Crime & Punishment

Actually, since you completely picked apart a brief, yet suprisingly thorough write up of how to handle a war dec without giving your would be opposition the glory in making you 'turn tail and run' as it were;

i dismissed that write up for one reason that you seemed to miss:

it forces me into a very narrow set of play options that i do not enjoy. why should i be forced to grab a cloaky ship and dodge pirates in lo-sec for 7 days? (or 14...21... 28 days... however long the griefers feel like keeping me dec'd?)

you give me half a dozen reasons basically saying your entirely to lazy

lazy? this is a computer game. we're all sitting here on our butts tapping a keyboard and clicking a mouse. i think you need to get outside and chop some wood or build a stone wall or something to gain some perspective on what the words "effort" and "work" really mean.

and how dare the them for mettling with your simple wishes to be an all inclusive ****** I mean carebear to your hearts content.

how dare those carebears mettle with your right to abuse people and make them quit the game!!! those carebears should just mind their own-

oh wait.

However, EvE being the multi-faceted beast that it is, deems PvP as a multitude of things,

see, right there youre actually conceded my argument (eve is multi-faceted and thus pvp is only one small part of it), yet at the same time, your ego doesnt let you do this, so you broaden the definition of pvp to include everything.

alright fine. hey, we're pvping right now. but why are you so angry about it? i thought you liked pvp.

oh, right. you only like pvp when you have the advantage. you dont have the advantage here because you simply cannot hold your own in a debate with me. which is why youre raging... and why you wanted my main character name... to take it in game... and "teach me a lesson" about making you look foolish on the forums huh...

All the examples previously mentioned are all forms of PvP. If nobody died- there wouldn't be a drive for item/ship/module production, if there was no production, there would be no mining, and if there were no mining, there would also be no ratting, and if there were no ratting, we'll we'd all be running L5's/Incursions for the hell of it, enjoying our utopian paradise where nothing ever, under any circumstances gets exploded... does this sound fun to you? Amazing, go download a trainer and play Command and Conquer or some other ****** RTS.

until you can provide some quotes from me wherein i state that wardecs should be removed entirely, or that there should never be any pvp in the game, statements such as these remain straw men and thus not worthy of actual rebuttal.

Because its ******* dull.

for you, maybe. but then gain, no one is forcing you to do it, now are they? see thats the problem with your argument: its founded on a sense of entitlement resulting in a fundamental hypocrisy and irrationality.

see, for me, and many others, mining, building things, etc... are fun, enjoyable ways to pass the time. you find it dull. that is alright. no one will force you to mine. any suggestion that you should be forced to mine would probably be met with much outrage and crying.
for you, and many others, blowing things up and pvping are fun and enjoyable ways to pass the time. i for one find it dull and a pain in the arse. but heres the problem - you are arguing that i should be forced to pvp because thats what you want to do. eve ceases to be a sandbox and becomes "xolve online".

this is what makes your argument unfounded, illogical, and immoral. its also what makes you a "bully in the sandbox".

I eagerly await your response about what a terrible poster I am, and how I must be wrong.

i don't think youre a bad poster. i just think you carry a lot of pain around inside. i also think youre an abusive person and a bully who probably suffers from borderline personality disorder. its simply the only way i can explain the irrational, abusive, and entitlement viewpoint youre arguing from. i would suggest therapy if you can afford it.

also... its very revealing that youre arguing that not only should you have the right to bully, bash, and harass me whenever you feel like it... but that i should also learn to enjoy it. one of the fundamental hallmarks of degenerate sociopaths is the intense desire and fantasy to find a willing victim...

inb4 more rage and illogical statements from xolve.

heh, xolve is trying to play mature now that ive pointed out that he was raging earlier.

but okay, if you want to play nice, i wont begrudge you. :)

Uhm, actually it was a brief list at SOME of the possibilities you could use to escape said entrapment. Only one of them was to actually stand and fight, and I understand on alot of levels, why that isn't necessarily appealing to most people.

while i actually appreciate you seeing it from my perspective, you fall a bit short: can you also see, from my perspective, why it also is not appealing for my small corp to venture into lo-sec (where we won't get a 24 hour warning if someone decides to shoot at us) and be forced to fly nothing but fast, cloaky ships?

also, you told us to change systems. i responded that they can simply use a locator agent. how is that "an excuse that makes me lazy"?

