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Possible Rorqual Rebirth
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Deornoth Drake
Vandeo
#21 - 2014-07-05 06:05:04 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
...

The primary problem with the Rorqual is that it is supposed to be a deep space base, but it needs a POS to operate. I suggest that we keep the siege mode. However, when in siege, the Rorqual gets POS bubble. it becomes a POS. It should have a large number of hit points and then go into reinforced, however, the reinforcement should be like a mobile depot's reinforced mode. Where the mobile depot can just be scooped up and the reinforcement is over, the Rorqual can just shut off its siege and end the reinforcement. So basically, the Rorqual gets an invulnerability bubble. Now only industrial ships can enter the bubble. And from within the bubble, only the Rorqual can lock targets and send drones out, tractor cans, etc. Any other ships hiding in the bubble can't lock targets or tractor or anything. Just like being in a POS. Also, give the deactivation of the siege/POS a 30 second 'cool down' where the ship can still align and warp out while being invulnerable.

Yes, allow the Rorqual to bridge indy ships to cynos.

...

Great idea with the POS shield like bubble!
In contrast to POS shield the Rorqual pilot should be able to target things and control his drones through the shield.
This way you could siege in a belt providing mining boost, gathering containers and supporting your miners (drone dps, reps, ...)
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#22 - 2014-07-05 09:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Mole Guy
Deornoth Drake wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
...

The primary problem with the Rorqual is that it is supposed to be a deep space base, but it needs a POS to operate. I suggest that we keep the siege mode. However, when in siege, the Rorqual gets POS bubble. it becomes a POS. It should have a large number of hit points and then go into reinforced, however, the reinforcement should be like a mobile depot's reinforced mode. Where the mobile depot can just be scooped up and the reinforcement is over, the Rorqual can just shut off its siege and end the reinforcement. So basically, the Rorqual gets an invulnerability bubble. Now only industrial ships can enter the bubble. And from within the bubble, only the Rorqual can lock targets and send drones out, tractor cans, etc. Any other ships hiding in the bubble can't lock targets or tractor or anything. Just like being in a POS. Also, give the deactivation of the siege/POS a 30 second 'cool down' where the ship can still align and warp out while being invulnerable.

Yes, allow the Rorqual to bridge indy ships to cynos.

...

Great idea with the POS shield like bubble!
In contrast to POS shield the Rorqual pilot should be able to target things and control his drones through the shield.
This way you could siege in a belt providing mining boost, gathering containers and supporting your miners (drone dps, reps, ...)


invulnerability?
we shot this suggestion down over a year ago. thats crazy talk.
a mobile pos? so you have a bubble and when the baddies get on ya. they cant shoot ya, but they know youll be coming out...they call friends. they lie in wait...


the idea of the cyno jammer wouldnt be good either in my opinion.
it just needs to be a ship. a ship that can be shot. a ship that can boost and do all the things a normal ship can.
but it either needs to separate boost from links or shorten the core timer. 5 minutes to sit in a belt and boost?

a dread sieging make HUGE dps.
a carrier in triage gives AWESOME reps to fleet.
but a rorqual in siege gives a few fleet links that other ships can give but no other ship in game has to be locked down for 5 minutes to do?
not. titans can boost, carriers, command ships...none of them have to siege.

it also needs to mine. we loose a lot stepping up to a rorqual or an orca. ok, yes we get a big barge that helps OTHER people mine...but damn.

right now, i use mine as a jf that doesnt go into high sec. i have an orca to sit in the pos all day for links. 20% less bonus, but 100% less fuel and 1.8B cheaper.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#23 - 2014-07-05 16:38:24 UTC
Mole Guy wrote:
right now, i use mine as a jf that doesnt go into high sec. i have an orca to sit in the pos all day for links. 20% less bonus, but 100% less fuel and 1.8B cheaper.

