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Forest Camo In Space Is Dumb

Author
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#81 - 2014-07-06 07:47:13 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
It's a stretch, but I suppose you could say the digital camo on the ships is there to distort the thermal signature. Make the ship look like "noise" rather than a defined outline.


There Ain't No Stealth In Space
"The Space Shuttle's much weaker main engines could be detected past the orbit of Pluto. The Space Shuttle's manoeuvering thrusters could be seen as far as the asteroid belt. And even a puny ship using ion drive to thrust at a measly 1/1000 of a g could be spotted at one astronomical unit."

I don't think muddling one's heat signature is going to make a bit of difference. Especially given how much energy EVE ships radiate.



That's assuming you don't do crazy stuff like place a refrigerated heat shield between your engines and your target, with the head being radiated out into space in the opposite direction. A bit of clever engineering and careful science-ing will leave you with a ship that is hard to detect except for the occasional occultation.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#82 - 2014-07-06 08:10:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Mara Rinn wrote:
That's assuming you don't do crazy stuff like place a refrigerated heat shield between your engines and your target, with the head being radiated out into space in the opposite direction. A bit of clever engineering and careful science-ing will leave you with a ship that is hard to detect except for the occasional occultation.

Scroll down to “Well I'll just beam my heat the other way!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#83 - 2014-07-06 12:51:07 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Since the visuals don't matter, forest camo is no more or less dumb than any other, so you might as well paint the ship in whatever looks good or has some historical significance.


I want Hello Kitty prints on my ships.

Increases survivabilty with 200% as enemy will be too busy laughing while I run away cause they forgot to activate their tackle and guns.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#84 - 2014-07-06 13:51:47 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Actually, it's not all that bad.
Edit: the use of word there isn't a reflection of anything.
as far as I'm aware it was rather effective, looked awesome and irritated the **** out of the top brass, allround winBig smile
Dazzle Camo is awesome



That's a very old picture (using the old white on blue Dutch licence plates gave it away).

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#85 - 2014-07-06 13:56:16 UTC
Private is called to the General.

General: "Private, I missed you during camo practise."
Private: "Thanks for the compliment Sir."

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Lucretia DeWinter
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2014-07-06 14:03:38 UTC
HM Government official strategy on camouflage and concealment is equally applicable to all theaters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zekiZYSVdeQ

Rubishod
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#87 - 2014-07-06 14:45:48 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:


BDUs are all the same.


Never served international, eh?
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#88 - 2014-07-06 15:32:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Xavier Liche
Tippia wrote:
polly papercut wrote:
The patch is the unit identifier the camo is not.
…and yet it is an identifier for the unit that can hold historic significance just like any other marking, as it is doing today and has done multiple times in the past. Or are you saying that ODs don't show history? What about m/39s? What about redcoats? What about the prætorian sash?

Or are you just futilely trying to pick away at a single word in the hope that it will somehow undo the entire history of military design choices?

Quote:
Seeing as how the older patteern is only from 2002. The camo has no historic significance.
Yeah, see, “historical significance” is not limited to what's currently old or new. The WTC attacks are of historical significance, and they're only from 2001. The banking collapse is of historical significance and it is only from 2008. The Ukranian revolution is of historical significance and it is only from 2014.

A pattern from 2002 is of historical significance because it signals that this is a unit from the early 21st century. It'll be very helpful for identification purposes by 2100. Whether it'll symbolise something that's worth preserving and re-enacting is a a question for the future.

Qalix wrote:
while you're asking questions about camo in space, you should also ask why spaceships have lights on them.
So you know which side to pass them on in the shipping lanes. P


Stop, a unit is a small group, like the 1/325 in the 82nd Airborne, the pattern is not "per unit" all units in the Army where the same thing if they are located in the same place. The pattern is location specific, desert, jungle, etc.

The pattern has N O T H I N G to do with identifying the unit.

All this shows is you have never served and are talking out your ass.
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#89 - 2014-07-06 15:58:15 UTC
Rubishod wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:


BDUs are all the same.


Never served international, eh?


Obiously not.

BDUs of countries are different as much as green is a different color from red.

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Lady Areola Fappington
#90 - 2014-07-06 16:19:38 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:


Stop, a unit is a small group, like the 1/325 in the 82nd Airborne, the pattern is not "per unit" all units in the Army where the same thing if they are located in the same place. The pattern is location specific, desert, jungle, etc.

The pattern has N O T H I N G to do with identifying the unit.

All this shows is you have never served and are talking out your ass.



Hi, I've served. Sure, in each individual branch, camo is (mostly) the same. Most people though, see the US military is one big huge lump. In that situation, yes, different camo lets you tell the difference between, say, a sailor and an airman.

