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[Warfare Links] 250km AOE Boosts

Author
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#21 - 2014-07-02 16:11:19 UTC
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:
Aiyshimin wrote:
Just make links targeted modules. Long range, optimal+falloff. Increase CS high slots and tune Command Processors to allow more links, allow links to be overheated.
Little added server load, easy to program, promotes an active and challenging player role for link ships. Death to afk booster alts.


Aeh we got those links already, and they have nothing to do with fleet warefare Shocked Ssuper silly, at least I said something, post.

And I do not understand this thread in any way, since the whole on grid / off grid debate isn't even over yet, If the decision is to be on grid only, then you can start talking about ranges and whatever. The whole community is so devided and the developers undecided, that talking about bubble sizes or direct 1on1 links does not make any sense at all.

Join the on/off grid discussion if you want to have a go, this is pointless, especially some of the mentioned implementations some are really ridiculous for a thing that either is or isn't.

Not to mention, that most anti off-grid advocates are solo or small gang players who lack the understanding, that on grid favors the big corps, alliances and blobs. Just because they think a 1on1 with a boosted opponent isn't fair, that this would go away if he would be forced to bring his CS on grid... think again. Off grid favors the little guy.


No, we don't really have those links already, and yes, targeted links would turn them from "fleet boosters" to fleet mate boosters.

My proposal is not 1on1, but 1onMany (9 link slots would be ideal for a link ship). So you'd have eg. one CS boosting logis. one for ewar, one for tacklers and so on. Or one ship boosting various roles in a small gang. IMHO this would be an interesting, new fleet role suitable for experienced players- a well flown booster could win the fight by his player skills. As opposed to current situation where an OGB wins the fight, alt-tabbed with no effort.

All the mechanics in combat favour the side with more numbers, there isn't much CCP can do about that, but at least making links targeted wouldn't favour blobs disproportionally.

I'm also posting this as an booster character who served my main, solo and in small gangs and fleets for several years, off and on grid, invalidating your argument about "lack of understanding" or whatever it was that you were trying to say.

Alt-based mechanics are lame and need to go from this game. Just bringing the alt on grid changes little.
Kirluin
#22 - 2014-07-02 17:36:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirluin
A refreshing boost effect applied to every player on grid is absolutely the obvious solution to bringing links on grid. Once every minute, apply a 1 minute boost effect to all fleetmates on grid. call it "Synchronizing fleet battle computers" for the lore purists out there... data that optimizes operation based on current battle conditions. Done. Probably costs less cpu time than a flight of drones since the game has already calculated distance information for everyone (helloo overview).

That it hasnt been done yet probably means that somewhere in CCP, there's a vaguely defined "perfect solution" that will blow everyone's mind with it's uberness so why waste time with anything else. Thus perfection becomes the enemy of the good.

For example, a fully ideal solution would not only bring links on grid, but also make them not passive click and forget. Change the gameplay such that the booster has to make decisions and tradeoffs based on what's going on (not just at fitting/undock time).

Think about a remote reactive armor hardener style mod replacing the flat resist bonus, but the booster has to perhaps manually adjust the resist split (via scripts). Same for repper cap vs cycle time. Maybe reduce the bonuses overall but increase their overheat potential, so a skilled PLAYER boosting your fleet can make the difference with the right call at the right time.

Gameplay that turns links into something smart and active (like logistics) is the big win here. I hope that's where the dev delay actually is.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#23 - 2014-07-02 18:42:49 UTC
Kirluin, you are assuming the server calculates overview, which might be a significant assumption. Without knowing what is going on exactly server side, we can't really comment on mechanics.

However your idea of making boosting a more active gameplay role has merit. Even if links remain off field, if the link pilot has to actually make significant decisions during the fight (or simply gains benefit from doing so) then it stops being simply an alt account you park somewhere and becomes something they have to focus on organising.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#24 - 2014-07-02 19:13:40 UTC
I would like to see something a bit more bonkers, at least to the way the average EVE player sees things...

I would rework the targeting system so that you can designate and maintain targets as friend or foe. This would not be a weapons lock, but use lock slots to maintain them as objects of interest, which can be locked but don't need to be.

Then you let links affect all friendly objects without a need to lock. Other modules would require a lock, such as logistics. It still limits boosting to sensor range, which could be set with a seperate stat from lock range.

It also opens the field to true smart munitions. Weapons that can hit without need to lock, like FF missiles and drones could be prioritized based on objects of interest. Turret systems that independently fire could be introduced.

