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[CSM] New Eden Social Club

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Mangala Solaris
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
#21 - 2014-07-02 19:49:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mangala Solaris
EI Digin wrote:
At the end of the day, the entire corp/alliance mechanic must be redone from the ground up because the way social groups form and interact with eachother within the last 10 years has changed. A bandaid solution as suggested by OP would not solve the issue, I think that it would result in more abuse of the currently broken system.

I think that one of the things to investigate as a short-term solution would be the ability to join multiple corps at the same time, however I think that this isn't doable with the current codebase.


This isn't designed as an interim bandaid, its a brainstorm for potential implementation alongside corps/alliances at some future juncture during which they may get reworked. Admittedly if anything from here was added in as a bandaid, it wouldnt shut up the communities that want it, we'd still want to see more (alongside corp revamp, many of us have the worst experiences with those as is...)

if some of the ideas that get espoused here make it into a future system, as part of that then bonus, as you say how corps/people in general interact has changed massively since EVE's inception, identifying both the hows and the what ifs of those social interactions is the aim of this project.
Koz Katral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2014-07-03 11:58:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Koz Katral
EI Digin wrote:
You conveniently forgot


  • The ability to declare war and to be declared on


Which by and large is the reason why you aren't forming a corporation to begin with.


Actually the reason is no restrictions, no CTA's, no serious structure bashes, no bull, no blues, the ability to shoot anyone, and the ability to do it whenever you fancy joining a fleet AND after all that go back to whatever it is you want to do with the rest of your time, be it wormholes, incursions, high sec, low sec, null sec, wherever.

Fortunately most of the people flying with NPSI groups care little for 'leet pvp', dropping supers or only taking engagements with a 3 to 1 t2 logi ratio, and so the additional security and coordination provided by an alliance is unnecessary.

And we do form corporations - there are plenty of NPSI corps that exist as a result of people forming closer friendships within public fleets.

The average persons inability to empathize with those that don't seek to do things exactly the same way they do is fairly common. I don't really fancy having an rmt moon goo overlord and shooting sov structures with a ton of blues or whatever it is null sec alliances do. - I'm sure a lot of people like that kind of thing though.
Black Canary Jnr
Higher Than Everest
#23 - 2014-07-03 12:04:17 UTC
Some of the ideas i like, being able to form a NPSI fleet or language based fleet is a good thing, NPSI communities are an important part of some peoples game play after all. Kill board? Sure, why not.

Then there are ideas i don't think should ever be implemented into the game:

The whole fleet standing gets a no from me.
- It doesn't fix the 'DC issue' because you leave fleet when you DC and unless you just set the entire fleet blue personally it's not going to work.
- It's quite frankly over powered to be able to form 256+ people and have them all blue to each other. If you want to do that stuff join a corp or alliance, there shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for NPSI communities and friendly fire when it's a pretty common occurrence among providence fleets for people to be shooing blues because of standing issues.

And fleet bookmarks - just no. This just destroys the role of interceptors providing good warp ins and makes bombing so much easier. And it's not like bombing is balanced at the moment any ways.
Koz Katral
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2014-07-03 12:09:08 UTC
Black Canary Jnr wrote:
Some of the ideas i like, being able to form a NPSI fleet or language based fleet is a good thing, NPSI communities are an important part of some peoples game play after all. Kill board? Sure, why not.

Then there are ideas i don't think should ever be implemented into the game:

The whole fleet standing gets a no from me.
- It doesn't fix the 'DC issue' because you leave fleet when you DC and unless you just set the entire fleet blue personally it's not going to work.
- It's quite frankly over powered to be able to form 256+ people and have them all blue to each other. If you want to do that stuff join a corp or alliance, there shouldn't be a get out of jail free card for NPSI communities and friendly fire when it's a pretty common occurrence among providence fleets for people to be shooing blues because of standing issues.

And fleet bookmarks - just no. This just destroys the role of interceptors providing good warp ins and makes bombing so much easier. And it's not like bombing is balanced at the moment any ways.


I agree on fleet bookmarks - the people that don't warp where they are told wouldn't use them anyway, and they would still die like lemmings.