Hell, just on that topic, go research the early days and development of MARPAT. It was such a good design, other branches wanted to use it. The Marines threw a huge snitfit over it, and went as far as integrating the EGA into the camo pattern itself, to keep other branches from using it.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#91 - 2014-07-06 16:45:48 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:
Stop, a unit is a small group, like the 1/325 in the 82nd Airborne, the pattern is not "per unit" all units in the Army where the same thing if they are located in the same place. The pattern is location specific, desert, jungle, etc.

The pattern has N O T H I N G to do with identifying the unit.
…aside from telling you something about what unit it is, like the details you just mentioned, even down to pinpointing a time and place for its existence. The pattern, like all other markings, is something that identifies the unit.

You see, the very novel concept that you apparently can't get into your tiny little military brain (and as someone who teaches people with these kinds of brains and who sees all kinds of patterns go by outside my office window due to the number and variety of visitors we get from all over the globe, I can speak with some authority on the matter… see how that works? Do you really want to go down that particular route?) is that it doesn't have to be “per unit” to do this. It just have to be different from other patterns used by other groups at other times and/or in other places.

If, for instance and for some inconceivable reason, someone would want to immortalise an USMC field unit from the early 21st centry, you bet your arse that MARPAT would be a component in that tribute.
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#92 - 2014-07-06 16:47:16 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:


Stop, a unit is a small group, like the 1/325 in the 82nd Airborne, the pattern is not "per unit" all units in the Army where the same thing if they are located in the same place. The pattern is location specific, desert, jungle, etc.

The pattern has N O T H I N G to do with identifying the unit.

All this shows is you have never served and are talking out your ass.



Hi, I've served. Sure, in each individual branch, camo is (mostly) the same. Most people though, see the US military is one big huge lump. In that situation, yes, different camo lets you tell the difference between, say, a sailor and an airman.

Hell, just on that topic, go research the early days and development of MARPAT. It was such a good design, other branches wanted to use it. The Marines threw a huge snitfit over it, and went as far as integrating the EGA into the camo pattern itself, to keep other branches from using it.


The camo pattern you wear comes from the location you deploy. If you deploy to the desert you wear desert camo.

The purpose is to hide soldiers and equipment from view by blending in to the terrain and it has nothing to do with unit identification.

It is that simple, and if you served then you know this, they teach in basic training.


"But I don't want to wear forest camo in the desert, they will see me??!!!??"

"Shutup soldier, it is our unit colors"

Shocked

It is preposterous on the face of it.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#93 - 2014-07-06 16:49:07 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:
"But I don't want to wear forest camo in the desert, they will see me??!!!??"
"Shutup soldier, it is our unit colors"

Shocked

It is preposterous on the face of it.

That's because it's a nonsensical strawman that you've invented.
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#94 - 2014-07-06 16:52:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:
Stop, a unit is a small group, like the 1/325 in the 82nd Airborne, the pattern is not "per unit" all units in the Army where the same thing if they are located in the same place. The pattern is location specific, desert, jungle, etc.

The pattern has N O T H I N G to do with identifying the unit.
…aside from telling you something about what unit it is, like the details you just mentioned, even down to pinpointing a time and place for its existence. The pattern, like all other markings, is something that identifies the unit.

You see, the very novel concept that you apparently can't get into your tiny little military brain (and as someone who teaches people with these kinds of brains and who sees all kinds of patterns go by outside my office window due to the number and variety of visitors we get from all over the globe, I can speak with some authority on the matter… see how that works? Do you really want to go down that particular route?) is that it doesn't have to be “per unit” to do this. It just have to be different from other patterns used by other groups at other times and/or in other places.

If, for instance and for some inconceivable reason, someone would want to immortalise an USMC field unit from the early 21st centry, you bet your arse that MARPAT would be a component in that tribute.


lol, do you have any idea how silly you sound, you are posting random stuff you looked up and you don't realize it doesn't "go" together, that is how I know you did not serve. Keep making stuff up, you are entertaining the troops P
Lady Areola Fappington
#95 - 2014-07-06 16:58:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Areola Fappington
Xavier Liche wrote:


The camo pattern you wear comes from the location you deploy. If you deploy to the desert you wear desert camo.

The purpose is to hide soldiers and equipment from view by blending in to the terrain and it has nothing to do with unit identification.

It is that simple, and if you served then you know this, they teach in basic training.


"But I don't want to wear forest camo in the desert, they will see me??!!!??"

"Shutup soldier, it is our unit colors"

Shocked

It is preposterous on the face of it.



I served during the minor kerfluffle of the ACU. Back in that time, the ACU pattern was the only pattern we needed no matter what, anywhere in the world. Yeah, it was silly.

Last I heard, they're rolling out some more specifically desert colored digicam style camo, for sandbox stuff.


