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Industry Reform (Exodus from High sec?)

First post
Author
Bland Inquisitor
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2014-06-23 01:02:35 UTC
Long story short, not only will null sec be more profitable, the demand for industrialists in null will sky rocket. This is something that has been lacking in Null for a long time and I for one am glad to see the return of null-sec industry, even if I do not dabble in it myself all that much.

High-sec was never meant to be a permanent home for pilots. The NPC overlords are supposed to drive you out with the markets squeezed in this resource tight, dog eat dog world CCP created. Being pushed to the fringe's to forge your own destiny is where the game should be, so again I'm happy with the change.

P.S any indy duders that are looking to move out to null call me, can sort you out :)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#42 - 2014-06-23 04:28:03 UTC
The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.

Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#43 - 2014-06-23 09:27:15 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.

Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen.



I think Highsec should have its place but there should be no doubt that low and nullsec should be the places of true profit and innovation.
Cyniac
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2014-06-23 16:17:37 UTC
Coffee Rocks wrote:
Srsly, I tasked a corpie with just keeping 2 particular hauler hulls on market in ONE of our out-of-the-way Sov stations, and he can't keep up with demand!! And, don't even get me started about the PREMIUM markups that a savvy Indy guy can charge. 600% above Jita? No prob!!


Just to point out - this has nothing to do with industrial activity. The easiest way to do this (even in null) is often to just haul the goods you need in from highsec at this point. For a 600% markup above Jita I would figure that would be quite profitable.

In fact a 600% markup above Jita argues against industrial activity in null because traders can get a good slice of the action. Why take the risk and hassle to make stuff out there when you can just ship it in (with a bit of logistics planning, which you are going to need anyhow for any kind of serious industrial work.)

Selling stuff on the market != industrial activity.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#45 - 2014-06-23 18:55:48 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:

I think Highsec should have its place but there should be no doubt that low and nullsec should be the places of true profit and innovation.

In a way, but that profit shouldn't be 'I can make stuff cheaper than highsec' since if that margin is enough (And with JF's that's a small amount being enough) then Null can sink high sec industry any time it feels like it, and that's a bad situation.
It should be in the 'I make stuff faster' range. Which means both area's of space have equal costs when they use local materials. Since Null is actually able to use entirely local materials while High will always need to import, that in itself 'should' make a cost difference already, but the faster part is where the big profit difference should be.
Max Essen
Bison Industrial Inc
#46 - 2014-06-23 18:57:12 UTC
Funny thing is, I don't recall seeing many (if any) null corps or alliances trying to recruit any industrialists at all of late.
I believe the truth is that the vast majority of manufacture in null can be accomplished very easily by the folk they already have in their corp/alliance.

The casual 2-4 time a week industrial HiSec player (me) may have a little trouble with the upcoming release.
So, in preparation, I've pulled down my POS and have been watching and researching so when these changes hit in July ... I'll be ready to make a few ISK here and there ... perhaps even try to cause a little mischief
Crydan Annages
Independant Capsuleer Association
#47 - 2014-07-03 11:27:54 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.

Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen.


I still don't get everyone's assumption that hi-sec has no profit. Between two alt's I make enough isk operating in hi-sec to pay for my account and then some, without a whole lot of effort on my part.

How is this not profitable?

I really need someone to explain this to me, because I just don't see it. Am I missing something?

Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#48 - 2014-07-03 18:00:14 UTC
Crydan Annages wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.

Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen.


I still don't get everyone's assumption that hi-sec has no profit. Between two alt's I make enough isk operating in hi-sec to pay for my account and then some, without a whole lot of effort on my part.

How is this not profitable?

I really need someone to explain this to me, because I just don't see it. Am I missing something?




Well there's profit where you can pay for a few accounts...

...and then there's profit where you're drowning in isk.

Find a happy balance for you though. If you are good where you are, stay there. If you want more, there's places to go for that too.
Crydan Annages
Independant Capsuleer Association
#49 - 2014-07-03 18:33:04 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Crydan Annages wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
The problem with your message Bland is the assumption that High Sec is a kiddie pool. It's not. It's a different state of game play for those who don't have the time to take part in all the Null Sec requirements of membership & hazing ritual initiations.

Industry being viable and worthwhile in Null is great though, I agree. But not if it comes at the cost of Industry being viable in High. Something that the changes have serious potential to make happen.


I still don't get everyone's assumption that hi-sec has no profit. Between two alt's I make enough isk operating in hi-sec to pay for my account and then some, without a whole lot of effort on my part.

How is this not profitable?

I really need someone to explain this to me, because I just don't see it. Am I missing something?




Well there's profit where you can pay for a few accounts...

...and then there's profit where you're drowning in isk.

Find a happy balance for you though. If you are good where you are, stay there. If you want more, there's places to go for that too.



LOL Well I agree, more is always better. But why does everyone complain that it's so nerfed or not profitable when in fact it is. It just depends on your definition of profit and what makes you happy.

I myself can't complain and have no shortage of ISK operating out of hi-sec.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#50 - 2014-07-04 16:25:09 UTC
Crydan Annages wrote:

LOL Well I agree, more is always better. But why does everyone complain that it's so nerfed or not profitable when in fact it is. It just depends on your definition of profit and what makes you happy.

I myself can't complain and have no shortage of ISK operating out of hi-sec.

I'm talking about the potential meta shift of Crius, not the current situation.
In the current situation, build costs are basically equal regardless of system.
And Null has some bad issues like refining.

In the new Crius Meta, Null can build significantly cheaper than High can. Allowing potential for a meta where high sec can not make a profit on any manufacturing because Null is capable of pricing them out of the market on all items.
Null is also capable of being utterly independent of all other area's of space, which is something CCP said shouldn't be true of any space.

Neither of these potentials are good, though the meta may or may not play out that way.
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