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Plex prices

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#161 - 2014-06-30 02:03:41 UTC
polly papercut wrote:
Someone can use Google on how to debate. Cute. But you are still wrong

That someone certainly isn't you. You should probably try it, since that might give you an utterly minute chance of actually proving me wrong.

Not quite as minute as the relevance of your poll, though, but that's probably a good thing. Either way, the simple fact remains: your poll is meaningless, and as Ralph demonstrates, fails at even that most basic of purposes that you've scaled it back to. Right now, the only useful information that can be gleaned from it is that 24 respondents (as opaquely defined by the polling software) has answered your poll. From this we can conclude that









Oh.
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#162 - 2014-06-30 02:51:20 UTC
Tippia wrote:
polly papercut wrote:
Someone can use Google on how to debate. Cute. But you are still wrong

That someone certainly isn't you. You should probably try it, since that might give you an utterly minute chance of actually proving me wrong.

Not quite as minute as the relevance of your poll, though, but that's probably a good thing. Either way, the simple fact remains: your poll is meaningless, and as Ralph demonstrates, fails at even that most basic of purposes that you've scaled it back to. Right now, the only useful information that can be gleaned from it is that 24 respondents (as opaquely defined by the polling software) has answered your poll. From this we can conclude that









Oh.



Using your popularity you will get backers. How ever to say that there are no other people who have canceled accounts based as plex prices is hopeful at best. You can get as many of these people to agree with you as you like the fact of the matter is. You can still assume a large number of accounts have been canceled due to plex prices.


There is no way you are right in this matter say what you like use as many terms as you can find on google as you like you are still 110% wrong.
You could not be more wrong. I could give a **** who agrees with you they are doing so for two reasons.
One your name and two the love of EVE people are not willing to admit there are flaws with it.
Keep posting as you like you are wrong wrong and more wrong.
Accounts are being canceled because of plex prices bottom line and my poll has proven that.

Any reasonable person I have explained this to out side of the eve community have agreed with me.
I know in your mind I "will not win" and on these grounds on the EVE forums you are right how ever that doesn't prove me wrong.
Me making these arguments on these forums is like going into a church and telling everyone in it there is no god
I will not win. Even if those people can not prove there is a god with in that church I will never win the argument even if I am right. Except in this I have facts no matter how small even if it is only 25 people at this point I still have numbers backing me.

You on the other hand have nothing only your words and your 22k likes on the forums. You have nothing to back your statements while I have 25 votes. I have 25 times more facts than you . so keep it up you are wrong and you will always be wrong about this.
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#163 - 2014-06-30 03:19:26 UTC
Tippia wrote:
strawman fallacies

And that does not apply here. For a proper straw man fallacy the people here would have to be completely ignorant to the subject we are talking about. But seeing as how our argument is out in the open inside a post about the argument.
Then I would hope that they are not completely ignorant to the subject at hand.

You might want to Google a few more terms so that it might look like you actually know how to debate.
Get on my damn level.
Aramatheia
Tiffany and Co.
#164 - 2014-06-30 04:26:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Aramatheia
only thing wrong with the plex market is the ever increasing plex sinks, most of which dont really generate any benefit. aurum is plex turned in heels and dresses

multiple character training? so you have many pilots which you have to exit your client each time to log into, when for the same base plex you could have 2 accounts which can be logged on at the same time - kind of nullifies the point but i still think exiting the client to log into another character is useless, this isnt even remotely close to wow level of functionality, which has existed for 10 years

Ship skins and that sort of thing should have been added as isk/lp sinks, theres tons of isk everyone always cries on about how x player has too good a isk/hour and nerf this and nerf that. And such comments are met by finding new ways to strip plex? Is the goal to weed out as many possible in game market plex buyers?

