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Proof that isboxer breaks the eula

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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#21 - 2014-07-01 13:40:51 UTC
And now we can enter the realm of speculation where we create assumptions over why CCP does not apply the banhammer to the ISBoxer armadas.

Anyone got 1600mm Layered Aluminium Plating and some EM Hardeners?

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-07-01 13:41:04 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
40 skiffs mining in an ice field in hi-sec, the belt lasts no more than 30 minutes if he is there. During this time I estimate he must get 40 ice per skiff, 40 skiffs. That's 1600 blocks of ice, at 320k per block that is 500 million isk that he earns from 30 minutes of play, in hi-sec.

Not only does he earn isk far faster than would be possible for him if he wasn't using a 3rd party program to send keystrokes to the clients, but he ruins the game for normal players.
What makes it impossible for 40 skiffs to do the exact same thing without the software? How is it accelerated? Do non-ISboxed skiffs somehow have a different yield so that it takes them 40 minutes to do the same job?

Abrazzar wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP said ISboxer is allowed.

/thread

Wait. Did they say it is explicitly allowed or only that it isn't forbidden or even just not persecuted?
These distinctions are important.
They've said that there is nothing about ISBoxer (or indeed any other multiboxing software) that inherently breaks the EULA. They obviously can't allow any third-party software — not even stuff like EFT or EVEMon is “allowed” — because they have no control over what the developers put into those programs and they can't be arsed creating a vetting process.

So “not forbidden” is as good as it gets, and multiboxing fits very neatly into that category since it doesn't actually offer any automation or acceleration or any of the things the EULA forbids.


I could say the same about bots. Do bots get an accelerated yield that they can more than a normal player?
Lady Areola Fappington
#23 - 2014-07-01 13:42:35 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
[
Wait. Did they say it is explicitly allowed or only that it isn't forbidden or even just not persecuted?
These distinctions are important.



CCP uses the "not actively policed" corp doubletalk when talking about any third party program. Ask them about EVEmon, you'll get the same reply. It's because they have no control over third party devs. If they went around "approving" programs, then some third party dev changed things into a EULA violation, it'd cause issues.


If you want to be specific, CCP has stated that using ISBoxer in it's capability to control multiple game clients with a single screen/keyboard by mirroring command inputs is allowed.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#24 - 2014-07-01 13:42:44 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
I could say the same about bots. Do bots get an accelerated yield that they can more than a normal player?


Only thing that matters is what CCP says. Sooner you understand it happier you will be.

Invalid signature format
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#25 - 2014-07-01 13:44:24 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
That's nice. Now prove how any one of his individual characters is breaking the quoted section.

That's how CCP looks at that clause, it applies per character, and not per person behind keyboard.


Rubbish, the eula applies to the player.


Players do not accumulate in game items - characters do.


What a stupid argument. Characters are owned by players, therefore players accumulate wealth.


In game items are not tangible wealth of the kind that players can have, since you are forbidden from selling them IRL. Ergo, character wealth is all that is applicable to the discussion, and IS Boxer does not allow any single character to accumulate in game wealth at an accelerated pace when compared to normal game play.

The Ice doesn't magic itself into any single Mackinaw any faster just because the chap at the keyboard is using 40 of them.

Also, the big argument that everyone seems to be forgetting is that multiboxing software used to be bannable, back before the big ISBoxer debate of 2010 (or whenever). CCP specifically made a ruling that allows multiboxing software (and hardware).

I'm not sure what else there is to say on the matter, tbh.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-07-01 13:44:32 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
40 skiffs mining in an ice field in hi-sec, the belt lasts no more than 30 minutes if he is there. During this time I estimate he must get 40 ice per skiff, 40 skiffs. That's 1600 blocks of ice, at 320k per block that is 500 million isk that he earns from 30 minutes of play, in hi-sec.

Not only does he earn isk far faster than would be possible for him if he wasn't using a 3rd party program to send keystrokes to the clients, but he ruins the game for normal players.
What makes it impossible for 40 skiffs to do the exact same thing without the software? How is it accelerated? Do non-ISboxed skiffs somehow have a different yield so that it takes them 40 minutes to do the same job?

Abrazzar wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP said ISboxer is allowed.

/thread

Wait. Did they say it is explicitly allowed or only that it isn't forbidden or even just not persecuted?
These distinctions are important.
They've said that there is nothing about ISBoxer (or indeed any other multiboxing software) that inherently breaks the EULA. They obviously can't allow any third-party software — not even stuff like EFT or EVEMon is “allowed” — because they have no control over what the developers put into those programs and they can't be arsed creating a vetting process.

So “not forbidden” is as good as it gets, and multiboxing fits very neatly into that category since it doesn't actually offer any automation or acceleration or any of the things the EULA forbids.


I could say the same about bots. Do bots get an accelerated yield that they can more than a normal player?