As an addendum to your statement, I actually did see a situation like that. A unit from Germany replaced my unit for OIF 5, and they brought all their woodland colored vehicles over to the desert. They didn't repaint, because having woodland camo trucks singled them out among the masses of desert painted trucks. Unit pride, yo.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#96 - 2014-07-06 17:02:14 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:
lol, do you have any idea how silly you sound, you are posting random stuff you looked up and you don't realize it doesn't "go" together, that is how I know you did not serve. Keep making stuff up, you are entertaining the troops P

I can't help noticing that you are unable to actually refute anything I say and instead have to invent all kinds of new pathetic fantasy stories to make your previous hallucinations match with how things have evolved… I have some splendid copypasta ready for just such kinds of occasions, but I'll spare you.

So yeah, camo, like all other markings and colourations, is a unit identifier and as such can gain some kind of significance over time. The notion that a tribute to a historical unit would include its famous camo pattern isn't exactly unimaginable, as you have come to realise in spite of not wanting to admit it.
Xavier Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
#97 - 2014-07-06 19:05:54 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:
lol, do you have any idea how silly you sound, you are posting random stuff you looked up and you don't realize it doesn't "go" together, that is how I know you did not serve. Keep making stuff up, you are entertaining the troops P

I can't help noticing that you are unable to actually refute anything I say and instead have to invent all kinds of new pathetic fantasy stories to make your previous hallucinations match with how things have evolved… I have some splendid copypasta ready for just such kinds of occasions, but I'll spare you.

So yeah, camo, like all other markings and colourations, is a unit identifier and as such can gain some kind of significance over time. The notion that a tribute to a historical unit would include its famous camo pattern isn't exactly unimaginable, as you have come to realise in spite of not wanting to admit it.


There is nothing to refute, the plain and obvious purpose for camo is to visually hide the person or equipment. You, a civilian, has made up some historical purpose to support a dumb design in a game.

Space ships do not need to be hidden visually and if they did, camo from a planets surface, would be the incorrect type.

No matter how much you troll with off the wall posts you got from reading some internet site, you cannot change those basic facts.
masternerdguy
Doomheim
#98 - 2014-07-06 19:09:59 UTC
Xavier Liche wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Xavier Liche wrote:
lol, do you have any idea how silly you sound, you are posting random stuff you looked up and you don't realize it doesn't "go" together, that is how I know you did not serve. Keep making stuff up, you are entertaining the troops P

I can't help noticing that you are unable to actually refute anything I say and instead have to invent all kinds of new pathetic fantasy stories to make your previous hallucinations match with how things have evolved… I have some splendid copypasta ready for just such kinds of occasions, but I'll spare you.

So yeah, camo, like all other markings and colourations, is a unit identifier and as such can gain some kind of significance over time. The notion that a tribute to a historical unit would include its famous camo pattern isn't exactly unimaginable, as you have come to realise in spite of not wanting to admit it.


There is nothing to refute, the plain and obvious purpose for camo is to visually hide the person or equipment. You, a civilian, has made up some historical purpose to support a dumb design in a game.

Space ships do not need to be hidden visually and if they did, camo from a planets surface, would be the incorrect type.

No matter how much you troll with off the wall posts you got from reading some internet site, you cannot change those basic facts.


There is no stealth in space.

Therefore, the paint job of the ship is purely an artistic decision.

Things are only impossible until they are not.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#99 - 2014-07-06 19:24:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Xavier Liche wrote:
There is nothing to refute
Incorrect.
There is just nothing you are able to refute. There's a difference. Your continued attempts to cover this and having nothing but fallacies to (not actually) support you just proves me more and more right every time you fail at it.

Quote:
You, a civilian, has made up some historical purpose to support a dumb design in a game.
Nope. That's just some dumb strawman you've made up along with your feeble attempts at trying to justify your very obvious mistakes about… oh, just about everything. Maybe if you took the time to read what I write instead of just half-arsing it and filling in the gaps vast yawning chasms with spectacularly ignorant guesswork on your part, you'd be in a better position to actually argue against what I say.

Quote:
Space ships do not need to be hidden visually and if they did, camo from a planets surface, would be the incorrect type.
…and since it serves no such purpose, the paint scheme can be anything you like. It could, for instance, be a tribute to some famous or historically significant unit.

Quote:
No matter how much you troll with off the wall posts you got from reading some internet site, you cannot change those basic facts.
Good thing that I do none of those things then, and instead provide you with the basic facts you are so desperately trying to dismiss without reason, without argument, and without any kind of connection to reality. Facts such as how all kinds of colourations, designs, and markers can gain historical significance and thus be very important to retain or call back to for those who feel they have to maintain that legacy.
James Nikolas Tesla
Tesla Holdings
#100 - 2014-07-07 01:41:35 UTC
I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't want camo, I want pin up girls to put on the side of my ship. Something to keep my warm in those cold, lonely asteroid belts.

CODE is just a bunch of pirates; smart, organized pirates. It doesn't help to rage at them because that is exactly what they want. Dust yourself off and get back on your feet, you don't even have to talk to them.