And this is the crux of the issue. The risk does not equate to the reward. That does need fixing.
DrysonBennington
Eagle's Talon's
#24 - 2014-07-05 17:36:04 UTC
What about scrapping the Rorqual completely and instead taking the best attributes from the ship and build it into an Orca II version?
Mole Guy
Bob's Bait and Tackle
#25 - 2014-07-05 19:49:03 UTC
DrysonBennington wrote:
What about scrapping the Rorqual completely and instead taking the best attributes from the ship and build it into an Orca II version?

forget that, i love the ship even though it has its flaws.

it needs a lot of lovin.
there is a huge need for a cap ship, but the bonuses need to fit the ship, not just random.
it was a good attempt but pvpers to make a care bear cap ship.
now, let carebears (with teeth) redesign it.

we see that jump bridging works. and with the blops, spec ships can be flung through space as well. these are industrial ships, cant be OPto throw a hulk several jumps into a belt and let us PVP mercoxit can it?

we do not need a cargo scanner on an industrial.

what good is a survey scanner distance bonus if it cannot mine? to sit and tell others which roids to mine first as we cut em all? i mean the only time we would take a rorqual out is if we had alliance support.

the drone control range is too short. limit it to heavies. they work well, i love my sentries, but when they cant hit out past 60 or 70k without gimping the fit... keep the 20% to damage and give it 20% to optimal and fall off.
also, it would need a control range bonus to hit out there. 250k-300k range is good. i mean the ship isnt going anywhere, youll have time for ogres to run out and beat up some rats the meander back. in some of those ice belts, the ice blocks are 200k apart.

the shield boost range is great.

range. it needs range. jump range increase...

and, it needs to be able to mine. either with larger drones or a strip miner. give it a 200% bonus to a standard stripper. wouldnt need to create a new module. just give it 1 stripper. and we could put modulated on it, it really wouldnt matter.
it would be limited to 1 roid like the skiff is. and with a vacuum like mining ammount, youll constantly be switching and running out of roids. we gave up a lot of ore to get in that ship. no other command ship has to give up damage or use to boost.

another idea was the capital mining drones. the rorqual could launch +1 per rorqual level.

reduce the siege timer. there is nothing you can give this ship that would justify it being in a belt locked down with a timer of death running. 1 minute is a life time when neuts jump in system. diligent inty pilots can catch it, while crafty rorqual pilots, MIGHT be able to escape.

an alternative, separate the boost and siege mode. let it siege to compress ore, but not boost.
or, give it orca boost without siege and what it currently has now WHILE in siege mode. an orca should never out boost a rorqual in or out of siege. if they do this, ill take my rorqual to the belt.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2014-07-05 21:14:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Paynus Maiassus
Mole Guy wrote:
Deornoth Drake wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
...

The primary problem with the Rorqual is that it is supposed to be a deep space base, but it needs a POS to operate. I suggest that we keep the siege mode. However, when in siege, the Rorqual gets POS bubble. it becomes a POS. It should have a large number of hit points and then go into reinforced, however, the reinforcement should be like a mobile depot's reinforced mode. Where the mobile depot can just be scooped up and the reinforcement is over, the Rorqual can just shut off its siege and end the reinforcement. So basically, the Rorqual gets an invulnerability bubble. Now only industrial ships can enter the bubble. And from within the bubble, only the Rorqual can lock targets and send drones out, tractor cans, etc. Any other ships hiding in the bubble can't lock targets or tractor or anything. Just like being in a POS. Also, give the deactivation of the siege/POS a 30 second 'cool down' where the ship can still align and warp out while being invulnerable.

Yes, allow the Rorqual to bridge indy ships to cynos.

...

Great idea with the POS shield like bubble!
In contrast to POS shield the Rorqual pilot should be able to target things and control his drones through the shield.
This way you could siege in a belt providing mining boost, gathering containers and supporting your miners (drone dps, reps, ...)


invulnerability?
we shot this suggestion down over a year ago. thats crazy talk.
a mobile pos? so you have a bubble and when the baddies get on ya. they cant shoot ya, but they know youll be coming out...they call friends. they lie in wait...


the idea of the cyno jammer wouldnt be good either in my opinion.
it just needs to be a ship. a ship that can be shot. a ship that can boost and do all the things a normal ship can.
but it either needs to separate boost from links or shorten the core timer. 5 minutes to sit in a belt and boost?

a dread sieging make HUGE dps.
a carrier in triage gives AWESOME reps to fleet.
but a rorqual in siege gives a few fleet links that other ships can give but no other ship in game has to be locked down for 5 minutes to do?
not. titans can boost, carriers, command ships...none of them have to siege.

it also needs to mine. we loose a lot stepping up to a rorqual or an orca. ok, yes we get a big barge that helps OTHER people mine...but damn.

right now, i use mine as a jf that doesnt go into high sec. i have an orca to sit in the pos all day for links. 20% less bonus, but 100% less fuel and 1.8B cheaper.


