changes to SOV , Power Projection & Nullsec Stagnation

First post First post First post
Author
Tredionis
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#101 - 2014-07-06 11:39:54 UTC
It`s not about game mechanics it`s about people mentality and needs for safe. Good example of it is CFC PL/N3 that wont attack eachother becouse thay prefer confort of safty and stady big income (PL CFC renters pact , N3 farming provi for fights )but thay want welcome evry newcomer ? so why Null sec expect others to risk and do something if thay wont. There is place for small scale pvp it`s called low sec FW and WH and there is plenty of PL in low sec hunting supers titans so its already say something. Decisions in Eve are driven by isk you get or you lost so sorry to say but null have nothing to offer if i want null i rent it i get more money that way and i wont get fights anyway becouse i got 300 supers on grid. You make null the way it is and no one come to fight you if you are to afriad to fight each other or its to risky for your comfort.

Jump range cost change nothing bring nothing it will be harder whay you want make things harder for null that have noting to offer already ?


I see few solutions
1. Changes in pvp that 100 people can not win but at least fight with 1000 for example be able to destroy something.
2. Small entites should be able to harras sov like system upgrades with ihub if you lose 1 times it lowering system upgrades be 1 that way defending upgrades that are so important for renters raters will be esential and people that live thare should be able to do so .
3. If you want changes that hit big guy not small its very simple make each ship that use Titan brige to use fuel like all jump capable ships that way jumping 1000 men fleet across eve will cost 30b for big guy and for 100 people small fleet 3b and eaven if thay droping on your 100 people 1000 thay already spend 30b op succes.

Big blocs should become content for small entites not the way around becouse there is noting that can change red vs blue in null becouse all decisions in Eve are dictated by isk
Anthar Thebess
#102 - 2014-07-06 12:06:07 UTC
Check current player base , im not talking about active accounts, but on those that are actively playing.
I know many players that just burn their plex/isk reserve keeping their account running hoping that something change.
At the same time i know many players that stopped subbing their accounts from the same reason , as like they say : "EVE become very booing game." you cannot do nothing in small scale , as for sure you will get capital hot drop , that will be few times bigger than numbers of ships currently on grid.

Ha ha, you can say. This is sandbox , we can do it - so we are doing it.
But when you ask why you hot drop every thing you will the same answer : "EVE become very booing game."


KanashiiKami
#103 - 2014-07-06 12:42:04 UTC  |  Edited by: KanashiiKami
additions to previous post
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4775223#post4775223

change the way POS/outposts work
when POS/outposts are destroyed, a wreck remains that decompose over 72hrs. after that, then any new setup can be done over it.

and for any system that requires a TCU to be online, a presence of 3 active POS must be online before TCU can be anchored.

instead of feeding ISK to TCU, CCP should devise it into fuel like POS.

sometimes i think the CSM have already influenced what changes they want CCP to make and these open channels are just for show .... in the end CCP will be forced to make CSM groups happy and the rest just left sucking thumbs

WUT ???

Anthar Thebess
#104 - 2014-07-06 13:14:22 UTC
Actually CCP is in bad position here.
Yes CSM is elected by big player base, big coalition put there most of those people , but at the same place.
Current eve state is prohibiting big new player base to be formed, and what is even worst , this state is directly responsible for reduction of people that actually play.

Don't bring here BRAVE and their acquire of catch , as the only reason why they get it in the first place is those blobs creating them self a place for easy kills and some content.
BRAVE numbers grow, but how many of them actually play?
How many of them are dead and already unsubbed accounts , or old players that just joined them?

Have you checked character baazar recently?
For last years i didn't see so many high level characters sold , so many characters sold for 3/4 or even half of their value.
Gabriel Karade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#105 - 2014-07-06 15:10:53 UTC
WarFireV wrote:

Something that has been brought up a few times, but has not been talked about here yet is the idea of better terrain on the Eve map. Most of the North and the South of the map are flat plains with a bunch of forest for people to hind in(NPC nullsec/lowsec). This make them both very easy to invade. It is just down right impossible for someone to not have a foothold some where if they actually invade.

Any place there is actually some type of gap on the map becomes very powerful to those that own it. I can explain, the dronelands is basically a valley surround by a huge mountain range. There are a few paths you can invade with subcaps, but if you want capitals in there, you have only two ways to get in. There are a few more gaps in the map, like the divide between catch and delve, but not a whole lot more.

Adding in more gaps or some sort of blocks for jump drive. Forcing people to have to use certain gates/systems to go into certain regions, this would go along way to helping out in an overall SOV change. Maybe even moving the NPC nullsec pockets so people cant only just base out of them to defend/attack entire regions. Although let me be clear, if that was the only thing done it would be terrible.
That's a really good point, the landscape in Eve is generally far too 'flat'; having more 'mountains' and 'valleys' - gaps between regions/pockets of space that cannot be traversed by jump drives - would shake things up significantly.

War Machine: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=386293

Heat-seeking Moisture Missile
Deep Thought Labs
#106 - 2014-07-06 15:30:37 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
CHANGES

Arrow Jumprdrives limited jumprange to adjacent system only. (lightyear distance is irrelevant)
Arrow All capitals can use stargates.
Arrow One Jumpbridge per system can only connect to adjacent system (lightyear distance is irrelevant)


Is this a troll?

Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#107 - 2014-07-06 15:54:23 UTC
1. Jumpdrive limited to adjacent system only. It's a dumb idea just no.
2. All capitals can use stargates. Again no. it would be too easy to deagress, jump the gate, then jump to your adjacent system with a cyno.
3. your jump bridge range idea is still really bad. I prefer the limited mass idea. on top of that idea different cynos can be fit. so if you light a small cyno with a stealth bomber you will only be able to bridge 1 carrier as an example.
Belinda HwaFang
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#108 - 2014-07-06 16:49:24 UTC
I wrote quite an essay on this subject but sadly through the wonders of forum web apps it was all piped to /dev/null Sad

TLDR version:

1. People are used to status quo, it's normal to hear them whineif you take away the simply toys they are used to. Look at the outcry from industrialists that they can't just predict their profits by plugging in numbers into EveIPH every day and mass running jobs!

2. To experience some of the magic of EVE Sov, some of the mechanics like Sov levels from the old days , or things which take it out of the control of a small number of supermassive supercapital fleets are welcome.

3. Thank you to the OP for bringing up (again) this important topic.

4. Your ideas could work , but simply removing jump drives all together (without replacing it with something else that is fun) is probably just going to make the (sov) players angry.

5. I choose to live in NPC partly because I see no future in the game in sov.

6. Perhaps this new Rubicon of unexplored space will be the Sov 2.0 , the sov "done right". Let's hope so.

--
Fang
Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#109 - 2014-07-06 17:16:49 UTC
Elusive Panda wrote:

+1 (except the NPC trader thingy... find a better way to fix that).

To everyone saying that implementing those idea would make logistics impossible to keep things running on the current scale, that's the whole point of the changes proposed.

We're not looking for a solution that would do nothing, they HAVE TO make sustaining such incredibly large empire ~impossible or very tedious. The current status quo is the worst thing to happen in EVE in a long time. 2 coalitions with infinite income, agreeing to not attack each other, 2 smaller coaliton who are permitted to exist to generate "gud fights" for the line members. It's artificial, I love good fights like anybody else, but if it's ONLY fighting for the sake of fighting all the time, we're losing the sense of purpose here.

Maybe we could take a look at how WH corp lives and the mechanics in which they live in? I'm not saying turn all space to WH mechanics, but maybe we can learn something about it, there is no "supreme overlord" of WH space, everything happens on a much smaller scale. These corp do not have access to a JF and yet, they still manage to exist, don't they?

You could argue with me that they have much less jumps to do to reach empire space and resupply compared to the furthest 0.0 regions and that's true, maybe player buildable (and destructable) stargate would be the answer? Imagine, you live in Period Basis with your own little alliance who control the region and then you build a smuggler like stargate that links to querious and another one from there to Khanid. So in a very respectable number of jumps, you could be in low-sec empire space and then make your way to a trade hub.

You would need to patrol the supply pipe(s) and escort transport ship (Deep space transport with more cargo than they currently have could be nice here, mini-freighter designed for... deep space, you know?).
Moving large fleets could still be possible throught this new player made network of long range gate, but would be much more localized, static, predictable and counterable.


I would caution smugglers gates and streamlining gate travel as it could only strengthen power projection. People who live in the outlying areas of space should do so because its more remote and space further from empire should be richer. Again the idea with a power projection nerf would be to create new mechanics that allow nullsec groups to get rid of the tether to empire.


@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#110 - 2014-07-06 17:22:37 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

The "little guy" that everyone keeps referring to has access to NPC nullsec. The problem is that there's not a lot of npc null, not enough anyway and what there is has become quite crowded. Which is why I advocate expanding NPC nullsec space at the expense of sov-nullsec.

If CCP wants more players in nullsec, then we need more NPC nullsec space.



The little guy will just get camped into those NPC stations by mega coalitions when the little guy pisses off the mega coalition.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#111 - 2014-07-06 17:23:34 UTC
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Speedkermit Damo wrote:

The "little guy" that everyone keeps referring to has access to NPC nullsec. The problem is that there's not a lot of npc null, not enough anyway and what there is has become quite crowded. Which is why I advocate expanding NPC nullsec space at the expense of sov-nullsec.

If CCP wants more players in nullsec, then we need more NPC nullsec space.



The little guy will just get camped into those NPC stations by mega coalitions when the little guy pisses off the mega coalition.


Why is that a problem? I'm serious. People are allowed to lose, you realize.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#112 - 2014-07-06 17:27:54 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:



If we nerf moving ships, by making bridging or jumping harder, then large alliances will preposition ships about their territory. This will require more ships, which means the average ship size will take a down tick. Many may think this is a move in the right direction; having supercarriers instead of Titans, carriers in place of supers, etc. But when null was battlecruiser blobs, people still said it was a problem that people blobbed.

.