People wont shift towards putting hundreds of dollars into sub costs just to plug the gaps if the plex market becomes to cost exclusive - thats probably why the plex thing was used so much, but now ppl who want to play spaceships are contesting with people who want more heels and dresses and painted hyperions, and fanfest tickets, and graphics cards (I am aware this was only a 1 off thing), and alts that demand client exit to log in/cant be played together
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#165 - 2014-06-30 04:48:04 UTC
polly papercut wrote:
Tippia wrote:
strawman fallacies

And that does not apply here. For a proper straw man fallacy the people here would have to be completely ignorant to the subject we are talking about. But seeing as how our argument is out in the open inside a post about the argument.
Then I would hope that they are not completely ignorant to the subject at hand.

You might want to Google a few more terms so that it might look like you actually know how to debate.
Get on my damn level.


Why would anyone want to come down to you're level? Besides that, pay attention - I'm only going over this once more. There is no debate, because your poll is just crap and gives you nothing relevant to debate with.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#166 - 2014-06-30 04:56:12 UTC
A good real life analogy for the Poll is this.



You live in a town where 12 people think dogs should be banned from Parks and the other 800 really do not care.

You conduct a poll by putting a notice up in the town mall and the people who are anti-dog all sign it, no-one else much bothers because they think the poll is stupid. You end up with 12 people wanting to ban dogs and 4 do not cares.

You then announce that as 75% of respondents to your poll want to ban dogs there must be several hundred people in town who are anti-dog.



Polls like this are often used in real life to deliberately distort statistics by Politicians, Religious groups and Marketing Companies for propaganda purposes ... but they have no statistical or scientific relevance.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#167 - 2014-06-30 05:19:37 UTC
By the end of the summer EVE is going F2P. PLEX's only use will be to get turned into aurum to buy pretty clothes. The bottom will fall out of PLEX prices, settling at 125mil per PLEX. This information is legit, my physic told me all this. So sell your PLEX now.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#168 - 2014-06-30 06:07:11 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Mario Putzo wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Meh, 1 half hour of work and it pays for my account. 1 day of work out of the 25 or so I work in a month lets me be filthy rich selling PLEX to no lifes who can't be assed to go out and get a job and would rather complain that it takes them 6-8 hours to grind out isk for a plex instead of working for an hour and just paying for the game.

Thanks for your ISK losers, get a job ya bums.


here you go you ignorant ***meh***.


Then don't play video games if you can't afford too.

Option A)
Suck it up and realize plex demand has driven the cost up, meaning you need to put in more effort to play for "free"

Option B)
Pay for the account in a normal manner with cash, or credit.

Stop being an entitled little **** and expecting that the environment change to include you. You adapt to the environment, just like in the real world. If you don't adapt you get left behind, just like the real world.

Whether you make $600 a month, or $2000 a month, the onus is on you to budget yourself accordingly, not on CCP, not on this community, and not on "ignorant" people like me.

If you can't afford it, you can't afford it....welcome to life and more often than not it isn't fair.


Dam you truly ARE AN IGNORANT ***** Big smile Where did i complain about high PLEX prices? My arguments was because of you silly argument "get a job ya bums." do you remember?

Thankfully my ingame isk earnings are high enough to afford to PLEX my account whenever it will cost 800m or 2B isk. But if some idiot calls me poor or jobless just because he cannot see life standards and conditions behind his nation borders i call it "great ignorance of first world countries".

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#169 - 2014-06-30 06:09:27 UTC
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
By the end of the summer EVE is going F2P. PLEX's only use will be to get turned into aurum to buy pretty clothes. The bottom will fall out of PLEX prices, settling at 125mil per PLEX. This information is legit, my physic told me all this. So sell your PLEX now.



Your physic ?
TharOkha
0asis Group
#170 - 2014-06-30 06:10:38 UTC
Arcelian wrote:

So... CCP should lower plex prices and cut into their profits because of the poor countries so individuals that make little income can play? Sorry, but that is a small minority of the eve player base, and not a reason to lower plex prices from a business stand point.