Why should we listen to you if you don't read the posts that you are responding to? I stated in my post that the POS bubble would have a cool down period in which the Rorq could align and warp or cyno out. I also said that a reinforced Rorqual POS bubble could still be recalled. So if you're sieged in your POS bubble mining, everybody can head to the bubble and deposit their barges in the POS. The Rorq can continue the siege until he runs out of heavy water. If they reinforce him, he can continue the siege until he runs out of stront. But at any time before one of these two things happen he can go red on the siege, and when the cycle ends he gets 30 seconds of invulnerability at which time he can cyno out. Just like a JF undocking from a station gets 30 seconds of invulnerability after undocking until he jumps. The mechanic exists for ships that undock, why can't it exist for a Rorqual?

Whoever shot the idea down was stupid because it's the only idea that will work. A dreadnought sitting in a belt will die. A Titan sitting in a belt will die. No amount of jiggering numbers and buffing existing defenses will keep a Rorqual alive. EWAR immunity will only make it so that you can mine until someone shows up. None of these ideas will change anything. The reason that ships get 30 seconds of cloak when entering a system, and the reason that ships get 30 seconds of invulnerability when undocking, is because that's what it takes to make cynoing capitals possible. If it didn't happen, the game would be broke.

Well, the reason nobody mines in low sec is because the risk vs. reward isn't there. I saw your other post about your proposed Rorqual changes. And you would take that ship into belts until you ran out of ISK covering your losses for replacing it.

I really want the devs to read this. No amount of buffing this or that statistic of the Rorqual will work. It needs an invulnerability mode or nothing will change. Period.

EDIT: Oh, and giving a Rorqual strip miners and making it into a huge mining barge is completely and utterly ridiculous. Between that suggestion and the fact that you did not read my post gives me doubts about your credibility.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-07-05 21:36:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Paynus Maiassus
Deornoth Drake wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
...

The primary problem with the Rorqual is that it is supposed to be a deep space base, but it needs a POS to operate. I suggest that we keep the siege mode. However, when in siege, the Rorqual gets POS bubble. it becomes a POS. It should have a large number of hit points and then go into reinforced, however, the reinforcement should be like a mobile depot's reinforced mode. Where the mobile depot can just be scooped up and the reinforcement is over, the Rorqual can just shut off its siege and end the reinforcement. So basically, the Rorqual gets an invulnerability bubble. Now only industrial ships can enter the bubble. And from within the bubble, only the Rorqual can lock targets and send drones out, tractor cans, etc. Any other ships hiding in the bubble can't lock targets or tractor or anything. Just like being in a POS. Also, give the deactivation of the siege/POS a 30 second 'cool down' where the ship can still align and warp out while being invulnerable.

Yes, allow the Rorqual to bridge indy ships to cynos.

...

Great idea with the POS shield like bubble!
In contrast to POS shield the Rorqual pilot should be able to target things and control his drones through the shield.
This way you could siege in a belt providing mining boost, gathering containers and supporting your miners (drone dps, reps, ...)


Correct. The Rorqual with bubble siege should be able to target belt rats and send drones after them in order to make the mining fleet able to handle the hellacious rats in null sec ore sites without requiring combat support. Since MTUs should not be operable in the bubble, the Rorqual's tractor would work to collect the cans. When bad guys come, all the barges can head to the POS bubble should for safety. THEY, however, should not be able to target anything from within the bubble. They will have to be outside the bubble to mine. However, they can run to it and hide. Any drones from those barges should either be return and orbit when the barges enter the bubble, or they should be disconnected and require a reconnect again outside the bubble. Often one unlucky barge will get tackled though, but that guy can be repped by the Rorqual's massive shield boosts. Hopefully he will be able to slowboat back to the Rorq's bubble before he is webbed into immobility. So in any attack, most of the fleet will survive, and often all of the fleet will survive. Maybe a skiff will die every once and a while. THAT is what I call acceptable risk vs. reward. Hunting deep space mining ops should not be about getting a Rorqual kill. They should be about seeing how many skiffs you get. PvPers looking to attack miners should be required to have enough tackle to capture a few barges and shut them down. They should have enough tank to withstand drone counterattack from the Rorqual and whatever skiffs get caught outside the bubble. That is an exciting PvP situation that requires attention, preparation, and competence, and most importantly, an acceptable level of risk vs. reward for BOTH sides.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-07-05 21:54:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Paynus Maiassus
Oops. Posted twice.
Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2014-07-05 22:35:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Adira Nictor
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Deornoth Drake wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
...

