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Which dread to pick? (post Phoenix buff)
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Lunkwill Khashour
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2014-06-28 09:10:12 UTC
Chris Winter wrote:

Your math is awful.

A single target painter isn't anywhere near enough to apply full damage to a battleship. Even if it's webbed to a standstill, you'll still be doing much less than full damage to the target.

Look up the missile damage formula (or heck, just use EFT) and then re-do your numbers.


3 Phoenix = 3 painters. A Baltech megathron will have 900m sig radius without MWD when triple painted. The same thing happens to cruisers or battlecruisers if they've activated their MWD.

A citadel cruise missile with 2 rigors has an explosion radius of 1083m. Each phoenix volley does 83k. The megathron wont take full damage but still enough to be 3-volleyed.
Nolak Ataru
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-06-28 13:31:21 UTC
Lunkwill Khashour wrote:
Chris Winter wrote:

Your math is awful.

A single target painter isn't anywhere near enough to apply full damage to a battleship. Even if it's webbed to a standstill, you'll still be doing much less than full damage to the target.

Look up the missile damage formula (or heck, just use EFT) and then re-do your numbers.


3 Phoenix = 3 painters. A Baltech megathron will have 900m sig radius without MWD when triple painted. The same thing happens to cruisers or battlecruisers if they've activated their MWD.

A citadel cruise missile with 2 rigors has an explosion radius of 1083m. Each phoenix volley does 83k. The megathron wont take full damage but still enough to be 3-volleyed.


But thats the issue. Other dreads can apply full damage to targets if they're webbed and painted enough (see wormhole space. Blap Moros and Nags galore) but the phoenix cant.
Paikis
Vapour Holdings
#23 - 2014-06-28 14:33:57 UTC
Nolak Ataru wrote:
But thats the issue. Other dreads can apply full damage to targets if they're webbed and painted enough (see wormhole space. Blap Moros and Nags galore) but the phoenix cant.


No. They can't. Gun dreads have tracking issues on anything sub-battleship without 90% webs. Even with the best webs and the best painters available, a gun dread cannot do full damage to sub-caps because :Signature Radius:

Also, there's a tonne of group-think that goes on with regards to the Dreadnaughts. There are several different uses for the different dreads, and no one dread is the best for all of them. There hasn't been a tonne of theory crafting for Dreadnaughts done, but it seems like a lot of people simply look at EFT DPS numbers and decide that the Naglfar/Moros is the best.

All of the dreads have their uses. With the current shield meta for dreads, you might want to have a think about lasers. What are the resist holes in shields again? Also, something about falloff?

Food for thought.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#24 - 2014-06-28 14:42:32 UTC
O'nira wrote:
Lugia3 wrote:
I am Placeholder wrote:
I am approaching the point where I need to decide which racial dread skillbook to inject. At the moment I am leaning towards the Nag. From the reading I have done, it has the second best damage and tracking, great appllication at various ranges can choose its ammo type and has a strong cap due to capless guns.

I won't be buying a dread yet because I have no use for one at the moment. When I do get one, however, I'd like to have a versatile one that's good in general structure bash/capital shooting and also wormhole pve. I came to the conclusion that the nag was the best choice.

Is this still the case after the Phoenix buff? How does it compare to the other dreads now? What would be the advantages of going for a Moros instead, apart from increased damage?


Phoenix is shield.

Nobody uses shield caps.


i'm sorry buddy but if you dont use shields on dreads you are a moron


For lowsec, where you don't fit a repairer to start with, you usually go with armortanks simply for 2 heavy CBs and SeBos.
Moros also got a good bit more armorbuffer compared to shieldbuffer.

Chimeras are popular among a few russian groups, but archons surely are still a thing as well.

Only in a wormhole rather no one uses armorcaps. Capital meta-shield-booster are just absurdly good, from shieldtanked archons to shieldtanked nids over to the dreadscene being completely dominated by shieldtanked moros and recently nags, the fact that one shieldtanking module does roughly the same as two armortanking mods just shifts things.
Lugia3
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2014-07-02 10:47:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugia3
O'nira wrote:
Lugia3 wrote:
I am Placeholder wrote:
I am approaching the point where I need to decide which racial dread skillbook to inject. At the moment I am leaning towards the Nag. From the reading I have done, it has the second best damage and tracking, great appllication at various ranges can choose its ammo type and has a strong cap due to capless guns.

I won't be buying a dread yet because I have no use for one at the moment. When I do get one, however, I'd like to have a versatile one that's good in general structure bash/capital shooting and also wormhole pve. I came to the conclusion that the nag was the best choice.

Is this still the case after the Phoenix buff? How does it compare to the other dreads now? What would be the advantages of going for a Moros instead, apart from increased damage?


Phoenix is shield.

Nobody uses shield caps.


i'm sorry buddy but if you dont use shields on dreads you are a moron


Lol

What if I fly a Revelation? Or a Moros? Or even a Nag that wants to, you know, hit a moving planet.

Armor master race.

[EDIT: Also, the guy above me is right, about wormholes. Lowsec master space.]

"CCP Dolan is full of shit." - CCP Bettik
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#26 - 2014-07-03 07:23:58 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
O'nira wrote:
Lugia3 wrote:
I am Placeholder wrote:
I am approaching the point where I need to decide which racial dread skillbook to inject. At the moment I am leaning towards the Nag. From the reading I have done, it has the second best damage and tracking, great appllication at various ranges can choose its ammo type and has a strong cap due to capless guns.

I won't be buying a dread yet because I have no use for one at the moment. When I do get one, however, I'd like to have a versatile one that's good in general structure bash/capital shooting and also wormhole pve. I came to the conclusion that the nag was the best choice.

Is this still the case after the Phoenix buff? How does it compare to the other dreads now? What would be the advantages of going for a Moros instead, apart from increased damage?


Phoenix is shield.

Nobody uses shield caps.


i'm sorry buddy but if you dont use shields on dreads you are a moron


For lowsec, where you don't fit a repairer to start with, you usually go with armortanks simply for 2 heavy CBs and SeBos.
Moros also got a good bit more armorbuffer compared to shieldbuffer.

Chimeras are popular among a few russian groups, but archons surely are still a thing as well.

Only in a wormhole rather no one uses armorcaps. Capital meta-shield-booster are just absurdly good, from shieldtanked archons to shieldtanked nids over to the dreadscene being completely dominated by shieldtanked moros and recently nags, the fact that one shieldtanking module does roughly the same as two armortanking mods just shifts things.


Converse to the obvious shield Nags are Actually better than armour Nags in armour gangs, because they can refit there entire low slot layout for max resists while fitting a full active shield tank for coasting, a fairly sizable advantage in small scale capital engagements.
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