No, you can't say the same about bots, because bots DO use client modification.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-07-01 13:44:38 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
I could say the same about bots. Do bots get an accelerated yield that they can more than a normal player?


Only thing that matters is what CCP says. Sooner you understand it happier you will be.


Not true at all. If too many players quit the game will close down, and what CCP say won't matter at all.
Solecist Project
#28 - 2014-07-01 13:44:45 UTC
When even CCP says it doesn't ...

... then how the freaking **** does this thread even make sense?????

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-07-01 13:45:35 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
I could say the same about bots. Do bots get an accelerated yield that they can more than a normal player?


Only thing that matters is what CCP says. Sooner you understand it happier you will be.


Not true at all. If too many players quit the game will close down, and what CCP say won't matter at all.


Really? You're going to pretend to care about CCP's subscriber base? Nothing new to see here folks, please move along.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#30 - 2014-07-01 13:46:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nidal Fervor wrote:
I could say the same about bots. Do bots get an accelerated yield that they can more than a normal player?
No, you can't because automation breaks a number of different parts of the EULA, including the one about ordinary gameplay. Automation lets you a non-human play 23.5/7 — replication does not.

So yes, a bot gets more stuff than can be acquired through ordinary gameplay. That's probably the smallest of their infractions.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-07-01 13:46:30 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
When even CCP says it doesn't ...

... then how the freaking **** does this thread even make sense?????


You look scarier than normal tonight. Did you have a bad date or something?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-07-01 13:46:49 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Not true at all. If too many players quit the game will close down, and what CCP say won't matter at all.
Are you planning to quit?

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#33 - 2014-07-01 13:46:55 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:

No, you can't say the same about bots, because bots DO use client modification.


Sending a keystroke automatically is client modification? No, yet it is botting and is bannable.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#34 - 2014-07-01 13:47:46 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Sending a keystroke automatically is client modification? No, yet it is botting and is bannable.

The way bots do, yes. And again, they break the EULA in many other ways too.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#35 - 2014-07-01 13:48:20 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
new and exciting opinions that have never been posted before
He's earning the same per character per hour as a group of players doing the same activity without ISBoxer. That's not at an accelerated rate.


And a bot earns the same per hour as a player doing the exact same activity, or perhaps even less. Yet botting is not allowed because it gives an unfair advantage over players who do not use botting programs.

Just as is the case with isboxer.
Bots can run 23/7 without stopping for food, sleep or bio breaks, which is why goldfamers use them. They're banned because they do give an unfair advantage.

ISBoxer, on the other hand, is still reliant on the user actually being there for it to do something.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-07-01 13:48:55 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Not true at all. If too many players quit the game will close down, and what CCP say won't matter at all.
Are you planning to quit?


Does it not occur to you? Normal people, who actually care about the experience, who never come to the forum at all, will have this 40 times unimatrix isboxer alts appear and wipe out their belt. Do you think this is a good experience of the game for them?
Lady Areola Fappington
#37 - 2014-07-01 13:49:03 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:
When even CCP says it doesn't ...

... then how the freaking **** does this thread even make sense?????



Some people think they can CCP better than CCP can.

Kind of like a CCCP, I think.

Sadly, this thread gets low Marx for being repetitive. We're all just Stalin waiting for the lock.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-07-01 13:49:30 UTC
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

No, you can't say the same about bots, because bots DO use client modification.


Sending a keystroke automatically is client modification? No, yet it is botting and is bannable.


CCP says it's not botting, numerous people with experience in scripting say it's not botting, and we've had this discussion a thousand times on these forums already. IF you think something is bannable, then file a petition. Why you people feel the need to fire up fresh threads of butthurt about isboxer every five minutes is beyond any sense of reasonable understanding.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-07-01 13:50:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Not true at all. If too many players quit the game will close down, and what CCP say won't matter at all.
Are you planning to quit?


Does it not occur to you? Normal people, who actually care about the experience, who never come to the forum at all, will have this 40 times unimatrix isboxer alts appear and wipe out their belt. Do you think this is a good experience of the game for them?


How to find other belts. Also, it's not your belt. Nothing is yours unless you can get it first, and keep it from getting blown up. They don't write our names on the sides of asteroids you know.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Nidal Fervor
Doomheim
#40 - 2014-07-01 13:51:54 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Nidal Fervor wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:

No, you can't say the same about bots, because bots DO use client modification.


Sending a keystroke automatically is client modification? No, yet it is botting and is bannable.


CCP says it's not botting, numerous people with experience in scripting say it's not botting, and we've had this discussion a thousand times on these forums already. IF you think something is bannable, then file a petition. Why you people feel the need to fire up fresh threads of butthurt about isboxer every five minutes is beyond any sense of reasonable understanding.


If there's so many threads complaining about it, obviously it is a problem.