If you argument would be true ("Sorry, but that is a small minority of the eve player base") then PLEX prices wouldnt be so high dude Big smile

Please use verified data, not those sucked out of thin air Blink

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Slick Rick Gutierez
#171 - 2014-06-30 06:43:34 UTC
TharOkha wrote:

If you argument would be true ("Sorry, but that is a small minority of the eve player base") then PLEX prices wouldnt be so high dude Big smile


The problem with that argument being: people are paying that price in isk and, not that many weeks ago, more. There is no such thing as an objectively "high," price for something. There is the price it's being sought for and the price being asked, they meet in a transaction and that is the momentary price of the commodity in question.

If it were the case that the price was too high for most of the eve player base, the price wouldn't continue to rise, it would fall. Why? Because if you can't sell the PLEX it isn't doing you much good. PLEX seller Bob wants a bunch of isk, not that PLEX. Unless you mean to tell me that the vast majority of PLEX purchases with irl currency have been for the purpose of speculation and/or AUR conversion, which is incredibly far-fetched to say the least, then your argument serves only to present the case being made by your opposition. That is, most people can afford to PLEX with isk at this amount and more and the market history tab on PLEX bears that out.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#172 - 2014-06-30 06:50:55 UTC
Slick, given the number of times the plex changes hands on average before use, the majority of purchases are actually speculation.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#173 - 2014-06-30 06:51:35 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Lucy Ferrr wrote:
By the end of the summer EVE is going F2P. PLEX's only use will be to get turned into aurum to buy pretty clothes. The bottom will fall out of PLEX prices, settling at 125mil per PLEX. This information is legit, my physic told me all this. So sell your PLEX now.



Your physic ?


Really?

Psychic.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#174 - 2014-06-30 07:27:28 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
A good real life analogy for the Poll is this.



You live in a town where 12 people think dogs should be banned from Parks and the other 800 really do not care.

You conduct a poll by putting a notice up in the town mall and the people who are anti-dog all sign it, no-one else much bothers because they think the poll is stupid. You end up with 12 people wanting to ban dogs and 4 do not cares.

You then announce that as 75% of respondents to your poll want to ban dogs there must be several hundred people in town who are anti-dog.



Polls like this are often used in real life to deliberately distort statistics by Politicians, Religious groups and Marketing Companies for propaganda purposes ... but they have no statistical or scientific relevance.


That is incorrect again you are suggesting a poll based on the likes or dislikes of dogs.
My poll simply asked if you have canceled any account(s) based off from plex prices alone.
This has nothing to do with people who do or do not care about plex prices.

And even if we did consider your hypothetical dog poll there are several flaws and how they are different from my poll

1. in your poll again is based on likes or dislikes of dogs.
1A. The question would be more along the lines of do you have a dog. IE did you cancel an account. Also the people who have kept accounts are not relevant here.
The purpose is to find out if accounts are being canceled due to plex prices.
2. You imply that you reached all 800 residents of said town

2A. With my poll this thread has 3000 views including multiples and 172 replies so let's split the difference and call it 1,500 unique views chances are it is far lower. So moving on at EVEs peak it had 500,000 active accounts we will split the difference again and lets call it 300,000 unique players and 200k are alts.

So now we have a possible 300,000 people to reach out to but my poll has only been seen by the eyes of 1,500 (again it is most likely closer to 3-400 but i am giving you the benefit of the doubt) So my poll as been seen by 1/2 of a percent of eves population. That is a huge difference from all 800 of your townies seeing your poll. Actual numbers are closer to 1/4 of a percent.

So again our of 300,000 there are 25 people who responded it has only been seen by less then 1% of the eve population
There are 50 accounts canceled based on poll results. We have one admitted person trying to set the poll up for failure so let's split the difference again and call it only 25 canceled accounts.