The primary problem with the Rorqual is that it is supposed to be a deep space base, but it needs a POS to operate. I suggest that we keep the siege mode. However, when in siege, the Rorqual gets POS bubble. it becomes a POS. It should have a large number of hit points and then go into reinforced, however, the reinforcement should be like a mobile depot's reinforced mode. Where the mobile depot can just be scooped up and the reinforcement is over, the Rorqual can just shut off its siege and end the reinforcement. So basically, the Rorqual gets an invulnerability bubble. Now only industrial ships can enter the bubble. And from within the bubble, only the Rorqual can lock targets and send drones out, tractor cans, etc. Any other ships hiding in the bubble can't lock targets or tractor or anything. Just like being in a POS. Also, give the deactivation of the siege/POS a 30 second 'cool down' where the ship can still align and warp out while being invulnerable.

Yes, allow the Rorqual to bridge indy ships to cynos.

...

Great idea with the POS shield like bubble!
In contrast to POS shield the Rorqual pilot should be able to target things and control his drones through the shield.
This way you could siege in a belt providing mining boost, gathering containers and supporting your miners (drone dps, reps, ...)


Correct. The Rorqual with bubble siege should be able to target belt rats and send drones after them in order to make the mining fleet able to handle the hellacious rats in null sec ore sites without requiring combat support. Since MTUs should not be operable in the bubble, the Rorqual's tractor would work to collect the cans. When bad guys come, all the barges can head to the POS bubble should for safety. THEY, however, should not be able to target anything from within the bubble. They will have to be outside the bubble to mine. However, they can run to it and hide. Any drones from those barges should either be return and orbit when the barges enter the bubble, or they should be disconnected and require a reconnect again outside the bubble. Often one unlucky barge will get tackled though, but that guy can be repped by the Rorqual's massive shield boosts. Hopefully he will be able to slowboat back to the Rorq's bubble before he is webbed into immobility. So in any attack, most of the fleet will survive, and often all of the fleet will survive. Maybe a skiff will die every once and a while. THAT is what I call acceptable risk vs. reward. Hunting deep space mining ops should not be about getting a Rorqual kill. They should be about seeing how many skiffs you get. PvPers looking to attack miners should be required to have enough tackle to capture a few barges and shut them down. They should have enough tank to withstand drone counterattack from the Rorqual and whatever skiffs get caught outside the bubble. That is an exciting PvP situation that requires attention, preparation, and competence, and most importantly, an acceptable level of risk vs. reward for BOTH sides.



I am not going to go find it, its in the old forum archives somewhere, but a pos shield on the rorqual was talked about ages ago. CCP said they couldn't do it because the pos bubble would bounce asteroids and other things all over the place. I imagine it was quite a funny thing to see.


That being said, I would agree to this pos bubble idea (assuming ccp figured out the bugs in it), if and only if once the rorqual is reinforced its suck that way until it runs out of stront, or the aggression timer runs out. Max time on reinforced could only be a few hours, Its not like your inactive and don't know that your rorqual has been attacked. This would give your friends and fleets time to show up and defend the rorqual.

The shield bubble would only work when the Rorqual is in siege mode, and would consume Heavy water for fuel, siege time can be reduced to 1 min, so rorqual can run away if needed.

While reinforced, the rorqual loses drone control, and all cap as the reactor is busy keeping the shields reinforced. Cap boosters have no effect, and lockable targets is reduced to 0.

Total HP of a rorqual that is sieged would be around 2x a dread and would get no boosts or ewar immunity that other ships enjoy.

This pos bubble could only be put online if you are further then 500km from any pos/planet/moon/station/sun

There would be no invulnerability of any kind except for normal cases, like undocking/jumping.

