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sick and tired of null bots

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Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#161 - 2014-06-30 01:11:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
JITAALT808 wrote:
its almost like they have an intel channel or possibly a cloaked alt watching the gate on the far side

You can have all the cloaked alts you want, but Luminous Spirit mentioned she used wormholes. Unless they are all putting an alt in the connected wormholes too, cloaked alts won't give you that intel.

Using wormholes reduces the effectiveness of intel channels too.

LS seems to have a lot of experience with this and has clearly noticed a change in something. Bots might not be the right conclusion, but there also has to be some doubt that people ratting have all wised up at the same time, though if they are watching d-scan, a combat probe is a sure sign to gtfo.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#162 - 2014-06-30 01:14:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Mallak Azaria
Scipio Artelius wrote:
JITAALT808 wrote:
its almost like they have an intel channel or possibly a cloaked alt watching the gate on the far side

You can have all the cloaked alts you want, but Luminous Spirit mentioned she used wormholes. Unless they are all putting an alt in the connected wormholes too, cloaked alts won't give you that intel.

Using wormholes reduces the effectiveness of intel channels too.

LS seems to have a lot of experience with this and has clearly noticed a change in something. Bots might not be the right conclusion, but there also has to be some doubt that people ratting have all wised up at the same time, though if they are watching d-scan, a combat probe is a sure sign to gtfo.


PEOPLE HAVE ADAPTED TO MY STRATEGY CCP NERF ADAPTING SO I CAN GET KILLS AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
Also everyone is obviously a bot because I am smart look no one is disagreeing with me because I blocked them.

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#163 - 2014-06-30 01:15:02 UTC
Arcelian wrote:
Hmm, but the convo I got said the whole family plays the account, spread among several people, could well exceed 164.5 hours straight.
…at which point it is no longer a player, and CCP would detect that and ban the account for any number of reasons.

Quote:
you gotta stop using variables so much.
No. You just have to learn some basic logic, especially if you want to discuss matters of logic.

Quote:
What you ARE saying is that any perceived tendency of a bot, is wrong, because it could be that of a human.
No, that's entirely your opinion, again based on your flawed binary thinking. What I am saying is that, in the case of a given effect that has multiple causes, you can't determine the cause by just looking at the effect. You could conceivably say something based on the lack of an effect, but that is not what you're doing. You're engaging in the standard converse error.

Quote:
I grow tired of this. You can never affirm that it is cause B. Ever. Basically what you are saying is that you can NEVER be sure that what you are seeing is the work of a bot.
No, that's still something you are saying, not me. You can repeat that strawman as often as you like, but it will never cease to be anything other than your (fallacious) logic, and yours alone. It has nothing to do with me.

And yes, you can prove that it is cause B, but not by just looking at consequent A — that's where you keep going wrong.
Marsha Mallow
#164 - 2014-06-30 01:22:00 UTC
Falin Whalen wrote:
Why should we tell you, how to kill us? Plenty of others can, so the OP, if he's smart, should be able to figure it out. If he can't, then, it sucks to be him.

Nah, I'm just curious as to the validity of forum warriors using alts to post and claiming expertise on anything other than foruming. I'd particularly like to see their killboards.

Saisin, the OP derailed their own thread when they started nerdraging and GD meltdowns are entertaining. If you'd like to create your own thread, do so. I'd be interested in viewing your killboard in k-space to demonstrate some genuine knowledge of gameplay. As opposed to pushing what appears to be a rather flimsy agenda to change local by supporting every rager who mentions it, then being shouted down.

What Scipio said above can also be applied to bots, just by changing their behaviour to alert them to WHs. It's not unreasonable to mention this if you see it, the bot team do target wider anomalous behaviour changes as as well as individuals/groups afaik. Petitioning should always be the first option but mentioning on the forums alerts other people to pay attention to what might be an updated macro.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#165 - 2014-06-30 01:27:29 UTC
Marsha Mallow wrote:
Falin Whalen wrote:
Why should we tell you, how to kill us? Plenty of others can, so the OP, if he's smart, should be able to figure it out. If he can't, then, it sucks to be him.

Nah, I'm just curious as to the validity of forum warriors using alts to post and claiming expertise on anything other than foruming. I'd particularly like to see their killboards.


Having an awesome looking green killboard doesn't neccessarily mean that the person in question knows anything about game mechanics or this anomaly known as 'people working together' & vice versa.

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Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#166 - 2014-06-30 01:32:06 UTC
Responding directly to the OP.

If you want 0.0 null sec kills from ratting alts here go a couple of things I have found to work:
1. Be aware that any afker in a pos/station/cloaked in space can report your presence to the active players next in any channel they wish to.. Attentive players will be in warp when you arrive 1, 2 or even 3 jumps out depending on the nature of the pipe they reside in. To counter this, pass through target pipes with a newbie alt a few times at different times of the day and figure where the "empty" systems are. Make a bookmark close to a target system gate and hand over to your ganking alt. Fly ganking alt out at quietest time of the day and log off in empty system closest to target system.

