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Keep neutral logi out of wars
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#1 - 2014-06-29 11:06:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Keep neutral logi out of wars along with command ships/ warfare links in general....
allies should require a merc contract too join a war ... with a standard fee of 100mil and potentially scalable including bonuses etc...

free allies who join every war possible is annoying
neutral logi alts are annoying and should not be allowed too interfere in a sanctioned war
disallow neutral warfare links.. it just makes sense removing an untouchable no risk very strong bonus

edit
- i also think the amount of wars a corp/alliance can be in should be limited to say 5 .. it used too be 3 .. a little too limited but now many griefer like corps just dec everyone they see and then use neutral logi alts too win fights .. this is just lame that CCP allow this sort of practice too happen..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#2 - 2014-06-29 11:22:34 UTC
Harvey James wrote:

neutral logi alts are annoying and should be allowed too interfere in a sanctioned war

You're bad at this words thing.

I don't like them, but you didn't put forward anything to deal with them. I like the idea of a killright being given if the person they rep kills someone.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#3 - 2014-06-29 11:32:41 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
Harvey James wrote:

neutral logi alts are annoying and should be allowed too interfere in a sanctioned war

You're bad at this words thing.

I don't like them, but you didn't put forward anything to deal with them. I like the idea of a killright being given if the person they rep kills someone.


ah you caught a typo there .. i have corrected it ... make the consequences the same as for shooting a neutral would be fair i think ,,,

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#4 - 2014-06-29 11:47:28 UTC
i second this, i live in null so it doesn't hit me but it is wrong and there is absolutely nothing that can defend this tactics. it takes away a lot of factors that you just cant know untill it is too late.

a neutral someone sits in safespot with a commandship giving huge boost to 1 or more WTs and on top of that a fleet of logi warps in and reps the WTs so a fight that should be easy to win goes to a sure loss without a way too anticipate.

its wrong and needs fixing.

off grid boost is an issue on its own, don't know how to fix that without breaking the rest
neutral logi should be concorded if they rep someone involved in war if they are not in corp/alliance

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#5 - 2014-06-29 12:08:49 UTC
Links are broken, I agree. Unlike anything else in the game, they can be a powerful force multiplier without having to be on grid to do it.

If I recall from one of Mynnna's blog posts, they want to put links on grid only, but they are reworking some base code before they can take a crack at it.

As for logi, I'll tell you what I told last week's thread.

You didn't used to be able to shoot neutral logi. Now you can because they get flagged for doing it.

Just shoot them. Yes, it really is that easy.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#6 - 2014-06-29 12:11:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Harvey James
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Links are broken, I agree. Unlike anything else in the game, they can be a powerful force multiplier without having to be on grid to do it.

If I recall from one of Mynnna's blog posts, they want to put links on grid only, but they are reworking some base code before they can take a crack at it.

As for logi, I'll tell you what I told last week's thread.

You didn't used to be able to shoot neutral logi. Now you can because they get flagged for doing it.

Just shoot them. Yes, it really is that easy.



i know from experience a neutral logi alt is killable now ... but the main issue is you don't know whether you're well thought out traps/plans will actually work because they can just bring a ton of logis to the fight .... and trying too stop 2 logis when you haven't planned for them or even if you do is very difficult too say the least ..

but it just isn't right that they can interfere in a sanctioned war when they choose.. without warning .. with very little risk as a result

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#7 - 2014-06-29 12:21:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ellendras Silver
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Links are broken, I agree. Unlike anything else in the game, they can be a powerful force multiplier without having to be on grid to do it.

If I recall from one of Mynnna's blog posts, they want to put links on grid only, but they are reworking some base code before they can take a crack at it.

As for logi, I'll tell you what I told last week's thread.

You didn't used to be able to shoot neutral logi. Now you can because they get flagged for doing it.

Just shoot them. Yes, it really is that easy.


No you are wrong i will explain why with an virtual made up example:
group A is being wardecked and has 5 HACs in the system
group B has 3 hacks and 2 interceptors

group A should win this without too much trouble but if 3 logi would land on top of that and there is a neut god knows where giving the logi huge boost in repping power and HP and the 3 hacs and 2 ceptors get the same boost they will be crushed without one loss on the side of group B and this is exactly the reason why people use this broken mechanic and since you are here defending it make me think you are on group B

that you can shoot the logi doesnt change jack sh*t

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#8 - 2014-06-29 13:37:51 UTC
Your corp spends it's time ganking carebears in high sec. Neutral logi, allies and off-grid boosting should be your meat and potatoes. If the carebears are doing it and shutting you down, good for them. Turns out they're better at PvP than you. If you're here crying because you got stuck in the booster ship and that's why you haven't been on any of the killmails in the last month, switch corps.