I could thing of some very nasty uses for a ship like this, even if only indy ships could be put inside the shields.


EDITING: Cleared up a few things, read 2 posts down to see why.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-07-05 22:54:41 UTC
Marsan wrote:
The basic problem isthat it seems like CCP wants to figure out how to convince people to bring on out to a belt or site and siege it. I can't see anyone wanting to do that....


I would with
A) 30-60 second industrial cycle, instead of 5-10 minutes
B) Ability to loot cans and wrecks from anywhere within 150km (so you didnt have to sit right next to the miners to loot cans/freight containers)
C) Some way of forcing rats to agress the rorqual instead, allowing me to not even bother putting more than a simple buffer on the hulks.

A larger ore bay also really wouldn't hurt.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2014-07-05 22:56:44 UTC
Adira Nictor wrote:
[quote=Paynus Maiassus][quote=Deornoth Drake]


I am not going to go find it, its in the old forum archives somewhere, but a pos shield on the rorqual was talked about ages ago. CCP said they couldn't do it because the pos bubble would bounce asteroids and other things all over the place. I imagine it was quite a funny thing to see.


That being said, I would agree to this pos bubble idea (assuming ccp figured out the bugs in it), if and only if once the rorqual is reinforced its suck that way until it runs out of stront, or the aggression timer runs out. Max time on reinforced could only be a few hours, Its not like your inactive and don't know that your rorqual has been attacked. This would give your friends and fleets time to show up and defend the rorqual.

While reinforced, the rorqual loses drone control, and all cap as the reactor is busy keeping the shields reinforced. Cap boosters have no effect, and lockable targets is reduced to 0.

Total HP of a rorqual that is sieged would be around 2x a dread and would get no boosts or ewar immunity that other ships enjoy.

This pos bubble could only be put online if you are further then 500km from any pos/planet/moon/station/sun

There would be no invulnerability of any kind except for normal cases, like undocking/jumping.

I could thing of some very nasty uses for a ship like this, even if only indy ships could be put inside the shields.


I don't buy the bug excuse. Maybe they couldn't do it with the same code that they used to make POS bubbles. But they could do it, for instance by setting a zone around the Rorq at which all indy ships have a damage resistance of 100% or something. That's just a quick idea. They may have to do it differently but they could do it.

As for giving a limited duration bubble that could not be recalled, that will just force people to only mine an hour before downtime or whatever. I think people are missing that the mining mentality requires a fundamentally different mindset and play style than the PvP ganger mentality. I don't think making a Rorq a ship that can survive until someone saves it will create a satisfying experience. It needs to get in, do its thing, and get out.

I have no problem with making it only siege off grid from moons, stations, etc. The Rorq is meant to be a deep space industrial base.
Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-07-05 23:18:09 UTC
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Adira Nictor wrote:
[quote=Paynus Maiassus][quote=Deornoth Drake]


I am not going to go find it, its in the old forum archives somewhere, but a pos shield on the rorqual was talked about ages ago. CCP said they couldn't do it because the pos bubble would bounce asteroids and other things all over the place. I imagine it was quite a funny thing to see.


That being said, I would agree to this pos bubble idea (assuming ccp figured out the bugs in it), if and only if once the rorqual is reinforced its suck that way until it runs out of stront, or the aggression timer runs out. Max time on reinforced could only be a few hours, Its not like your inactive and don't know that your rorqual has been attacked. This would give your friends and fleets time to show up and defend the rorqual.

While reinforced, the rorqual loses drone control, and all cap as the reactor is busy keeping the shields reinforced. Cap boosters have no effect, and lockable targets is reduced to 0.

Total HP of a rorqual that is sieged would be around 2x a dread and would get no boosts or ewar immunity that other ships enjoy.

This pos bubble could only be put online if you are further then 500km from any pos/planet/moon/station/sun

There would be no invulnerability of any kind except for normal cases, like undocking/jumping.

I could thing of some very nasty uses for a ship like this, even if only indy ships could be put inside the shields.


I don't buy the bug excuse. Maybe they couldn't do it with the same code that they used to make POS bubbles. But they could do it, for instance by setting a zone around the Rorq at which all indy ships have a damage resistance of 100% or something. That's just a quick idea. They may have to do it differently but they could do it.