I was leaning more for the laziness at an adaptability standpoint, essentially you want to be left alone in your little spacegame, just you and your friends, doing whatever it is you do- thats fine. Understood even, but change happens in everything, its just a matter of if your capable of embracing it or not. Which clearly, you are not.

change happens in everything - yet youre arguing so adamantly against an update of wardec mechanics!

its okay for things to change just so long as no one suggests a change that you dont like.

Well up until CCP release'd the worst expansion ever, Incarna; they had a more then solid player base, that embraced the idea that this game is rough; There is risk vs. reward, and in most situations, it is possible to have small scale profiteering erupt into a full fledged war, at a moments notice.

im not saying there shouldnt be risk in the game. there is always suicide-ganking (ive suffered a few of those myself).

however if a 20 man corp full of experienced players wardecs a small 5 man corp of noobies... where is their risk?

see, this is what makes me say youre just entitled. youre putting all the burden and responsibility and risk on one party: the victims. this is what makes you a bully. bullies always blame their victims.

My biggest argument against your views lies here for the most part. Everyone accumulates wealth in this game, in one form or another through various revenue streams. Inevitably someone else realizes that 'hey- their stream is more lucrative then ours; lets take them out, and make more money'. Typical modern day American business doctrine really, the methods can change, the results are still pretty similar, it just relies in the vehicle in which said judgement was carried out.

im not going to say this doesnt happen in eve... but for the most part, what were discussing here is how wardec mechanics can be abused by griefers to completely deny people the ability to play the game. i highly, highly, HIGHLY doubt that the people who wardecced my corp are doing so to prevent us mining veldspar in egyfe or because our revenue stream from running missions is interfering with their game.

No my argument is founded on the basic principle that I am going to play the game however I want, and so are you, you know- that basic sandbox theory.. Your sitting here trying to reason us with why we should give a single gram of **** about the way you like to space jew it up- yet we, the amassed bullies of EvE should be punished for cyber bulling and therefore we are all thereby societal rejects hosting a vast array of psychological problems.

lets leave the anti-semitism out of this, shall we? although i am not surprised you harbor racist, bigoted sentiments, this is simply not the place for that sort of commentary.

now, moving on:

i never said anything about punishing anyone. please quote me on that.

youre arguing for playing the game however you want, and youre asking me to give a sh*t about it
-meanwhile-
saying you dont give a **** about me wanting to play the game how i want
-furthermore-
your style of gameplay interferes with my style of gameplay
-therefore-
i should be unsympathetic with you
-however-
i am a rational, fair enough person to respect your interests
-therefore-
i feel the wardec mechanics should be updated in such a way that allows us to come to a compromise
-wherein-
you can play how you want to play and i can play how i want to play
-currently-
the mechanics are set up in such a way that i am forced to play the game the way you want
-the fact is-
ccp grants validity to my argument by changing the wardec mechanic insofar as players can hop alliance to clear a dec

When actually, most of us have been here for years, and we are sick and tired of whiny carebears changing our game for the worse when game mechanics that have been "working as intended" for damn near a decade are now being fixed because mouth breathing retards fail to read a warning box.

ah theres that self-righteous rage again...

so by me being prevented from playing the game -at all-, this is actually intended? is ccp trying make money or what?

Given your penchant for bad attempts at slanderous rage, its no small wonder you have been war-dec'd for 2 months. Most people just drop corp, hold it with an alt, and make a new one.

please see my link concerning "fundamental attribution error". thanks.

in other words, your concession is accepted (again)

This is a great idea! Every aspect of this is winning!

