Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So with the new changes coming out, POS mechanics, compression arrays, outpost refining... ccp admitted Rorqual is going to need some love to be awesome again. I know it will likely never happen but would a Capital Mining Ship be too much to ask for :-p


I don't mean a mining beast to purge the universe of evil roid fields in the lawless lands of null/WH. But just a sexy alternative to the small barges we see now. I would hate flying a Rorqual that has 6 strips and a fleet of 20 mining drones... profitable, but not fun. But at the same time it would be awesome to fit maybe 2 strips some drone control mods and a fleet of 10. Wouldn't it be cool to go out to a field or anom and siege mode a rorq... now you have a miner that can pull from I dunno 100k out and 10 drones to protect against rats. Something like that.... not OP, just giving miners the ability to fly the big sexy ships and be make money. Something that doesn't just look pretty while making everyone else more isk.

Or maybe even forget the strips, keep the boost slots to help out fleet and just give it a carrier style drone control... you have your miners in the anoms eating the big rocks, while a rorqual is hanging out in the belts chewing and cleaning up all the little crap roids that no one ever touches.

This is all just me throwing out ideas, of course a serious look into the viability and balancing would have to be done by those much more privy than me but at least explore the idea. I'm sure I'm not the only one that would love to pilot a capital mining ship... there should really not be a reason why boosters have to remain parked at a POS to be useful. I really don't want to PLEX or sub just to have another 10% yield (just throwing a number out there... no flames necessary :)

Let it make more than just compressed ore. Let me run any manufacturing job that will fit into the holds on it, with a slight reduction in manufacturing time. It is a capital industrial ship, after all, so let me be industrious with it.

It will have to have a lot of incentives to achieve this. Capital ships and belts don't generally mix. I look forward to seeing their approach to the issue.

This is something that they do really need to sort. Currently, as has already been stated in this and other threads, nobody in their right mind would seige a Rorqual outside of a POS shield.

So, in order to make the Rorqual useful and worth it's massive price tag, how about this for a start:

1) Make the mining boost bonus effective whether it's seiged or not

2) Keep the ore compression when seiged

3) Add manufacturing as an option when the Rorqual is seiged with either a build time reduction or a materials reduction (not sure which is best from a balance point of view)

4) Add a 100% mining amount for mining drones role bonus

5) Add a 100% mining drone control range role bonus

This would allow it to seige inside a POS shield for manufacturing and ore compression but also head to a mining site/asteroid belt for fleet support. It could actually mine itself using drones, support the fleet with remote reps, filled jetcan collection and rat extermination using drones. It would have the range to warp somewhere a long way from the standard warp in point so it could stay aligned ready to warp out giving it some level of protection meaning people would actually use it at a belt rather than just keeping their very expensive ship within a POS shield.

There may well be reasons why some of those bonuses aren't needed or are over-powered as this was just off the top of my head without checking the numbers but I think it could make it a viagble and usable ship.

we had a big rorqual discussion last year.

first, the idea of sieging in a belt just to mine is a flat nope, no way.
carriers siege to triage. they dont siege to rat.

bonuses and siege should be separated. i think a stripper in the high slot with a 200% bonus would be ideal.
give it 5x (something) range to match the scanner and targeting range. it has infinitely more power than a hulk, it should be able to drive the stripper like crazy. or just make a capital strip miner with those kinds of abilities.
it should mine the same as an unbonused hulk.

allowing it to run other jobs would be great. it IS an industrial as mentioned.

to me, we should get rid of the siege mode. let it do its thing. refund all those skill point.
it could come to the field, give capital reps to the miners under attack from rats or small pirates, if it needs too, jump to safety as would a carrier or dread. it could also mine, so the miner who gives up his mining ship to boost wouldnt lose anything.

we also discussed a large clone bay.

here is a huge problem with it. if we clone jump to the rorqual, we have to stay in that clone 24 or so hours. so, im ratting and they call for an alliance op. i jump over and lose my implant. when we are finished, i am in a jc for the rest of the day.