With the changes I suggested groups will only be holding the sov in which they can use/need. Because unused or underutilized space will cost them more money and be easier to take. I mean you will still be seeing very large blobs on special occasions as in " ZOMG THESE BAD GUYS OVER HERE ARE TAKING OUR MAIN STATION WE NEED HELP". This will spur very large fights that create headlines. But the frequency of them will be smaller.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#113 - 2014-07-06 18:00:25 UTC
Perhaps the concession that needs to happen from my original suggestion is: A logistic capital remains with current jumpfreighter range that can haul any base mineral or component or bpo/bpc. I still hate this idea because I can see it being abused so groups can power project. So a capital that can haul fuel blocks minerals t2 components gas components and wh components.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Manfred Sideous
H A V O C
Fraternity.
#114 - 2014-07-06 18:55:52 UTC
Belinda HwaFang wrote:
I wrote quite an essay on this subject but sadly through the wonders of forum web apps it was all piped to /dev/null Sad

TLDR version:

1. People are used to status quo, it's normal to hear them whineif you take away the simply toys they are used to. Look at the outcry from industrialists that they can't just predict their profits by plugging in numbers into EveIPH every day and mass running jobs!

2. To experience some of the magic of EVE Sov, some of the mechanics like Sov levels from the old days , or things which take it out of the control of a small number of supermassive supercapital fleets are welcome.

3. Thank you to the OP for bringing up (again) this important topic.

4. Your ideas could work , but simply removing jump drives all together (without replacing it with something else that is fun) is probably just going to make the (sov) players angry.

5. I choose to live in NPC partly because I see no future in the game in sov.

6. Perhaps this new Rubicon of unexplored space will be the Sov 2.0 , the sov "done right". Let's hope so.

--
Fang



I guess we shall see.

@EveManny

https://twitter.com/EveManny

Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#115 - 2014-07-06 19:44:36 UTC
Csn you provide me a reason to join sov null? This is an important first question.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#116 - 2014-07-06 19:46:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Corraidhin Farsaidh
Manfred Sideous wrote:
Belinda HwaFang wrote:
I wrote quite an essay on this subject but sadly through the wonders of forum web apps it was all piped to /dev/null Sad

TLDR version:

1. People are used to status quo, it's normal to hear them whineif you take away the simply toys they are used to. Look at the outcry from industrialists that they can't just predict their profits by plugging in numbers into EveIPH every day and mass running jobs!

2. To experience some of the magic of EVE Sov, some of the mechanics like Sov levels from the old days , or things which take it out of the control of a small number of supermassive supercapital fleets are welcome.

3. Thank you to the OP for bringing up (again) this important topic.

4. Your ideas could work , but simply removing jump drives all together (without replacing it with something else that is fun) is probably just going to make the (sov) players angry.

5. I choose to live in NPC partly because I see no future in the game in sov.

6. Perhaps this new Rubicon of unexplored space will be the Sov 2.0 , the sov "done right". Let's hope so.

--
Fang



I guess we shall see.


I hope they allow for no sov whatsoever so the only way you can control the space is with actual pilot and force presence.

I also hope that the new space is so unstable it doesn't allow for anything bigger than a BC or BS without tearing it apart due to space environment problems, gravitational flux, giant monsters with a taste for cap ships, whatevers...

Ed: The giant space monster idea is really growing on me...they could be big blue and fuzzy and yell 'Cookies!...' every time they eat a carrier...
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#117 - 2014-07-06 19:55:19 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Csn you provide me a reason to join sov null? This is an important first question.

Industry. It's the only reason really. PvP in low sec is where its at. PvP in null is pretty boring.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#118 - 2014-07-06 21:47:44 UTC
Tredionis wrote:

Big blocs should become content for small entites not the way around becouse there is noting that can change red vs blue in null becouse all decisions in Eve are dictated by isk

Spot on!
And It is unfortunate that content designed to that effect, like ESS or siphons, get either nerfed to uselessness for small groups even before they enter the game, or use in-game exploits to change their original design intents...

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#119 - 2014-07-06 22:02:19 UTC
Allison A'vani wrote:
I
Basically the entire 0.0 outside of border regions to empire space would be abandoned and you would see a mass exodus back to high/low sec.
.

Wrong..
There are some types of players that would settle it, with all these difficulties.. It would not become abandoned.
After all, wh space is being settled too.
Sure, it would not be the current type of players that currently enjoy their null sect riches without much risks... Those would leave null sec Big smile

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project

Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#120 - 2014-07-06 22:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Saisin
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Hm, you know, with the new Region and/or Regions opening up in hopefully near future expansions, we might actually start to see some answers to a lot of these concerns. Its possible CCP might even give us the cake and let us eat it too. Current regions/sov mechanics may be left as-is, and who knows what possibilities will be open with the new region.

Perhaps they will be set up in a way that doesn't support projection, or allows for independant self-contained sustenance. We shall see. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

Agreed!
Rather tha fundamentally changing things in existing space, create new space that takes in account the issues highlighted by all the existing space types. After all, the introduction of WH was a success, at least for me, it kept me in the game. Big smile

The SOV grinding mechanics still need to be addressed though,to make the gameplay more engaging.

Vote Borat Guereen for CSM XII

Check out the Minarchist Space Project