So what my point is that if I have only reached 1/2 of a percent of the EVE population and we have 25 canceled accounts
It is extremely safe to say that there are several more accounts that have been canceled because of plex prices being to high.

The problem with you and Tippia and everyone else around here is you are suggesting That out of 300,000 people or 1/2 of a percent of the EVE population I have managed to reach every last person who has canceled an account based on plex prices.
I suggest everyone who is trying to argue that there are no other people probably thousands of canceled accounts
do some research on laws of probability as well as causality (cause and effect) Cause high plex prices effect canceled accounts.

To simply suggest I have managed to reach every last person who has canceled due to plex is totally insane.
I know no one on the EVE forums will agree and you do not have to. Again I have numbers even at the smallest amount I have them in my favor and you do not.
You guys are 100% wrong in this matter any rational person would agree but again making these statements on these forums would be like going to the Vatican and trying to convince people there is no god.

The forums for the most part is a place of worship for eve online players to continue living the life of EVE even when they are not in game. They use there work computers phones tablets or what ever means to stay connected to a game they love and worship. I do not expect anyone to be rational here but until you come up with some numbers to prove me wrong.
Well I am right.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#175 - 2014-06-30 07:51:59 UTC
polly papercut wrote:
Using your popularity you will get backers. How ever to say that there are no other people who have canceled accounts based as plex prices is hopeful at best. You can get as many of these people to agree with you as you like the fact of the matter is. You can still assume a large number of accounts have been canceled due to plex prices.
You can assume anything you like. The problem is that your assumption has no basis, especially not in your poll. The sample size is too small to have any meaning; the answers given contain errors; and the selection process and polling method is heavily biased.

Quote:
There is no way you are right in this matter say what you like use as many terms as you can find on google as you like you are still 110% wrong.
Prove it.
Please demonstrate why your poll is exempt from how statistics works. Please demonstrate why and how self-selection bias is not a problem. Please demonstrate how your minute-n “tally” is not affected by people not giving truthful answers. Please demonstrate how it tells us anything other than how many votes have been collected.

Your poll does not prove a thing except that people have answered your poll. This tells us nothing.

Quote:
And that does not apply here. For a proper straw man fallacy the people here would have to be completely ignorant to the subject we are talking about.
No, that is not a prerequisite for your assertions being strawmen. All that is needed is for you to attribute any kind of argument to someone else, even though they never said anything of the kind, and then argue against that rather than what they actually said. Kind of like…
Quote:
You could not be more wrong. I could give a **** who agrees with you they are doing so for two reasons.
One your name and two the love of EVE people are not willing to admit there are flaws with it.
…this particular strawman fallacy (with a bit of ad hominem thrown in for good measure). As long as you keep relying on these fallacies rather than on actual argumentation, you will never be right. What you're saying here is that you ignore what I'm saying because you have no idea what I'm saying. This is not a sound foundation to build your stance on.

Quote:
The problem with you and Tippia and everyone else around here is you are suggesting That out of 300,000 people or 1/2 of a percent of the EVE population I have managed to reach every last person who has canceled an account based on plex prices.
No, that's just some silly strawman you've invented. None of us are suggesting that. We are simply saying that your 0.005% sample size is too small to say anything about the population, and that your method fails as a tally since it contains so many errors in relation to its size.

The numbers that prove you wrong have already been provided. They require a tiny bit of understanding of statistics, however, and thus you've failed to grasp the meaning of them.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#176 - 2014-06-30 07:57:07 UTC
polly papercut wrote:
That is incorrect again you are suggesting a poll based on the likes or dislikes of dogs.
My poll simply asked if you have canceled any account(s) based off from plex prices alone.
This has nothing to do with people who do or do not care about plex prices.
Yes it has. It's called self-selection bias, and it is the first of many flaws with your poll.

Quote:
To simply suggest I have managed to reach every last person who has canceled due to plex is totally insane.
…which is why the only one suggesting anything of the kind is you. The rest of us are saying that your sample size and your selection bias makes your data useless for any kind of generalisation — it can only demonstrate itself, but as Ralph shows, it will fail at even that humble task due to the errors introduced.