Nothing wrong with neutral logi, you just need better scouts. Off-grid boosting is a problem but not in the playground of high-sec wardeccing. Allies are never a problem, your diplomat should be using that mechanic to get in on some free war targets, and maybe when your corp can do better than the occasional navy drake or harbinger being flown by a 2 week old pilot, you can start to charge isk for your services.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Sublime Rage
Black Rabbits
Black Rabbit.
#9 - 2014-06-29 13:44:37 UTC
Note: This is features and ideas forum thread, not bitching and complaining . for that you need to go to crime and punishment
Edwin McAlister
Empire Hooligans
#10 - 2014-06-29 14:00:25 UTC
just have any and all neutral's that support an illegal war get flagged as criminal for 48 hours.
Hairpins Blueprint
The Northerners
Pandemic Horde
#11 - 2014-06-29 14:01:25 UTC
neutral logis should be concorded in hi sec, same as you use smart bombs etc.

BooM much more fair pvp in hi sec .... those neut logis .... man
Dhaq
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-06-29 14:03:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Dhaq
Ok, well give players a way to avoid being war dec by any corp and we'll talk about not allowing other people to mess up your plans. I believe the response to the carebear corps when they whine about the current mechanics is HTFU and adapt.

Maybe parties should have to agree in enter into this ((war)) aka one sided station camp.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#13 - 2014-06-29 14:04:58 UTC
If your "well thought-out plan" didn't account for the possibility of two neutral logis and include a way to stop them, it wasn't very well thought-out at all.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#14 - 2014-06-29 14:10:52 UTC
Dhaq wrote:
Ok, well give players a way to avoid being war dec by any corp and we'll talk about not allowing other people to mess up your plans. I believe the response to the carebear corps when they whine about the current mechanics is HTFU and adapt.

Maybe parties should have to agree in enter into this ((war)) aka one sided station camp.



Or the CEO can just browse around a bit and find a high sec corp 3 or 4 times the size of the aggressor that has a killboard showing a history of enjoying fighting in high sec and send them a mail.

"Hey, ya want some free War Targets?"

Nobody said the carebears had to be the ones getting station camped.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Dhaq
Doomheim
#15 - 2014-06-29 14:37:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Dhaq
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Dhaq wrote:
Ok, well give players a way to avoid being war dec by any corp and we'll talk about not allowing other people to mess up your plans. I believe the response to the carebear corps when they whine about the current mechanics is HTFU and adapt.

Maybe parties should have to agree in enter into this ((war)) aka one sided station camp.



Or the CEO can just browse around a bit and find a high sec corp 3 or 4 times the size of the aggressor that has a killboard showing a history of enjoying fighting in high sec and send them a mail.

"Hey, ya want some free War Targets?"

Nobody said the carebears had to be the ones getting station camped.


Or they can just bring neutral logi :)

I'm not disagreeing with you. That's what they should do. It's just funny to see war dec corp tears when that is normally what they try to get from others.

The whole dec system is completely out of whack though. Normally these aren't legitimate wars, they are borderline griefing attempts. And why is it so cheap. Why is it that I can indefinitely dec a small corp for virtually nothing? Shouldn't the cost increase each time the war is renewed?
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#16 - 2014-06-29 16:28:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Ellendras Silver wrote:
i second this, i live in null so it doesn't hit me but it is wrong and there is absolutely nothing that can defend this tactics. it takes away a lot of factors that you just cant know untill it is too late.

a neutral someone sits in safespot with a commandship giving huge boost to 1 or more WTs and on top of that a fleet of logi warps in and reps the WTs so a fight that should be easy to win goes to a sure loss without a way too anticipate.


u mean like a cyno? or waiting one jump out? or a multi boxed skiff fleet?