here is an idea. just like the blops and a titan, make it be able to bridge miners to a cyno. industrial ships only.
i can bring out the rorqual, open a cyno and a mining fleet jump to system i wanna mine without having to travel 10 jumps through low sec or null.

give it a much large hangar bay. if its only allowed to carry mining ships, then give it like 2.5M or more so a fleet of hulks can fit in it. its a nice attempt at a cap ship. but sitting it in a pos to run links is inefficient when u can throw a fleet invite up for any alliance member and run an orca in the pos all day long for free. you can also bring an orca to the belt and give links while having an mtu out without the need for heavy water or being burdened by a 5 minute death timer.

INCREASE THE JUMP RANGE. give it a small bonus like jf get nuff said.

the drone bonus is great, i love the 2x damage. but give it a bonus like carriers to like 200% drone control range. we warp to a belt, drop sentries, warp to pos, then back to belt 100k away to if attacked, the sentries will be at optimal. jump and abandon if need be.
or give it a 20% to optimal range bonus per level like the damage bonus. that way we can protect miners across the belt.
also, give it a higher bandwidth so it can launch 5 attack drones, or +1 per level of mining drones. so 5 sentries for defense or 10 mining drones. how about some capital mining drones (think fighters and bombers for other moms).

if we cant get rid of siege, drop the siege cycle on the rorqual to that of the marauder now. i would bring a rorqual to the belt if the siege cycle was only 1 minute. that would allow me time to watch intel channel, unsiege and jump if baddies come in.
it cant compete with carriers or dreads, so why siege as long as them? it doesnt do the same function.

let it siege to compress. let is siege to boost. keep it close to the way it is and folks would use it a little more if it had a 1 minute timer. add some of these ideas below, and i bet u youll see tons of them in belts.

here are just some off the top of my head:

increased jump range (jesus christ, i cant even jump away from one of my farts)
larger clone bay
larger industrial ship hangar (2.5M or something)
20% increased range/damage on drones
200% drone control range (no fighters of course)
can fit 1 capital strip miner
(plus normal bonuses)
drop siege cycle timer to 1 minute
jump bridge capable for industrial ships only
+1 mining drone per level
capital mining drones perhaps?

its going to take a ship like this to get my in a belt. other wise, all you're going to get are ganker tears about me staying in the pos.

ORE faction implant boosts shield and mining would be nice too.

capital strip miner mines the same as 3 t1 strip miners not to be confused with the modulated. modulated are for barges and exhumers.
i would be happy with just the t1 version and maybe a named one some day you get from ORE/CONCORD or something.

this is my idea of a rorqual.
maybe kick the idea around of refining, but i dont see it as a mobile refinery.
another thing, the orca could use the capital strip miner and not have to change another thing on it to make me happy. i would have it in the belt beside my other miners cutting AND storing rock...

some Rorqual ideas ...

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Mobile (Ninja?) mining
1) drop the restriction of the ship maintenance array (it sucks to be able to only carry industrial ships as you will see later)
2) Introduce an Industrial Jump Portal Generator I (which allows to to bridge industrial ships)

This way you could place some defence ships in the ship maintenance array, get a cyno ship in place and ninja mine somewhere. In case of troubles the miners could board the defence ships to defend the rorqual. Once the mining operation is over they could bridge back out.

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Industrial flavour
1) Drop the sieging part
2) Industrial reconfiguration skill grants
Level 1: Ore compression (instant), production (T1 non-captial modules)
Level 2: production (T1 frigates & destroyer), production (T2 non-capital modules)
Level 3: production (T2 frigates & destroyer), production (T1 cruisers & battlecruisers)
Level 4: production (T2 cruisers & battlecruisers), production (T1 battleships)
Level 5: production (T2 battleships)

Maybe SOE or SoCT would be interested to build a science variant of the rorqual

The ship has to be anchored and receives the same handling as mobile depots with an additional warp core boost, i.e. the minute after unanchoring, nobody can stop you from warping (besides bumping) ... maybe add 10 seconds or so jump drive boost ... or something like that, so that you have a chance to get the ship save

