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Garmurs..............

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Garandras
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-07-01 00:14:16 UTC
I can say I was flying my Garmur (unlinked or boosted) and lost it to a Dram.. it was faster then me and got a scram.

Does that make the Dram broken?
Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#42 - 2014-07-01 13:59:19 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hershman wrote:
You got the right idea though. If youre going to question CCP then question why they haven't fixed off-grid links.

But about the Garmur, just compare it to other pirate faction frigs like the Worm (10k ehp 250 dps drones) or the Daredevil (two light neutron blasters = 475 dps). Consider the different roles and potential of similar ships in this class. I believe it is not OP.

But as long as system wide links are present any ship is this game is broken.



Because, right now, forcing links to be on grid would make Veritas cry, and TQ lag like a very laggy thing.

Steps are being taken.


Given the amount of time they've done nothing it clearly isn't a priority.

It should be a priority.

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#43 - 2014-07-01 14:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Hershman
And if not then remove fleet boosting from the game and reimburse leadership skill points until it becomes a priority.

I'm not exaggerating. That's how broken it is.

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-07-01 14:34:31 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hershman wrote:
You got the right idea though. If youre going to question CCP then question why they haven't fixed off-grid links.

But about the Garmur, just compare it to other pirate faction frigs like the Worm (10k ehp 250 dps drones) or the Daredevil (two light neutron blasters = 475 dps). Consider the different roles and potential of similar ships in this class. I believe it is not OP.

But as long as system wide links are present any ship is this game is broken.



Because, right now, forcing links to be on grid would make Veritas cry, and TQ lag like a very laggy thing.

Steps are being taken.


Making TQ lag -> Not good.
Making Veritas cry -> possibly amusing.

Nah, not worth it.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2014-07-01 14:35:23 UTC
Garandras wrote:
I can say I was flying my Garmur (unlinked or boosted) and lost it to a Dram.. it was faster then me and got a scram.

Does that make the Dram broken?


The dram is perenially broken. It is the broken by which all other broken is measured.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Nimrod vanHall
Van Mij Belastingvrij
#46 - 2014-07-01 15:04:52 UTC
Adira Nictor wrote:
Say hello to sentry drones with tracking links, how do you think we used to deal with nano's before, and they move a lot faster back then.


Hmmm that works?? I kinda assumed that sentries would not be affected in the same way as leadership links.

wanders of dreaming of a ceptor blapping rattlesnake
Liam Inkuras
Furnace
#47 - 2014-07-01 18:10:26 UTC
You are describing a HG Snaked, Skirmish linked, Quafe Zero'd, Zor's mind linked, and pimp-fit Garmur with a couple speed mods. Take any other frig and give it the same treatment, and you will find similar results.

I wear my goggles at night.

Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#48 - 2014-07-01 18:48:56 UTC
Hershman wrote:
And if not then remove fleet boosting from the game and reimburse leadership skill points until it becomes a priority.

I'm not exaggerating. That's how broken it is.


I don't understand the argument that off-grid boosters are broken - not trolling ...

vOv

Thank me later :D
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#49 - 2014-07-01 18:49:00 UTC
Hershman wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hershman wrote:
You got the right idea though. If youre going to question CCP then question why they haven't fixed off-grid links.

But about the Garmur, just compare it to other pirate faction frigs like the Worm (10k ehp 250 dps drones) or the Daredevil (two light neutron blasters = 475 dps). Consider the different roles and potential of similar ships in this class. I believe it is not OP.

But as long as system wide links are present any ship is this game is broken.



Because, right now, forcing links to be on grid would make Veritas cry, and TQ lag like a very laggy thing.

Steps are being taken.


Given the amount of time they've done nothing it clearly isn't a priority.

It should be a priority.



So, the fact something hasn't happened in the past, but is happening now = it's not a priority?

Your logic is a little faulty.

Right now, Team Gridlock is working on rewriting Dogma, the engine behind all the attributes in Eve. It's a step forwards.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#50 - 2014-07-01 18:55:46 UTC
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Hershman wrote:
And if not then remove fleet boosting from the game and reimburse leadership skill points until it becomes a priority.

I'm not exaggerating. That's how broken it is.


I don't understand the argument that off-grid boosters are broken - not trolling ...

vOv



Short version:

There's something which you can't attack, which is having an effect on combat.



Yes, you can scan them down, but if they're paying attention, you /cannot/ catch them.

There's also no way to determine if links are in effect. So the decision to engage or not is more difficult.

And then there's the significant advantage that it gives defenders. (You crash a gate camp. you can't have an off grid booster.)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#51 - 2014-07-01 18:59:25 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Right now, Team Gridlock is working on rewriting Dogma, the engine behind all the attributes in Eve. It's a step forwards.

So they're re-writing something fundamental to Eve. Which, in all likelihood, *might* hit TQ by 2015. And, given the present levels of quality, is likely to be full of colossal cock-ups.

Color me vaguely terrified in a "way in the future" sort of fashion.

MDD
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#52 - 2014-07-01 19:01:26 UTC
Phaade wrote:
Linked Garmur:

9km/s
60km point range
140dps
6k ehp

If that doesn't scream broken, I don't know what does.

Missiles can't catch it, drones can't catch it, guns can't track it....

Why CCP, why did you do this.


I've been playing with it in EFT, and I'm interested to see this fit that is 9km/s and 6k ehp. I can only get it up to 8522 m/s with 5,906 EHP, and that's a pretty silly fit.