2. When entering system the only reason to hold cloak is to ensure the gate is clear a d-scan at 1 au should tell you if you're about to get jumped.

3. Don't bother probing. That malaky is for WH space, gang pvp and fleets. Warp to the highest ranked cosmic anomaly immediately. Should have already been covered in this thread - Sanctums > Havens > Hub > Port. Run a narrow (<15 deg) d-scan while in warp to anomaly. Run a narrow d-scan on station while in same warp

4. If there are wrecks and rats in the anomaly when you land warp immediately to the station in system. 0.0 folk often rat in fat lumbering BS and Carriers that can not match the speed you should have.

5. Scan down any Jump Bridges while you are in local. If you see any activity which leads you suspect they might be trying to trap you drop a bubble in line between the gate and jumpbridge - better in a small gang.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#167 - 2014-06-30 01:39:44 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Responding directly to the OP.

If you want 0.0 null sec kills from ratting alts here go a couple of things I have found to work:
1. Be aware that any afker in a pos/station/cloaked in space can report your presence to the active players next in any channel they wish to.. Attentive players will be in warp when you arrive 1, 2 or even 3 jumps out depending on the nature of the pipe they reside in. To counter this, pass through target pipes with a newbie alt a few times at different times of the day and figure where the "empty" systems are. Make a bookmark close to a target system gate and hand over to your ganking alt. Fly ganking alt out at quietest time of the day and log off in empty system closest to target system.

2. When entering system the only reason to hold cloak is to ensure the gate is clear a d-scan at 1 au should tell you if you're about to get jumped.

3. Don't bother probing. That malaky is for WH space, gang pvp and fleets. Warp to the highest ranked cosmic anomaly immediately. Should have already been covered in this thread - Sanctums > Havens > Hub > Port. Run a narrow (<15 deg) d-scan while in warp to anomaly. Run a narrow d-scan on station while in same warp

4. If there are wrecks and rats in the anomaly when you land warp immediately to the station in system. 0.0 folk often rat in fat lumbering BS and Carriers that can not match the speed you should have.

5. Scan down any Jump Bridges while you are in local. If you see any activity which leads you suspect they might be trying to trap you drop a bubble in line between the gate and jumpbridge - better in a small gang.


Sanctums are crap fyi

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Cancel Align NOW
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#168 - 2014-06-30 01:47:14 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:


Sanctums are crap fyi



If by crap you mean give lower isk per minute than Forsaken Hubs, yes you are right. But those anomalies tend to get run by pilots in Ishtars and Zealots etc where as the easy fruit the OP is looking for such as Baby BS pilots tend to congregate in the Sanctums cause CCP said they were the best.

Thank you for your thoughtful contribution though.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#169 - 2014-06-30 02:01:44 UTC
Cancel Align NOW wrote:
Responding directly to the OP.

If you want 0.0 null sec kills from ratting alts here go a couple of things I have found to work:
1. Be aware that any afker in a pos/station/cloaked in space can report your presence to the active players next in any channel they wish to.. Attentive players will be in warp when you arrive 1, 2 or even 3 jumps out depending on the nature of the pipe they reside in. To counter this, pass through target pipes with a newbie alt a few times at different times of the day and figure where the "empty" systems are. Make a bookmark close to a target system gate and hand over to your ganking alt. Fly ganking alt out at quietest time of the day and log off in empty system closest to target system.

2. When entering system the only reason to hold cloak is to ensure the gate is clear a d-scan at 1 au should tell you if you're about to get jumped.

3. Don't bother probing. That malaky is for WH space, gang pvp and fleets. Warp to the highest ranked cosmic anomaly immediately. Should have already been covered in this thread - Sanctums > Havens > Hub > Port. Run a narrow (<15 deg) d-scan while in warp to anomaly. Run a narrow d-scan on station while in same warp

4. If there are wrecks and rats in the anomaly when you land warp immediately to the station in system. 0.0 folk often rat in fat lumbering BS and Carriers that can not match the speed you should have.

5. Scan down any Jump Bridges while you are in local. If you see any activity which leads you suspect they might be trying to trap you drop a bubble in line between the gate and jumpbridge - better in a small gang.


i appreciate the write-up. i do all that and more of course, but even with everything done right, the equation is heavily tilted towards the ratter.

ratter gets instant passive intel fed to him via visual queues - the local list. he doesnt have to do ANYTHING. not even hit D-scan. I enter local - immediate warp. and short of setting elaborate traps on his POS, there is nothing that can be done.

and this is the problem. people in null-sec should not be invulnerable to small-scale pew pew that does not involve ****-caging a pos for 3 days.
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#170 - 2014-06-30 02:03:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Romanov
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Having an awesome looking green killboard doesn't neccessarily mean that the person in question knows anything about game mechanics or this anomaly known as 'people working together' & vice versa.