As it stands we can and do form fleets that big, and honestly friendly fire incidents are fairly minimal. Its just an extra tedium to mitigate however which doesn't really need to be there. It's not just NPSI groups that benefit from this however - Plenty of small low sec entities will team up with their 'frenemies' to take down larger entities. Fleet standings would just be a quality of life improvement.
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#25 - 2014-07-03 14:16:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Greygal
I agree with most everything already stated in this thread ESPECIALLY OPEN FLEET ADVERTS PLEASE! Just think of the emergent gameplay that could develop out of the ability to advertise an open fleet ... muhahaha!

Seriously, I for one would love not having to spend an hour before a two-to-three hour roam just fleeting up...

Billius Zabub wrote:
That's the key idea behind NPSI and it's something that could help open EVE up to more people: lighter: more accessible pvp. Pvp is a lot of fun/excitement and EVE has a great system for it. But, there are arguably many barriers one has to overcome before getting into enjoyable pvp. These open NPSI fleets provide one of the easiest ways to jump right in.

...

I see NPSI groups as a potential gateway into pvp (more enjoyable, sustaining play) for newer players and bored carebears.

CCP Rise's New Player Experience project should consider what these NPSI groups are doing and perhaps find a way to integrate or encourage these lighter, easier pvp groups so that new players will be more likely to get hooked on the best part of EVE.


Totally on the mark here, Billius. NPSI absolutely is a gateway drug into PVP for many, many pilots.

For me, by design, my Redemption Roams are kept smaller, faster and lighter on the wallet to specifically be less intimidating for new/newer players, while also engaging and fun for the more experienced pilots who join my roams. My entire fleet always gets such a kick out of it when a 2-week-old player joins our fleet - oftentimes I have to hand them a racial frigate skillbook or turret skillbook just to get them into a ship before we undock :) It's simply adorable!! Ganked has evolved into THE premiere community to get your big fleet fight fix with. Spectre offers drop-in fleets throughout most of the day, no need to set your alarm clock or mark your calender, just hop into chat and X up. Each of us offers something different to the community at large, but we all have one thing in common: You are always welcome, regardless of your experience.

We spread our addiction, our love, of PVP to others and we do it with the most gawd-awful fleet UI and a hodgepodge of out-of-game tools and in-game mailing lists and chat channels that only a sadist could have designed.... heheh...

But anyways, back to my point: I have lost count of how many people have had their first PVP experience be in one of my roams, then come back the next week, the week after, again and again, eventually stick their toes into the deep waters that is Ganked or Bombers Bar, then Spectre, and others. As they gained confidence, they "graduated" to joining existing PVP corps, or starting their own, or just increasing the amount of PVP they do within their carebear corps.

There are numerous corps who send their new players on my roams right away, to get them over the fear of dying and to learn how to fly in a fleet without knowing they are actually learning ;)

But NPSI doesn't just offer new players a fun, no-pressure PVP environment; they also offer more experienced pilots a "safe" environment to try flying new roles such as scouting, skirmishing, logistics, or even fleet command! By "safe," I mean nothing "serious" is on the line :)

Numerous first-time FCs on my roams now FC for their own alliances several times a week. More skirmishers than I can count got their experience scouting and skirmishing for Ganked and Redemption before they started skirmishing for their own alliances and corps. There is a logi pilot I know who got recruited into one of the upper-tier alliance tournament teams after someone else saw him on one of my roams. Damn it, I wish I grabbed him first for my own team ;)

NPSI is not just about casual PVP roaming in a fun, carefree environment; we're not just creating community content and communities, we're helping develop the next generation of content creators, fleet commanders, hero tacklers and beloved logi pilots across New Eden.

Any UI changes, small features, or additions that CCP can make to the client to ease the organizing and operation of NPSI and other community events are little things that have huge payoffs in more ways than just NPSI.

GG

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information

Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#26 - 2014-07-03 14:40:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Greygal
So, now that I've waxed poetic above, guess I better post my own "little things list" that would make my own life easier for organizing and running public fleets and the Redemption Roam NPSI community, including little things other community leaders have mentioned to me before:

1. Ability to advertise a fleet as "open to all." Oh please, please, I beg for this!

2. Ability to post calendar events as "open to all." I bugged CCP Guard for this during the last Eve Vegas ;)

3. Ability to assign a short-cut key to the following broadcasts: Align, Warp, Jump. Right-mouse-click carpel tunnel is setting in hardcore...