Bacon makes us stronger
Carmen Electra
AlcoDOTTE
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#53 - 2014-07-01 19:04:15 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
And then there's the significant advantage that it gives defenders. (You crash a gate camp. you can't have an off grid booster.)


I never travel anywhere without first BLOPSing in my link T3 so I can have my own off grid boosts in the event of a gate camp.

Bacon makes us stronger
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#54 - 2014-07-01 19:58:42 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Hershman wrote:
And if not then remove fleet boosting from the game and reimburse leadership skill points until it becomes a priority.

I'm not exaggerating. That's how broken it is.


I don't understand the argument that off-grid boosters are broken - not trolling ...

vOv



Short version:

There's something which you can't attack, which is having an effect on combat.



Yes, you can scan them down, but if they're paying attention, you /cannot/ catch them.

There's also no way to determine if links are in effect. So the decision to engage or not is more difficult.

And then there's the significant advantage that it gives defenders. (You crash a gate camp. you can't have an off grid booster.)





There are vays to scan them down without them knowing they are being scanned down. Cool

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Gavin Dax
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2014-07-01 20:22:24 UTC
The Garmur is exactly what EVE needed... another kiting ship lol. As if there weren't already enough.

These new ships are a joke. EVE needs more brawlers that can actually control range. Not more kiting ships, which as has already been said just become even more overpowered with off-grid links.
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley
New Eden Tech Support
#56 - 2014-07-01 20:31:39 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Jamwara DelCalicoe Ashley wrote:
Hershman wrote:
And if not then remove fleet boosting from the game and reimburse leadership skill points until it becomes a priority.

I'm not exaggerating. That's how broken it is.


I don't understand the argument that off-grid boosters are broken - not trolling ...

vOv



Short version:

There's something which you can't attack, which is having an effect on combat.



Yes, you can scan them down, but if they're paying attention, you /cannot/ catch them.

There's also no way to determine if links are in effect. So the decision to engage or not is more difficult.

And then there's the significant advantage that it gives defenders. (You crash a gate camp. you can't have an off grid booster.)


So what? Bring some friends. I also noticed that you had to put "cannot" in quotes/brackets etc ... you could always figure out who their alt corps are and infiltrate/dec them, yeah?

The risk v. reward argument is legit ... have you looked at the training time required for a viable cloaky boosting toon? It's kind of a lot.

Thank me later :D
Medalyn Isis
Doomheim
#57 - 2014-07-01 20:42:10 UTC
Garandras wrote:
I can say I was flying my Garmur (unlinked or boosted) and lost it to a Dram.. it was faster then me and got a scram.

Does that make the Dram broken?

A dram or interceptor is the only ship which can catch the Garmur. I went over this ad nauseam in the feedback thread, stating that the Garmur would indeed be OP. Rise even admitted himself that it was probably OP. The usual trolls and numptys where shouting louder though and the concerns of myself and a few others went unheeded. The Garmur should have never been released on tranquillity in its current state.

On a side note, I think a minmatar, caldari hybrid would have worked much better, with missiles from caldari and a target painting bonus from minmatar. Would have been really powerful and nice to have seen what a missile battleship could do with those two bonuses combined.
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2014-07-01 22:23:12 UTC
I don't suppose you'd consider a look at the woodchuck dilemma...What?

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
Xeator
soldiers.fi
#59 - 2014-07-01 22:30:27 UTC
Just gonna pop by here briefly.

If you are having trouble with the garmur maybe you should really try to grasp what this game is all about.

Target the weaknesses.

It has a pathetic lock range and if one is to take advantage of the long range point and great speeds you are generally looking at a very specific fit.

Its either sebo or sig amp, or both. Depending on how far you want to push it. Again, very specific. What does this in turn mean? Less speed, less tank, maybe even less damage.

Ok so now you have a ship that has little to no tank, exploitable lock range. What on earth could one do?

Definitely not use the sensor damp thats for sure! Oh look a keres landed on grid, oh look the garmur cant do ****. Boom son you just made him leave or push in closer for you to point.

OP ship? Not in a million years.
Hershman
Creepers Corporation
#60 - 2014-07-02 00:32:02 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hershman wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
Hershman wrote:
You got the right idea though. If youre going to question CCP then question why they haven't fixed off-grid links.

But about the Garmur, just compare it to other pirate faction frigs like the Worm (10k ehp 250 dps drones) or the Daredevil (two light neutron blasters = 475 dps). Consider the different roles and potential of similar ships in this class. I believe it is not OP.

But as long as system wide links are present any ship is this game is broken.



Because, right now, forcing links to be on grid would make Veritas cry, and TQ lag like a very laggy thing.

Steps are being taken.


Given the amount of time they've done nothing it clearly isn't a priority.

It should be a priority.



So, the fact something hasn't happened in the past, but is happening now = it's not a priority?

Your logic is a little faulty.

Right now, Team Gridlock is working on rewriting Dogma, the engine behind all the attributes in Eve. It's a step forwards.


Pretty sure Fozzie said last year they were working on it, wouldn't surprise me if longer though. Since then no results or means to diminish the negative side effects of this broken feature. No update on progress, no general ETA on a hotfix, no announcement they hired more ppl to help fix it, and during Fanfest 2014 not a singe mention of the issue.

Not even a Soon(tm). That's what I meant by "nothing". And this also indicates it's not their highest priority. So you see my logic is not so flawed.

By all means, if there is progress being made do tell. Because I know a lot of the community is pissed right now.

I play EVE every day! Follow me at http://www.twitch.tv/matthershman