Ships intended for fleet support could be given more slots to track objects of interest than weapon locks.
Damen Apol
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-07-02 19:37:06 UTC
on grid links are a terrible horrible idea beyond mere coding reasons.

moving links on grid makes them exclusively available for large groups and prevents smaller groups from using them, which is always an awful idea.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#26 - 2014-07-02 19:59:19 UTC
How patently false.

Command ships are about as expensive as battleships. T1 Battlecruisers are down right cheap. Training time is equal to all, and call of those ships have utility highs intended for the links.

On grid links would level the playing field. If anything it would favor medium gang engagements with enough members to specialize a few roles, where something like a Damnation is significantly hard enough to kill it becomes an unattractive target. In any large engagements links ships would be primaries off the field in seconds.
Aiyshimin
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#27 - 2014-07-02 20:09:56 UTC
Damen Apol wrote:
on grid links are a terrible horrible idea beyond mere coding reasons.

moving links on grid makes them exclusively available for large groups and prevents smaller groups from using them, which is always an awful idea.


This is one of the usual canned fallacies, and is based on absolutely no facts. Furthermore my suggestion actually favours smaller gangs, since you need one active link pilot for x number of pilots.

Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#28 - 2014-07-02 21:55:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hairpins Blueprint
there was a decent nerf all ready, to the links and the t3's ... now you can prob them links are weeker etc etc. Roll



so leave em alone or get a boosting alt Yo, stop kiling pro solo pvp with army of alt's .... Pirate
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-07-02 22:11:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Madbuster73
Aiyshimin wrote:
Damen Apol wrote:
on grid links are a terrible horrible idea beyond mere coding reasons.

moving links on grid makes them exclusively available for large groups and prevents smaller groups from using them, which is always an awful idea.


This is one of the usual canned fallacies, and is based on absolutely no facts. Furthermore my suggestion actually favours smaller gangs, since you need one active link pilot for x number of pilots.




Links are fine as they are.
Solo and Small gangs that have the balls to fight outnumbered, wouldnt be able to use them anymore,
since the big blobs will just kill the links first.
And the big blobs can safely hide the links in their fleets.

Stop whining about wanting links on grid, it is bad for solo and small gang.
Links cant be used in POS anymore and you can probe them out now.
Yes I know its hard to probe them but it was also hard to train all the Leadership skills for months.

Get over it.

Also please lock this topic since this topic has been discussed for dozens of times. Google first before posting.
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#30 - 2014-07-02 23:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mike Voidstar
I love when people equate links with solo play.

That is exactly one of the problems. Its not solo, duh, because link ship in space. Until you can put some sort of deployable in space with links on it, this isn't anything to do with solo play. Off grid link alt is pretty much just pay to win. This is bad.
Madbuster73
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-07-03 00:16:29 UTC
Mike Voidstar wrote:
I love when people equate links with solo play.

That is exactly one of the problems. Its not solo, duh, because link ship in space. Until you can put some sort of deployable in space with links on it, this isn't anything to do with solo play. Off grid link alt is pretty much just pay to win. This is bad.


Point to me where the linked pilot touched you...

And obviously you cant read since I said that it affects solo players AND small gangs that
actually have the BALLS to undock and fight OUTNUMBERED.
They cant do that anymore with links nerfed to grid.
So that means they will unsub or join bigger blobs, and that is EXACTLY what is killing eve.

Goti fase
Faulcon de Lazy
#32 - 2014-07-03 22:03:10 UTC
My thoughts on bringing boosters on grid are to make boosters reliant on targeting a ship and activating the booster module.

I will elaborate.

To begin with let us say that each level of a particular warfare link skill allows you to activate boosts on one more ship. So if you are squad booster, you will need the full level 5 skill in whatever boosts you are applying to spread your boosts to up to 5 ships in the squad. This means that the booster will have to decide which ships need priority on boosts or will have to fit multiple booster modules of the same type to cover everyone in the squad (a squad consisting of up to 10 squad members).

So, how do we manage boosts?

First of all as I mentioned boosts become on grid by requiring the booster to target lock the ship they want to apply boosts to. Then we need the devs to do a little tinkering with the how the module functions on our UI as I see it like this. You take your cursor over the booster module icon and instantly a column slides upwards out of it with up to 5 buttons which can be used by themselves to manage boosts and you activate each button as normal on whatever target you want. Alternatively you can just click the module icon normally to have the module activate on whatever targets you have locked up or if you have more than 5 targets locked, a random spread of those targets.

This can lead to some interesting situations. ECM and sensor dampening can be used to take out boosters by literally stopping them from applying their boosts to their targeted fleet mates. Maybe it could be worked that a booster who is not paying attention accidentally applies boosts to the enemy with hilarious results I am sure.

And it definitely brings boosters on grid.
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