It will be nice to watch all the high sec thugs have ot go find legitimate targets to shoot. Many will be shocked when these new targets shoot back!

Is the reply I was expecting really

I have a completely different take on this subject. Ofcourse one should be able to wardec highsec corporations. Yet these corporations should have means to drop it aswell.
The reason for this is :
You see this great trailer of what you can become in EvE, you think, thats my kind of game. You realize that youll have to put effort in and will be in for the long run to get the full experience. You decide to subscribe only to soon find out that you either have to join a large alliance as a member or your small corporation to be able to experience the larger scale of the game. It strongly says, youll never be the head of this large alliance who can afford to field a titan or whatever, that position is already taken. Line the pockets of the current owners!

Ide say, every new player should be able if they wanted to, and puts the dedication and time into it, to ultimatly form an competitive alliance and have a home in nullsec (lowsec) or where ever they want. This is nearly impossible with just these handfull off large alliances that have taken control of the entire nullsec area. Like stated, only if you put your corporation or your self in such an alliance would you be able to experience the larger scaled game but never from an alliance CEO perspective.
This is why a starting corporation should have means to drop the wardec. It means if they wanted to, they could grow out to become whatever they want.

As a sidenote, i think nullsec would be much more interesting without these handfull of large alliances (5 or 6)and instead would exist out of many, many smaller alliances ( a hundred or so). I also dont understand some corporations within these very large alliances. You are already in their space. You already have corps within that alliance who you work well with and some you cant stand. It would be so easy for you to decide one day to leave that large alliance (planned correctly) together with thse corporations you work well with and form an alliance. Than Claim the space you already occupy and stop paying RENT!. Planned properly, scaled properly….what are they going to do about it?

Anyways, that was a sidenote, and people in alliances will all probably be entirely happy about the fact they where forced into the alliance to experience the entire game or get griefed untill unsub or join. (ofcourse not everyone felt forced)

Another thing, i said nearly impossible. I only say this to every new player, it is a sandbox and people can keep repeating how the game Works, but they are wrong, they are only telling you how it Works for them. One could only explain how the tools work. Come up with something that has not been done before, and there is to much to mention (let your imagination flow and try to shape it into a feasible plan), and even small corps can bring down large alliances…….im serious and not talking about befriending and work your way up hahahahah.

Sometimes it seems to be forgotten that economics can make or brake any corporation or alliance……think outside the box, the surprise alone could make the difference as they would not know how to handle it at First since they rusted into this…..this is how it Works….while its a sandbox

Nope, new players, should be able to reach that level at a given time when the right amount of time has passed and the right plan is developed, youll see....

My argument wasn't really against the Idea of Dec Shield but mainly the carebears that think they are entitled to a no-risk environment. Some people just want to watch the world burn, Me? I am glad to be one of those people. Unprovoked Agression as 'bullying' is a weak argument, saying EvE isn't a 'PvP'-centric game is ignorant, and the recent lack of CCP HTFU is honestly... kind of disheartening. I guess really its just me being all ::bittervet:: that something deemed as an exploit for years is now perfectly within reason.

I can sympathize with both sides though- I was once a newbie that got war dec'd by a griefer corp and lost my mission Drake.. and I was also the Merc that got paid to demonize the hell out of random newbies that pissed someone off. For me at least, PvP was always the most enjoyable way to play the game.. I have many fond memories of PvP in EvE, and not a single "remember when.." about any PvE content.

tl;dr but I can tell you this guy Xolve is a total idiot don't listen to anything he has to say and he has a lot to say ^^

The reason Dec Shield is not a good idea is cause we been killing your corps members - we found all we have to do is make our own corp dec it for 2 million isk and then we get cheap pew. It's awesome idea I hope more corps use Dec Shield as now my guys just do some quick research into your members and presto easy kills.

The bad thing is anybody worth killing is probably not going to use Dec Shield. So you get a lot of trash, but hey 20 points is 20 points.

Well i think PRVTR had its first Dec Shield thing. Good service would use again.