You mean because I was at B-R and got on half a dozen super kills in my harpy, thus ensuring a green killboard basically forever, I'm not actually an elite PEEVEEPEER? damn.

To the OP: sounds to me you are using tactics that work in WHs, but not in null. Get a few friends in fast tackle and try blitzing the more valuable hubs directly (don't bother to scan; they keep seeing you coming) and you may have more success. If what you currently do isn't yielding results, then its time to try something else (also, if you've got buddies and know where the POS are, try dropping bubbles between the POS and anomaly. You might chase them right into your loving embrace. I know some black ops guys who enjoy great success that way).

Edit: OK just read your last post. Sorry I wasted my time. Just another WHer looking to nerf local.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Nonay
Ordo Carnifex
#171 - 2014-06-30 02:05:50 UTC
quote]

your real issue seems to be reading the part where i say i drop out of fresh wormholes on top of you, with no prior intel warning.[/quote]

Maybe not all bots, the WH may be only fresh from your side. Have you considered that they may know you are in system before you drop your probes, we were in a WH for what seems like forever and our security practices carried over, if we are going to rat a system the first thing that we will do is scan it, if there is a WH we position a cloaked alt near it so one of us can hear if it activates, if there are enough of us we will do it at the gates as well, mostly we use the low cost cyno alts we used to get to system for this purpose. It works for us, gate activates were gone P
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#172 - 2014-06-30 02:07:57 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:
and this is the problem. people in null-sec should not be invulnerable to small-scale pew pew that does not involve ****-caging a pos for 3 days.

Good news: they're not, as any killboard will attest.
Adira Nictor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#173 - 2014-06-30 02:26:25 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:


and this is the problem. people in null-sec should not be invulnerable to small-scale pew pew that does not involve ****-caging a pos for 3 days.



Wait, which is it? Players have it to easy in null, or bots do? When did you admit that its not bots who are out smarting you?
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#174 - 2014-06-30 02:28:16 UTC
LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:

and this is the problem. people in null-sec should not be invulnerable to small-scale pew pew that does not involve ****-caging a pos for 3 days.


They're not.

But they definitely are if someone is stupid enough to drop probes on short scan.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#175 - 2014-06-30 03:07:46 UTC
Infinity, is that you??

*looks at Op*

I almost didn't recognize you without your trained attack dogs.

Ugh

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#176 - 2014-06-30 03:15:52 UTC
Belt Scout wrote:
Infinity, is that you??

*looks at Op*

I almost didn't recognize you without your trained attack dogs.

Ugh



I thought the exact same thing, because everytime Infinity made a thread requesting a change, it was for some myopic/short sighted selfish reason revolving around some difficulty in killing ships.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#177 - 2014-06-30 03:17:41 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
Infinity, is that you??

*looks at Op*

I almost didn't recognize you without your trained attack dogs.

Ugh



I thought the exact same thing, because everytime Infinity made a thread requesting a change, it was for some myopic/short sighted selfish reason revolving around some difficulty in killing ships.


Ahh, sweet sweet memories of trained attack dogs riding beefed up scooters wearing wife beaters.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Belt Scout
Thread Lockaholics Anonymous
#178 - 2014-06-30 03:20:30 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Belt Scout wrote:
Infinity, is that you??

*looks at Op*

I almost didn't recognize you without your trained attack dogs.

Ugh



I thought the exact same thing, because everytime Infinity made a thread requesting a change, it was for some myopic/short sighted selfish reason revolving around some difficulty in killing ships.


Ahh, sweet sweet memories of trained attack dogs riding beefed up scooters wearing wife beaters.


Yep. I remember laughing myself to tears at 4am during that beauty. Big smileBig smile

They say most of your brain shuts down on the EvE forums. All but the impatient side, and the sarcastic side. No wonder I'm still awake.

**This IS my main so STFU.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#179 - 2014-06-30 03:40:04 UTC
all-right I give up.

i will go roll my static to see if some pew can be gotten in our chain.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#180 - 2014-06-30 03:53:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
But they definitely are if someone is stupid enough to drop probes on short scan.

Probes will always be on short scan at some point. They have to be in order to get the position.

4 seconds to get the warp in implies a level of discrimination first. D-scanning to isolate the general location and then repositioning the probes to obtain the final warp in point. Most people competent in the use of combat probes know to drop them and get them way off scan range first. You dont just drop them, scan a system and get the position in 4 seconds without doing it right.

Someone smart enough to be managing their safety will be able to get away in time.