Quote:
I know no one on the EVE forums will agree and you do not have to. Again I have numbers even at the smallest amount I have them in my favor and you do not.
Just one problem: the numbers are too small and too inaccurate to do you any favours. You can keep claiming that we are wrong, but simply saying it doesn't make it so. You have to actually show it, and unfortunately, you can't — you simply don't understand the topic well enough.
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#177 - 2014-06-30 08:22:27 UTC  |  Edited by: polly papercut
Tippia wrote:
stuff and things.

Until you come up with numbers of your own. I am still right.
You do nothing to prove your case.
The only thing you are doing is trying to do is cast doubts on me and what I have said.
Every reply you have come up with has been a direct attack on me and the poll.

You have provided no proofs that I am wrong you have only attempted to cast doubt on it.
You not only do not understand how straw man fallacy works you are also a hypocrite as you are attempting it your self.
You are misrepresented my argument the only problem is my argument is right here for people to read.

See how straw man works is I go about telling people that you made a statement about something for the straw man fallacy to work the person or people would have to be ignorant to your side of the argument.
You sit and use words you do not even understand and accuse me of doing the things you are doing.

And the way Ad Hominem works is and you are extremely guilty of this one.
I make one statement
you reply back well polly is a big stupid head
there for my statement is invalid.

I have provided numbers and reasons.

Tippia wrote:
…but the assumption is meaningless because we have no way of telling how much larger it is (or, indeed, if it is larger at all).
.
Here you are saying that the number of canceled subs has the potential to be no larger than what was given in the poll.

Tippia wrote:

You can drag out as many ad hominmen or strawman fallacies you like, .
accusations to make me look bad aka ad hominmen

Tippia wrote:
if anything even more meaningless since it you can't even relate that number to anything relevant..

Tippia wrote:
you simply don't understand the topic well enough.
again more attacks.

I could keep going but frankly you are no longer worth my time. You simply like to try to argue until such a time that you can come to be with actual numbers and PROVE to me that no other accounts have been canceled due to plex prices anything you say it meaningless.

So again my proposal to you here is that you go out and prove to me that no other accounts have been canceled because of plex prices. If you can provide actual numbers and proof of this then I will withdraw my argument.
Also you might want to learn a bit about the burden of proof.

One simple rule and there is a lot more is that
It is a fallacy to claim that X exists unless you prove that there is no X
So no matter how small the sample size it could be just one person I have proven that accounts have been canceled due to plex prices. It is now your job to come to me with proof that I am the only person to do so.

With that I will leave you with
You lost get over it. Learn how to debate and come back an other year.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#178 - 2014-06-30 08:30:21 UTC
I thought the burden of proof was on the person who presents a theory to prove it correct or disprove it themselves

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#179 - 2014-06-30 08:34:00 UTC
Quote:
You have provided no proofs that I am wrong

True, I did that by lying on the pole.
As Ramona correctly pointed out, the burden if proof still lies with you.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
polly papercut
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#180 - 2014-06-30 08:38:40 UTC  |  Edited by: polly papercut
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Quote:
You have provided no proofs that I am wrong

True, I did that by lying on the pole.
As Ramona correctly pointed out, the burden if proof still lies with you.


I have already proven that accounts have been canceled due to plex prices.
My self and some RL friends have canceled accounts because of it.
Now due to the laws of probability that would suggest there are more people who have canceled because of plex prices.

You guys are looking rather stupid to sit and assume we are the only ones to do so.
And I also took into account the lying on the poll in an other post.
You are suggesting that there are no more people to have canceled accounts because of plex prices.

There for the burden of proof is right solid on your shoulders.
I would say quit while your ahead of you are not ahead . So either quit or come up with some proof that no one else has canceled because of plex price.