These are good ideas that will likely get more people into Rorquals. I was well on my way to buying one before the changes were announced, but now I have this useless Industrial Configuration skillbook that I'm not sure I'll ever use unless the rorqual gets some serious love from CCP.

honestly, i dont know why they cannot jump through gates like JF do. the most dps you can get out of them is 1k with good drone skills. hell, my moderately built rattlesnake was pushing 1800. the vindi can push 2200... the rorqual cannot cant lay siege to stations like the dreads do. if it does attack, concord will rip it a new ass..it isnt a dread. give it the ability to travel through gates like JF. lets see these big ships in high sec. a pair of logi can perma rep WAY more than a rorqual which has limited cap.
no cynos of course...but this is NOT a warship. it should not be limited too low sec and below.

besides, the thing ccp feared the most about letting capitals in high sec has already happened every day/year for years now. burn jita. high sec gankers, needless and senseless killing of towers or people.
bring the rorqual in. watch all the war decks happen. in its current state, its nothing more than a semi functioning jump freighter.

allow the rorqual in high sec, just like JF are and orca are.

give it the same penalties as a jf.
even if the price goes up another 500M or so. i wouldnt care...

or limit it to .5 and below.
there are a lot of good belts we could mine in .5 systems. then compress (which wll be done anywhere now) and jump back to your cap assembly area...

carriers can assign fighters that follow people into warp. they can triage and super rep everything in sight.
the rorqual goes into siege and people cut rock a little better.

you cannot compare the 3. seriously, its a glorified jf at this point, and restricting it to .5 and lower wouldnt change a thing. just like the black ops, no cyno in high sec.
this feature would make the rorqual unique. would make it useful as hell. instead of sinking a pos in high sec to compress and use the rorqual to move it, we could fly the rorqual into .5, pick up the ore and compress on sight.

we all know with high sec gankers, nothing is safe.

Do NOT allow the Rorqual in high sec. The concept of the ship is a deep space industrial base. Making it a high sec ship runs completely contrary to that. Plus tramples on the Orca.

The primary problem with the Rorqual is that it is supposed to be a deep space base, but it needs a POS to operate. I suggest that we keep the siege mode. However, when in siege, the Rorqual gets POS bubble. it becomes a POS. It should have a large number of hit points and then go into reinforced, however, the reinforcement should be like a mobile depot's reinforced mode. Where the mobile depot can just be scooped up and the reinforcement is over, the Rorqual can just shut off its siege and end the reinforcement. So basically, the Rorqual gets an invulnerability bubble. Now only industrial ships can enter the bubble. And from within the bubble, only the Rorqual can lock targets and send drones out, tractor cans, etc. Any other ships hiding in the bubble can't lock targets or tractor or anything. Just like being in a POS. Also, give the deactivation of the siege/POS a 30 second 'cool down' where the ship can still align and warp out while being invulnerable.

Yes, allow the Rorqual to bridge indy ships to cynos.

Also, update the clone vat bay (for both Rorqual and Titans) so that you are not required to create a new clone to deposit your clone in the Rorqual. Just have an option to deposit clone, which when selected, will give you the option to jump into one of your other clones and simultaneously store your clone in the Rorqual while jumping to another of your clones. So the Rorqual can be used to create clones, but also can be a storage place for pilots that have already maxed out their clones allowed by their level of infomorph psychology.

These changes will make the Rorqual a ship that can be used in belts as a safe haven for barges as well as make it a deep deployment center for industrial ops.

The idea for giving the Rorqual manufacturing capability is creative and fits the concept, but would be somewhat superfluous and not really necessary to make it a good ship. Also would probably take a lot of code. I vote no on that one.

If the changes I recommend are made, then there will be such a thing a low sec mining. It would vastly tip the risk/reward toward the miner and away from the miner hunter. However, this is really what is needed to allow smaller corps to collect ore in low sec and the more active areas of null.