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Jack Dant

The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre

Likes received: 541

#261 - 2011-12-06 20:01:10 UTC | Edited by: Jack Dant

Tiberious Sutherland wrote:

PI materials are costing something like 500% more to produce then they used to. Sure, some people will be able to produce PI materials at 0% tax meaning they'll make a very nice killing on the PI market. But alot of people are going to be limited to the horrendous 17% Interbus tax rate which means market prices are going to go up accordingly. Probably not by 500% but I could easily see PI materials increasing by 50% because of the new tax rate.

Taxes went up from nearly 0% to 10-17%. Calling that a "500%" increase is a fallacy. Expect a 10-20% in oxygen, uranium, mech parts and coolant, maybe 50-60% in robotics. And thats from the october prices.

Quote:

And then there's Heavy Water and Liquid Ozone. If no new supply is made available for those materials (such as CCP increasing the quantity of each refined from ice), then the demand for these is going to force prices to go up. Assume that the average CPU and PG usage of a tower is as high as 80% (and I actually expect that it's much lower). That means demand for HW and LO is going to be 25% greater then it was before fuel blocks. 25% more demand with 0% more supply means prices will go up.

POS fuel is not the only use of LO. Based on how often you see "jump bridge at xx is empty" in 0.0 intel channels, I suspect jump bridges drink as much LO as towers. At the same time, HW is pretty much a waste product of mining for LO. Its market price was pretty much at the "not worth hauling" point. So long-term, LO will go up somewhat, HW probably will be back to 25-50 in a few months.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Ingvar Angst

Nasty Pope Holding Corp

Likes received: 920

#262 - 2011-12-06 20:19:14 UTC

Jack Dant wrote:

Tiberious Sutherland wrote:

No, he's right. Taxes are up 500%, 700%, etc. on exporting PI items because they not only jacked the rates up but the base values those rates were calculated on. 5000 precious metals went from costing 2 to 3K in taxes to 617K in taxes for example.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Jack Dant

The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre

Likes received: 541

#263 - 2011-12-06 20:26:06 UTC

Ingvar Angst wrote:

The taxes have increased by some high percentage, yes. But that doesn't mean prices have to go up by the same percentage for PI producers to get the same profit per item. They just have to increase the price by the same amount (not percentage) as the taxes have increased. Since most taxes were nearly 0% before, the PI items will go up 10-17% for P1, and a bit more for each subsequent tier as the previous tier taxes are factored in.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Icarus Helia

State War Academy

Caldari State

Likes received: 43

#264 - 2011-12-06 22:03:25 UTC | Edited by: Icarus Helia

Harudath wrote:

Scrapyard Bob wrote:

Harudath wrote:

40 blocks for a large tower? Not 4? At 24,000isk/block at the moment that's 650m a month to run a large tower. Unless prices go down, surely this will mean people leaving wormholes and small-time POS usage en masse? Its more than double the cost of before

Please go back and read the previous page:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=467626#post467626

Which gives prices per 30-days of:

S: 104M ISK
M: 206M ISK
L: 409M ISK

Fuel blocks are currently overpriced on the market due to low supply and unless the underlying PI/Ice products change value drastically, will probably end up costing around (409M / 30d / 24h / 40 blocks + 5% profit margin) = 14.9k ISK/block once the market stabilizes again.

Oh, that is much better then, but still a rather large price hike and most definitely open to the possibility of becoming much, much worse. Here's hoping, anyway. I was just going by the price of fuel blocks last night.

Always best on long term expenses to figure out what the base cost to build is, and then either pay as little above that as possible, or build it yourself if you have nothing better to do with the manufacturing slots, and can match or beat the lowest market costs :). Just remember that doesn't mean it is free, it just means you skip a go at market taxes and isk flow - don't use base value when calculating what you should sell things for - use market value, otherwise you are screwing yourself over.

Why you no care?

Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance 875
non judgement Without Fear Flying Burning Ships Alliance Likes received: 875	#265 - 2011-12-07 00:35:14 UTC \| Edited by: non judgement 1 I'm guessing that the change over will be about the 14th? Has a dev said a date yet? I've made some energon cubes already and put them in my tower. The new cubes don't bother me at all. Just would like to know when the change over is. So I know how much fuel I should keep for the tower and how much I can use to build more cubes.

Storm Chasers. Pandemic Horde 1
Lady PimpStar Storm Chasers. Pandemic Horde Likes received: 1	#266 - 2011-12-07 03:29:55 UTC You are going to have lots of unhappy ladies that sneak into station control arrays to find there robotic play things have been replaced by animal pellets. Did you ever wonder why the conrol arrays needed so many damn robots every couple hours?!?! Really what kinds of things you think the robots did in the stations repair and make coffee?

non judgement

Without Fear

Flying Burning Ships Alliance

Likes received: 875

#267 - 2011-12-07 03:58:32 UTC

Lady PimpStar wrote:

You are going to have lots of unhappy ladies that sneak into station control arrays to find there robotic play things have been replaced by animal pellets. Did you ever wonder why the conrol arrays needed so many damn robots every couple hours?!?! Oops

Really what kinds of things you think the robots did in the stations repair and make coffee?

I was hopeful that the robots would help put my pants on in the morning. It's a good thing that no one can see me. I always wondered if POS have people on them, like our ships do.

World Welfare Works Association 577
Cygnet Lythanea World Welfare Works Association Likes received: 577	#268 - 2011-12-07 08:48:05 UTC One would imagine they would have to. There really wouldn't be any point to all those windows on a huge automated platform and the old fuels did mention cleaning, so...

Lady PimpStar

Storm Chasers.