4. Lift the 50-person immediate mode limit on chat channels to 200 or more. Better yet, get rid of delayed mode in chat channels completely.

5. Greatly increase the number of contacts we can have in our contacts - pruning contact lists is a major PITA.

6. Remove any hard cap on the number of people that can join a mailing list.

7. Add additional "role" levels to chat room operators, so that I can, for example, grant someone the right to change the MOTD but not edit the banned list, or other variations of chat room operator access. As it is right now, anyone with operator rights to a chat room can do pretty much everything the owner can. There should be the ability to limit what an operator can do.

8. Same thing with mailing list operators, more options to what a specific operator can and cannot do with a mailing list.

9. Numerous other little things that escape my mind right now but I'll edit and post when my mind returns ;)

Just my two bytes,

GG

EDIT: Mind returned briefly...

10. Make it so we can link mailing lists, along with chat rooms.

11. Increase and/or remove character limits in MOTD.

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

Free weekly public roams & monthly NewBro new player roams!

Visit Redemption Road or join mailing list REDEMPTION ROAMS for information

Jayne Fillon
#27 - 2014-07-03 23:55:28 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
You conveniently forgot

  • The ability to declare war and to be declared on

Which by and large is the reason why you aren't forming a corporation to begin with.

The issue here is with wars, not with NPSI, player run events, or corporation.

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Jayne Fillon
#28 - 2014-07-04 00:00:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jayne Fillon
Greygal wrote:
I agree with most everything already stated in this thread ESPECIALLY OPEN FLEET ADVERTS PLEASE! Just think of the emergent gameplay that could develop out of the ability to advertise an open fleet ... muhahaha!

Seriously, I for one would love not having to spend an hour before a two-to-three hour roam just fleeting up...

Billius Zabub wrote:
That's the key idea behind NPSI and it's something that could help open EVE up to more people: lighter: more accessible pvp. Pvp is a lot of fun/excitement and EVE has a great system for it. But, there are arguably many barriers one has to overcome before getting into enjoyable pvp. These open NPSI fleets provide one of the easiest ways to jump right in.

...

I see NPSI groups as a potential gateway into pvp (more enjoyable, sustaining play) for newer players and bored carebears.

CCP Rise's New Player Experience project should consider what these NPSI groups are doing and perhaps find a way to integrate or encourage these lighter, easier pvp groups so that new players will be more likely to get hooked on the best part of EVE.


Totally on the mark here, Billius. NPSI absolutely is a gateway drug into PVP for many, many pilots.

For me, by design, my Redemption Roams are kept smaller, faster and lighter on the wallet to specifically be less intimidating for new/newer players, while also engaging and fun for the more experienced pilots who join my roams. My entire fleet always gets such a kick out of it when a 2-week-old player joins our fleet - oftentimes I have to hand them a racial frigate skillbook or turret skillbook just to get them into a ship before we undock :) It's simply adorable!! Ganked has evolved into THE premiere community to get your big fleet fight fix with. Spectre offers drop-in fleets throughout most of the day, no need to set your alarm clock or mark your calender, just hop into chat and X up. Each of us offers something different to the community at large, but we all have one thing in common: You are always welcome, regardless of your experience.

We spread our addiction, our love, of PVP to others and we do it with the most gawd-awful fleet UI and a hodgepodge of out-of-game tools and in-game mailing lists and chat channels that only a sadist could have designed.... heheh...

But anyways, back to my point: I have lost count of how many people have had their first PVP experience be in one of my roams, then come back the next week, the week after, again and again, eventually stick their toes into the deep waters that is Ganked, or the now-defunct Bombers Bar, then Spectre, and others. As they gained confidence, they "graduated" to joining existing PVP corps, or starting their own, or just increasing the amount of PVP they do within their carebear corps.