As for giving a limited duration bubble that could not be recalled, that will just force people to only mine an hour before downtime or whatever. I think people are missing that the mining mentality requires a fundamentally different mindset and play style than the PvP ganger mentality. I don't think making a Rorq a ship that can survive until someone saves it will create a satisfying experience. It needs to get in, do its thing, and get out.

I have no problem with making it only siege off grid from moons, stations, etc. The Rorq is meant to be a deep space industrial base.



Read my post again. I think your confusing Pos bubble being deployed with the rorqual in siege, and the rorqual being in reinforcement because people shot it to hell.
Paynus Maiassus
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-07-06 11:37:42 UTC
Adira Nictor wrote:
Paynus Maiassus wrote:
Adira Nictor wrote:
[quote=Paynus Maiassus][quote=Deornoth Drake]


I am not going to go find it, its in the old forum archives somewhere, but a pos shield on the rorqual was talked about ages ago. CCP said they couldn't do it because the pos bubble would bounce asteroids and other things all over the place. I imagine it was quite a funny thing to see.


That being said, I would agree to this pos bubble idea (assuming ccp figured out the bugs in it), if and only if once the rorqual is reinforced its suck that way until it runs out of stront, or the aggression timer runs out. Max time on reinforced could only be a few hours, Its not like your inactive and don't know that your rorqual has been attacked. This would give your friends and fleets time to show up and defend the rorqual.

While reinforced, the rorqual loses drone control, and all cap as the reactor is busy keeping the shields reinforced. Cap boosters have no effect, and lockable targets is reduced to 0.

Total HP of a rorqual that is sieged would be around 2x a dread and would get no boosts or ewar immunity that other ships enjoy.

This pos bubble could only be put online if you are further then 500km from any pos/planet/moon/station/sun

There would be no invulnerability of any kind except for normal cases, like undocking/jumping.

I could thing of some very nasty uses for a ship like this, even if only indy ships could be put inside the shields.


I don't buy the bug excuse. Maybe they couldn't do it with the same code that they used to make POS bubbles. But they could do it, for instance by setting a zone around the Rorq at which all indy ships have a damage resistance of 100% or something. That's just a quick idea. They may have to do it differently but they could do it.

As for giving a limited duration bubble that could not be recalled, that will just force people to only mine an hour before downtime or whatever. I think people are missing that the mining mentality requires a fundamentally different mindset and play style than the PvP ganger mentality. I don't think making a Rorq a ship that can survive until someone saves it will create a satisfying experience. It needs to get in, do its thing, and get out.

I have no problem with making it only siege off grid from moons, stations, etc. The Rorq is meant to be a deep space industrial base.



Read my post again. I think your confusing Pos bubble being deployed with the rorqual in siege, and the rorqual being in reinforcement because people shot it to hell.


No, I read it. Basically you want a Rorqual that when reinforced cannot get away and must be saved by friends. This goes against the principle of the Rorqual as a deep space industrial base. Currently the Rorqual needs a POS to keep it safe. You are recommending a Rorqual that needs a friendly fleet to keep it safe. So in concept, the Rorqual would not be a vessel that can go off into deep space by itself and survive. Basically, low sec mining would still be dead because the corps that would make use of it would not have the friends available to protect it from the sov null alliances that would be hunting it. Miners, generally being an anti-social lot, would only mine under circumstances where they could do it basically independently, such as a situation where downtime could be exploited to make an escape.

Further on the bug thing, if an actual POS effect is truly unworkable, the siege could create a 5K zone around the Rorq, complete with its own visual effect, where the Rorqual and any industrial ships in the Rorqual's fleet that are within it cannot be locked, and the industrial ships in the zone cannot lock anything. A second effect of the zone would be a powerful smart bomb effect which would make it difficult to bump the Rorq and impossible to bomb the Rorq and its barges. This is an example of how a Rorqual can have an 'invulnerability mode' that doesn't utilize a POS bubble specifically. The point isn't so much the POS bubble, but that the Rorqual needs an invulnerability mode in order to really function as intended.
Marox Calendale
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2014-07-07 15:06:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Marox Calendale
Sorry, but I don´t compare to the idea that a roqual should be able to survive in deep space without any supporting fleet. As a capital ship, it should be the flagship of any miningfleet. It should have his own teeth while defending, but its fleet should be the key if defense is successful or not.

