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kill rights to be awarded also against outlaws - currently exploitable? -SOLVED-
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el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2011-12-06 19:02:03 UTC  |  Edited by: el alasar
EDIT: only hot air - everything is as it is supposed to be, Tippia's concise wording explains it:
Tippia wrote:
It means that attacking a legal target [the outlaw] does not give them any kill rights on you — kill rights are awarded for unlawful (and unresisted) kills. Since the target is legal, the kill is legal, so no kill rights are given. If they [the outlaws] attack you unprovoked (and you're not an outlaw like they are), you are still an unlawful target, so you get killrights on them.

If you attack a legal target, you become a legal target for them, so if the attack fails you do not get any killrights for that reason: it was a legal kill (also, since you attacked them, their counter-kill would also be considered a “resisted” kill on your end, and wouldn't award any kill rights regardless).

original post:
as the evelopedia page currently states, kill rights will only be granted if you get ship-killed in empire space by non-outlaws (sec status > -5). if this was true, it could be easily exploited. please confirm.

if an outlaw (sec status <= -5) performs a ship-kill at e.g. -5.01 he will not be punished by kill rights (current reasoning: he can be shot any time. true so far.). the reason kill rights are granted to the victim is that he gets a guaranteed time of 30 days for possible revenge. yet the outlaw can use a tactic to raise its sec status shortly after the aggression above -5, e.g. -4.99. thus the victim is deprived of his option to revenge without incurring a security status hit himself in empire space.

please award kill rights to the victim regardless of the security status of the offender.

thanks for your time.

please also check extend personal kill rights to allow podding. (like GCC does now).

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
Mashie Saldana
V0LTA
WE FORM V0LTA
#2 - 2011-12-06 20:54:04 UTC
You got that completely wrong, even as an outlaw I get kill rights against me if I kill someone in lowsec. Not that it will help the victims one bloody bit though as I'm already open season to shoot.

How to win EVE
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-12-06 21:01:25 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
You got that completely wrong, even as an outlaw I get kill rights against me if I kill someone in lowsec. Not that it will help the victims one bloody bit though as I'm already open season to shoot.


this ^^
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-12-06 21:06:20 UTC
Mashie Saldana wrote:
You got that completely wrong, even as an outlaw I get kill rights against me if I kill someone in lowsec. Not that it will help the victims one bloody bit though as I'm already open season to shoot.

well, if this is indeed the case, the evelopedia page is not right. it is clearly stated there:
Quote:
No kill rights are given against legal targets. Outlaws with a security status of -5.0 or lower, or a pilot who has performed an act of aggression are legal targets.

if you can confirm that this is wrong, please change the page.

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
Velicitia
XS Tech
#5 - 2011-12-06 21:14:28 UTC
The way I'm reading it ...

if you're stupid enough to engage an outlaw (-5.0) or someone who's flashy (e.g. they stole something from you), and lose ... you get no kill rights...

then again, meh.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#6 - 2011-12-06 21:26:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
el alasar wrote:
Mashie Saldana wrote:
You got that completely wrong, even as an outlaw I get kill rights against me if I kill someone in lowsec. Not that it will help the victims one bloody bit though as I'm already open season to shoot.

well, if this is indeed the case, the evelopedia page is not right. it is clearly stated there:
Quote:
No kill rights are given against legal targets. Outlaws with a security status of -5.0 or lower, or a pilot who has performed an act of aggression are legal targets.

if you can confirm that this is wrong, please change the page.

It means that attacking a legal target does not give them any kill rights on you — kill rights are awarded for unlawful (and unresisted) kills. Since the target is legal, the kill is legal, so no kill rights are given. If they attack you unprovoked (and you're not an outlaw like they are), you are still an unlawful target, so you get killrights on them.
Velicitia wrote:
if you're stupid enough to engage an outlaw (-5.0) or someone who's flashy (e.g. they stole something from you), and lose ... you get no kill rights...
If you attack a legal target, you become a legal target for them, so if the attack fails you do not get any killrights for that reason: it was a legal kill (also, since you attacked them, their counter-kill would also be considered a “resisted” kill on your end, and wouldn't award any kill rights regardless).
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-12-06 21:36:53 UTC
Tippia wrote:
(and you're not an outlaw like they are).


I am just misunderstood.
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-12-06 21:45:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
It means that attacking a legal target [the outlaw] does not give them any kill rights on you — kill rights are awarded for unlawful (and unresisted) kills. Since the target is legal, the kill is legal, so no kill rights are given. If they [the outlaws] attack you unprovoked (and you're not an outlaw like they are), you are still an unlawful target, so you get killrights on them.

If you attack a legal target, you become a legal target for them, so if the attack fails you do not get any killrights for that reason: it was a legal kill (also, since you attacked them, their counter-kill would also be considered a “resisted” kill on your end, and wouldn't award any kill rights regardless).

thanks for clearing that up. that was very concise and great to understand! thx very much.

being not a native speaker, even after reading the evelopedia page a few times, i got it wrong. now also evelopedia makes sense! Roll maybe we should change the wording to make it easier to understand...

please close the thread!

check the moderated 10000 papercuts evelopedia page! http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Little_things_and_ideas_-_low_hanging_fruit_-_10000_papercuts comment, bump(!) and like what you like
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#9 - 2011-12-06 22:18:42 UTC
Baaldor wrote:
Tippia wrote:
(and you're not an outlaw like they are).


I am just misunderstood.


I thought I understood you quite clearly when you said 50M or your ship...
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-12-06 22:32:15 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Baaldor wrote:
Tippia wrote:
(and you're not an outlaw like they are).


I am just misunderstood.


I thought I understood you quite clearly when you said 50M or your ship...


How does "panties" even sound remotely close to "ship"?
Apollo Gabriel
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
Ushra'Khan
#11 - 2011-12-06 22:55:06 UTC
Low sec = empire
Always ... Never ... Forget to check your references.   Peace out Zulu! Hope you land well!
Serene Repose
#12 - 2011-12-06 23:44:46 UTC
Tippia has such a knack for stating the obvious. It's wonderful how he/she takes the time to separate all the quotes so he/she can poke her irrelevancies in-between...one of the most charming aspects of this forum...really.

We must accommodate the idiocracy.