There are numerous corps who send their new players on my roams right away, to get them over the fear of dying and to learn how to fly in a fleet without knowing they are actually learning ;)

But NPSI doesn't just offer new players a fun, no-pressure PVP environment; they also offer more experienced pilots a "safe" environment to try flying new roles such as scouting, skirmishing, logistics, or even fleet command! By "safe," I mean nothing "serious" is on the line :)

Numerous first-time FCs on my roams now FC for their own alliances several times a week. More skirmishers than I can count got their experience scouting and skirmishing for Ganked and Redemption before they started skirmishing for their own alliances and corps. There is a logi pilot I know who got recruited into one of the upper-tier alliance tournament teams after someone else saw him on one of my roams. Damn it, I wish I grabbed him first for my own team ;)

NPSI is not just about casual PVP roaming in a fun, carefree environment; we're not just creating community content and communities, we're helping develop the next generation of content creators, fleet commanders, hero tacklers and beloved logi pilots across New Eden.

Any UI changes, small features, or additions that CCP can make to the client to ease the organizing and operation of NPSI and other community events are little things that have huge payoffs in more ways than just NPSI.

GG



I'm going to frame this post and put in on my wall. This is exactly why we do what we do.

EDIT: I also like your list, GG. I'll get around to posting my own once I take in others people's suggestions first. xD

Can't shoot blues if you don't have any. Long Live NPSI.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-07-04 08:38:06 UTC
+999

The NPSI communities are the best I figured out about EvE so far (beside purposely "misfitting" non-combat shipsSmile)

Many good ideas already above!

Regarding fleets, limits, DCs ... what about having an overflow list for fleets. If the fleet is full, people getting invited will be placed there. Also people having a DC will be moved there automatically. Being part of the overflow gives you the right to see the fleet comms and receive the "in fleet" tag, but you don't receive any bonus and can't take part in activities (like fleet warp, warp to member, etc.) - you are an inactive member of the fleet waiting for assignment to a squad.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#30 - 2014-07-04 10:39:07 UTC
+1

I can't really see any downsides to improving group tools. I probably wouldn't use them myself but the fact that others would use them means we'd probably all get more fights.

Sean Sonnach
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2014-07-04 11:14:55 UTC
I would suggest more group modes in channels, i.e. not just operator. A "trusted" mode could be useful. and leads onto my next point.

I think incursion and NPSI would use this if it were possible, a filtered post. So, you post a fit and x up, but select to x up in hidden mode, so only the operator i.e. FC can see it. It helps keep intel on ship types and fleet numbers safe, without using external game tools. FCs could filter background chat when forming fleet and filter to show only the posts of fits/x directed to them etc etc. Could also be used in fleet chat itself for scouts to relay intel to the FC discretely. Not sure if this would be a nightmare to make happen but just an idea.

MOTDs are a little broken, anyone who has tried to set upe up will find that there are issues with character limitations and what font colour size you use and you basically can't ever post the max number of character you are supposed to be able to. I think everyone will benefit form a MOTD fix.

Channel links. it is a pain to create a channel link. How about a simple function that ingame channels get a self link in their MOTD when you make them? Is this something impossible? I think it would be useful.

How about a limited open fleet advert, i.e. limited to the system the FC/boss iscurrently in, available in the fleet finder, and linkable in channels for others outside system. Everyone would like this sort of thing.

The channel tab system get s small and unreadable if you have many chat channels open and stacked. How about a front tab only visible, with channels that flash tabbing to just behind the active chat window. would certainly save a lot of messing with channels for FCs or all walks of eve.

I have to say, CCP have done a lot of very nice change to the UI of fleets, form watchlists, clear broadcasts, drag drop invites. Making life easier is good. Easy access fleet broadcast buttons for FC could be good, for aligns and warps tos etc....but so far so goo

Peter Dostoevsky
Fast Eddy's X-ploding Diner
#32 - 2014-07-04 15:07:47 UTC
Sean Sonnach wrote:
Channel links. it is a pain to create a channel link. How about a simple function that ingame channels get a self link in their MOTD when you make them? Is this something impossible? I think it would be useful.