That is what I would prefer to be changed at the roqual:

Capital Industrial Ship Skill Bonuses:
- 5% Reduction in Fuel Consumption for industrial cores per level
10% bonus to effectiveness of mining foreman warfare links per level when in deployed mode
20% bonus to drone damage and hitpoints per level
10% bonus to capital shield booster amount and capacitor need reduction per level
Can deploy 1 additional Capital Mining Drone per level

Role bonuses:
900% bonus to the range of Survey Scanners
200% bonus to Drone Control Range
100% Bonus to Mining Drone Yield and Capital Mining Drone Yield

Can carry Capital Mining Drones
Can use 3 Warfare Link modules simultaneously


3000 m³ drone bay, 250MBit Dronebandwidth
3.000.000 m³ Ship Maintenance Bay (for about 15 Hulks or defense ships, so not industrials only)

Capital Mining Drone: 250m³ Volume, 25Mbit Bandwidth, 10 of them will mine as much as 1 hulk does (incl. the Bonus to their yield the roq would have), 2750m³ Ore Bay so they only have to come back when 1 Jetcan (27500m³) is full.

Industrial Core: Duration 60, Consumption 100, increases all resistances by 30% like a bastion module does. Ore compression is still possible.

Instead of having Clone Vat Bays for ships I would add Clone Vat Arrays for posses. But I am not sure how important they are for titans or any other ship which can fit them.


The idea is, that the roqual will be able to switch their drones when its getting attacked while it would have a very strong tank. The miners have to get back to switch to their combat ships and defend it until its Cap is empty or no attackers are left.
Drone bay would be big enough to carry 10 Capital Mining Drones and 10 Geckos or other Combat Drones, but too small for any fighter, while the Capital Mining Drones would be too big for any other Mining Ship. Bandwidth would be enough for 10 Capital Mining Drones or 5 Geckos or other Combat Drones.
Survey Scanner, Capital Tractor Beam and Drones would have a range near to 200km. So while mining the ship could stay outside the belt, pull the cans and compress the ore.

This all is written from my point of view as a wormhole miner. I know there are different circumstances in low or Nullsec. This suggestion could be even too hard for wormhole and maybe too weak for K-Space. But I am not a developer and it is in CCP´s responsibility to have a good balance between all kind of spaces. So the main thing I want to tell is how my vision of the role of a rebuilded roqual is.
Lilith Shea
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#35 - 2014-07-07 16:41:07 UTC
I love that there are a ton of great ideas coming out in this thread. Hopefully we can get someone's attention from CCP to give this a real look into. They acknowledge Rorq needs love, we've been wanting a cap mining ship. Rorq can fill that void without succumbing to the tiericide. The ship should be completely poppable (as every ship in eve is) but it needs to fill its roll of mining support, with the addition of allowing the pilot to mine as well, and have comparable longevity to any other cap ship. It needs to be more adept at jumping, something cool like miners only cyno to make it shiny, and less of a timer on siege mode.

Really this ship doesn't need too much to make it space worthy, and minor tweaks would do more for ship balancing than a complete overhaul. I think we just need to show that there is support for the Rorqual and we refuse to let it die.

P.S. Yea rorq needs to stay low sec, otherwise... why Orca
Lilith Shea
Multiplex Gaming
Tactical Narcotics Team
#36 - 2014-07-08 14:37:31 UTC
Post about the Rorq in another thread... these guys are talking about it in a more combat oriented perspective... we might be able to feed off of eachother

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=341169&p=5
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2014-07-08 15:50:36 UTC
allow drone control units to be used by Rorquals

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Marox Calendale
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-07-09 07:57:19 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
allow drone control units to be used by Rorquals

Where shall be the benefit? The Roq has 6 High Slots and 4 are already used for Ganglinks and Indy Core. It has 300m³ Dronebay, so not enough Space for even 1 Fighter. And 125 Mbit Bandwidth is also only helpful, if you want to use more than 5 Medium Drones. Yeah that makes the Roq strong using 7 instead of 5 Hammerheads...
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