Harvey James wrote:



i know from experience a neutral logi alt is killable now ... but the main issue is you don't know whether you're well thought out traps/plans will actually work because they can just bring a ton of logis to the fight


Not knowing whether a fight will go ur way or not is a problem? i thought that was just EVE.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2014-06-29 16:37:22 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
Keep neutral logi out of wars along with command ships/ warfare links in general....
allies should require a merc contract too join a war ... with a standard fee of 100mil and potentially scalable including bonuses etc...

free allies who join every war possible is annoying
neutral logi alts are annoying and should not be allowed too interfere in a sanctioned war
disallow neutral warfare links.. it just makes sense removing an untouchable no risk very strong bonus

edit
- i also think the amount of wars a corp/alliance can be in should be limited to say 5 .. it used too be 3 .. a little too limited but now many griefer like corps just dec everyone they see and then use neutral logi alts too win fights .. this is just lame that CCP allow this sort of practice too happen..



breaks wars, breaks allies, breaks incursions. Well done! Roll
Ellendras Silver
CrashCat Corporation
#18 - 2014-06-29 16:45:04 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
[quote=Ellendras Silver]i second this, i live in null so it doesn't hit me but it is wrong and there is absolutely nothing that can defend this tactics. it takes away a lot of factors that you just cant know untill it is too late.

a neutral someone sits in safespot with a commandship giving huge boost to 1 or more WTs and on top of that a fleet of logi warps in and reps the WTs so a fight that should be easy to win goes to a sure loss without a way too anticipate.


u mean like a cyno? or waiting one jump out? or a multi boxed skiff fleet?

[quote=Harvey James]

no i meant what i posted, and i haven't mentioned a cyno did i? so take a deep breath, read my post again and then reply with something use full if not better not post at all.

to clarify WTs that are 1 jump out can be spotted with scout cyno is not possible in high sec and if you are in low sec or null it doesn't matter anyway. but people that are in a different corp to be stealthy and even cant be seen in local as hostile is wrong period.

all this mechanic will do is make high sec wardecking less fun and motivating people to stay in station instead of fight. and if you need this mechanic to kill some PVE pilots all i can say its sad legal but sad. I wont say i am a professional PVP player but i would not get anything out of a fight like that

[u]Carpe noctem[/u]
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#19 - 2014-06-29 16:58:10 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
[quote=Ellendras Silver]i second this, i live in null so it doesn't hit me but it is wrong and there is absolutely nothing that can defend this tactics. it takes away a lot of factors that you just cant know untill it is too late.

a neutral someone sits in safespot with a commandship giving huge boost to 1 or more WTs and on top of that a fleet of logi warps in and reps the WTs so a fight that should be easy to win goes to a sure loss without a way too anticipate.


u mean like a cyno? or waiting one jump out? or a multi boxed skiff fleet?

[quote=Harvey James]

no i meant what i posted, and i haven't mentioned a cyno did i? so take a deep breath, read my post again and then reply with something use full if not better not post at all.

to clarify WTs that are 1 jump out can be spotted with scout cyno is not possible in high sec and if you are in low sec or null it doesn't matter anyway. but people that are in a different corp to be stealthy and even cant be seen in local as hostile is wrong period.

all this mechanic will do is make high sec wardecking less fun and motivating people to stay in station instead of fight. and if you need this mechanic to kill some PVE pilots all i can say its sad legal but sad. I wont say i am a professional PVP player but i would not get anything out of a fight like that



Neutrals are pretty easy to pick out of local and follow once you know how to pull them.

A neutral isn't much use 3 or 4 jumps away. Keep a list of people and corps you see in local before you start baiting, bait the hostiles for 2 or 3 systems and keep them warping to celestials while you double-check names and info, and then double back and check again to make sure you didn't miss any potentials. Cross-checking everything and then a little browsing of killmails will give you a pretty accurate list of the neutrals, if there are any, and then you can plan accordingly.

There's a bit more to it than that such as knowing how to spot obvious neutrals based upon the character/corp info, D-scanning the gate as people come in, watch lists, etc... But once you learn the first couple tricks the rest of it falls into place.

If you marked too many people down as neutrals? Oh well, means you will have more than enough people ready for the fight.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#20 - 2014-06-29 17:41:13 UTC
Ellendras Silver wrote:


no i meant what i posted, and i haven't mentioned a cyno did i? so take a deep breath, read my post again and then reply with something use full if not better not post at all.

to clarify WTs that are 1 jump out can be spotted with scout cyno is not possible in high sec and if you are in low sec or null it doesn't matter anyway. but people that are in a different corp to be stealthy and even cant be seen in local as hostile is wrong period.



What u meant is that u dont like that ur not sure whos a bad guy and whos not. u dnt like that ur not sure of ur opponents power before u engage. U think its unfair that a neutral attacks u in null sec?

then why should it be any different in hi-sec when a neutrals not on ur side?

Thats just EVE.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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