Not sure what the limitations are, but you can drag "some" channels from the channel window into chat to link them now: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/little-things-in-kronos/
Sean Sonnach
4S Corporation
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2014-07-04 22:00:12 UTC
Peter Dostoevsky wrote:
Sean Sonnach wrote:
Channel links. it is a pain to create a channel link. How about a simple function that ingame channels get a self link in their MOTD when you make them? Is this something impossible? I think it would be useful.

Not sure what the limitations are, but you can drag "some" channels from the channel window into chat to link them now: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/little-things-in-kronos/



That does make it easier, and I missed it. But still messing with notepad and make your own link.
Demyen
Araata-Teiva Kamloss
#34 - 2014-07-07 02:30:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Demyen
I don't have any substantive thoughts on this yet besides being in favor of it, but if the final feature is distinct enough to merit an in-game name, please try to help it be a not dumb name. Neither "social clubs" nor "social groups" sound...New Eden-y to me. Extra-Corporate Capsuleer Organizations (ECCOs) maybe? I dunno. But I like the way they chose the name for ISIS, so moar of that plz.

I know this is really superficial, but it makes a difference.
Coffeinum
#35 - 2014-07-08 08:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Coffeinum
1. Make it possible to advertise fleets via mailing lists and/or create an event in the calendar. OR add fleet ads for channels that a pilot is in.

2. Add the option to have a waitlist for a fleet advertisements if the person is on the mailing list that the fleet was advertised with; fc & wc & sc can see ship fitting, location and the time the person enlisted.

3. Add a rectangle selection tool(like blender hotkey 'b') for selecting several pilots in space at the same time and the possibilty to either change their color or hide them from the overview etc.

4. not sure about this one: more micromanagement for fleets in the form of having the option to color (or maybe change saturation or blink frequency) of broadcasted targets by who broadcasted it (fleetmember < squadmember < squadcommander < wingcommander < fleetcommander). I'm not sure about the broadcast 'spotted an enemy' since i have never seen any fleet use that. Logically it seems to me that target calling should be using that instead of using the standard 'target' since that might lead to friendly fire. Everyone in fleet can broadcast a 'target' to draw the fleets attention to it (i.e. logis broadcasting afks, disconnects, bombers or herotackles) but only sc/wc/fc can broadcast 'spotted enemy' for hostiles. btw is there a way to see who broadcasted something? if not add that
Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
#36 - 2014-07-08 21:24:01 UTC
I just want to +1 your idea, a new set of hierarchy tools available to common goal groups would be extremely helpful to many aspects of EVE.

Things that keep me up at night;  Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state, Once you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another.

Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-07-16 11:36:50 UTC
No real comments from me either
just a supporting +1


Why your getting my +1
It's an MMO, anything that helps/supports social/group interaction in a positive way, I believe can only help eve in the long run.
Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#38 - 2014-07-17 08:02:27 UTC
Just my top items. They are not really just for NPSI, they would make lots of thing easy for others as well.

1. Fleet bookmarks. Really we already have shared bookmarks with jetcans and trade. Its horrible and broken. But clearly the idea of sharing bookmarks outside a corp is something that can already be done. Just fix it a bit. This would have zero effect on interceptors. You don't bookmark a target, you warp to your cepter.

2. Metafleets. fleets of fleets. If that implemented via temp standing fine. But there are cases, not just in NPSI groups, where "combined operations" are pretty standard. Don't make us fight the UI for something that is clearly ok to do.

3. Bulk ship fitting. We have in the past given out free fitted ships. Fitting 200 rifters is no fun at all. We should be able to just click 100 hulls and do a "fit all" or something. Clearly this will help big corps as much as our smaller NPSI communities.

As for NPSI to avoid wardecs? PvPers don't avoid wardecs!

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#39 - 2014-07-18 08:58:41 UTC
I should add that the ultimate way to avoid wardecs is not NPSI communities, but NPC corps. Incursion runners anyone?

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.

Emma Verondi
Highfarer-TerraCo Enterprises
#40 - 2014-07-21 12:14:45 UTC
Something that might make the life easier, and in some aspects - more worrysome, for a corp that would run public fleets is the ability to set the fleet as open to everyone and anyone.
See this thread for more info!

Best regards,
Emma

"Forgotten were the elementary rules of logic, that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence" - Christopher Hitchens, 2007

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