Pandemic Horde

Likes received: 1

#269 - 2011-12-07 15:30:46 UTC

Cygnet Lythanea wrote:

One would imagine they would have to. There really wouldn't be any point to all those windows on a huge automated platform and the old fuels did mention cleaning, so...

"the floor is now clean" .. Eve should sell rights to EA to make a Sims habitat ring eve edition that gives you bonuses for happy people.

Anyways! Also with this expansion we need to allow corps to make courier contracts to POS Arrays.. DO IT! Since you trying to boost hauling anyway for all us wormhole people.

Somatic Neuron

Masterwork Productions Inc

Likes received: 88

#270 - 2011-12-08 13:23:55 UTC | Edited by: Somatic Neuron

Wait, so instead of 4/2/1, the starbases are 40/20/10 per HOUR? Ummmm.....at the current materials to construct a fuel block, that is going to be x10 the amount of fuel per hour that they are currently consuming. What the F#CK? This looks like an EMERGENCY change is needed BEFORE the damn thing goes live....

NVM....stupidy took over before the coffee hit...

Neo Agricola

Gallente Federation

Likes received: 227

#271 - 2011-12-08 13:26:59 UTC

Somatic Neuron wrote:

Nope
they use 40/20/10 (- faction bonus - sov bonus)
Producing
40 per run.

everything looks good (exept the size of those blocks... they could be smaler for better logistic, but you cant have everything)

DISSONANCE is recruiting Members: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=706442#post706442 Black-Mark Alliance Recruitment: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6710

Ingvar Angst

Nasty Pope Holding Corp

Likes received: 920

#272 - 2011-12-08 13:29:27 UTC | Edited by: Ingvar Angst

Somatic Neuron wrote:

They consume 10x the blocks, however each production run produces 10x as many blocks for the same fuel and they're each 1/10th the volume.

Think of it as the difference between spending a dollar or 100 pennies.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Cygnet Lythanea

World Welfare Works Association

Likes received: 577

#273 - 2011-12-08 13:31:35 UTC

Somatic Neuron wrote:

Varies by materials. Less Uranium and Robotics, more heavy water and ozone.

Thunder Fenix

Imperial Academy

Amarr Empire

Likes received: 14

#274 - 2011-12-09 09:28:53 UTC

I see just 2 ways to fix the price-LO/HW usage:

1) EASIER but lot less intriguing:

increase LO/HW yeld of ice block to balance the more consumption of them (reduce usage of LO/HW is more complex since ccp should change 'em for every single anchorable structure)

2) HARDER but a lot more interesting:

regroup all fixed fuels (isotopes, uranium, coolant, etc) into a single fuel block
make other 2 blocks for LO and HW

Yes more BPOs and bit more complexity but will contribute a lot in keeping prices down and let ppl used to run their POS above 100% to avoid both increased cost and hauling.
However concerns about m3 to haul are just quite poor discussions at this time: this can be modified later on by changing just a pair of numbers, i'm a lot more worried about price factor for now.

PI tax boost will alredy make price rise of a bit (spent 15M to get out P2 on 6 planets more than 3x of previous patch, and the player owned custom office thing doesn't help little corps or lone players, as usual) and definitely force the POS fuel usage to increase without make smth to balance it is even worse.

Honestly i think that instead of diversify ways and chances of a player to manage its own things CCP is going to reduce 'em... just like happened with CAPITAIN'S QUARTER and this is a sad thing.

Anyway just an opinion like many others

Desert Ice78

Gryphons of the Western Wind

Likes received: 556

#275 - 2011-12-09 16:12:08 UTC | Edited by: Desert Ice78

I'm re-doing my pos fuel spreadsheet, and I really, REALLY hope I've made a mistake, because the new cost for running a POS is CRAZY.

Is anyone else getting +600mil ISK per month for a large tower? (Thats for the Ice products only, and at current Jita sell price.)

EDIT: Found an error. Cost is now only 447mil ISK. I'll keep looking.

I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg

CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.


Desert Ice78 Gryphons of the Western Wind Likes received: 556	#276 - 2011-12-09 16:26:29 UTC \| Edited by: Desert Ice78 double post I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.


Jack Dant The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre Likes received: 541	#277 - 2011-12-09 16:34:25 UTC You are probably looking at gallente fuel. Check the others What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644


Desert Ice78 Gryphons of the Western Wind Likes received: 556	#278 - 2011-12-09 17:51:44 UTC Jack Dant wrote: You are probably looking at gallente fuel. Check the others Afraid not, Minmatar. Training up production efficiency currently to see how that helps. I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused.

Scrapyard Bob

EVE University

Ivy League

Likes received: 1,239

#279 - 2011-12-09 23:20:31 UTC

Coolant 12.5k - 8/hr
En Uranium 12.95k - 4/hr
Mech Parts 10.8k - 4/hr
Oxygen - 367 - 20/hr
Robotics - 77.4k - 1/hr
HW - 170 - 150/hr
Isotopes - 443-480 - 400/hr
LiqOz - 468 - 150/hr

Amarr: 101 / 201 / 400 - 13883 ISK/u
Caldari: 104 / 206 / 410 - 14243 ISK/u
Gallente: 174 / 347 / 692 - 24016 ISK/u
Minmatar: 104 / 206 / 410 - 14252 ISK/u

ISK/30d - plus approx fuel block cost to make it yourself using the above prices (assumes Production Efficiency V and a ME 40 BPO).

RubyPorto

RubysRhymes

Likes received: 5,663

#280 - 2011-12-10 22:36:10 UTC

Scrapyard Bob wrote:

Bob, you just have that saved in a text file and just sleepily post it wherever you go, don't you? Cool

I'd just sign in and post the following "Sig"

Would help avoid so many bad mathium tears.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon

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