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Exploration in Lowsec....few questions

Author
Nina Semiisku
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-06-27 14:56:50 UTC
Hey all. I'm a noob, trying to de-carebear myself a bit now. For that I'm going for data/relic sites in lowsec. So far I like it, the feeling of constant, looming threat in lowsec adds a lot to the fun---and, perhaps perversely, I like the tactical position I'm in: tiny ship without tank or weapons, strictly fitted to do exploration and to escape, only tanked by speed and cheapness (is cheapness-tanking a thing?) I know I can't fight, but I'm in the position of the prey: I need to be as quick, smart, and careful as I can just to survive. The prey can be victorious, too, no?

But some questions arose for me, and Id be grateful if I could get some bits of information from you:

---Not being so quick, smart, or anything I got myself killed the other night in a 0.1 system. I was impressed: I used my current routine of doing the trick to avoid being killed at entry, went to the sun, deployed my probes, and then cloaked. To my surprise, I was de-cloaked and killed no 15 seconds later. I tried to convo my killer, but he didn't reply, so perhaps someone here can enlighten me some: When I warp to a celestial to 0 km: will I end at a spot that depends from where I started, or is there just one spot at that celestial where everyone who sets 0 km lands regardless from what direction they are coming? I can't imagine any other way how he could come so close to de-cloak my ship. If that is so: should one, after arriving, just fly for some 50 km or so to be safe of this?

---When Im deactivating my cloak, two things are not in sync: the cloak button will almost immediately show it has stopped working, while my ship only becomes visible *to me* on the screen after about 6 seconds or so. What do potential enemies see? The immediate de-cloaking, or do they only see me after these few seconds when I can see my ship myself?

---Just a tiny annoyance, but a constant one: I have 16 probes, and auto-reload on---but most of the time it doesn't reload. Tiny bug, or is there a way to fix that for me?

---The mini-game: is there any tactics to it, or is the outcome strictly a combination of virus-strength and luck? And: does it matter how fast you are doing it (apart from generally wanting to do stuff quick and move on)?

---Far as I understand, asteroids are respawned during the server downtime---same for relic and data sites? Better chances if you explore soon after downtime?

---Finally: Do people in lowsec never speak at all, or do they just not speak in local? In all the time I've so far spent in lowsec I have never seen a word in any local chat apart from my own. Is everyone strictly only speaking in corp channels?


Lots of questions---Id be thankful for any answer.
Tyrendian Biohazard
The Bastards
Sedition.
#2 - 2014-06-27 15:10:50 UTC
- I believe you typically land in the same area. My recommendation would be to make a quick safe spot (add a location bookmark while in warp) and immediately warp to it when you land. That way you can clock there and the chances of them finding are next to zero.

- This should work on server ticks. If you do a bit of googling you see how the server interactions work with the client in the game. Everything is executed in one second ticks.

- If you are cloaking immediately, probe launchers won't reload when cloaked.

- There are some tricks to hacking in the mini-game, but its hard for me to explain it on here. Youtube should have some good tutorials and tips. Or someone will come along that can put the explanation into words better than I could.

- I believe so, but not 100% sure. Depending on where you go, your chances may increase in finding sites. When I explored lowsec, I had better luck finding sites in non faction warfare, less traveled systems out of the way from major hubs or routes. You can use the in game map to see stats of areas and determine where you may want to go.

- If you aren't friendly to them, people generally won't talk, or if they do its to taunt you. Good rule is that if they aren't blue to you, they are enemies and looking to destroy you. I know for one that if someone said in local "I'm just exploring, please don't kill me" I would put more effort into finding them than if they just passed through quietly. Also, sometimes people are just docked up and afk (Eve doesn't kick you from an afk timer) so they just might not be around to talk.

Also personal recommendation, I found null better for exploration than low. I ran across more cloaky campers in low sec sites than I ever did in null. Plus with the ways stations are in null, you have an easier time finding a system with nobody in it. The biggest problem is possibly getting past gate camps and bubbles in null.

Twitch streamer and EVE NT tournament broadcaster.

Penn Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-06-27 15:11:05 UTC
Nina Semiisku wrote:
Hey all. I'm a noob, trying to de-carebear myself a bit now. For that I'm going for data/relic sites in lowsec. So far I like it, the feeling of constant, looming threat in lowsec adds a lot to the fun---and, perhaps perversely, I like the tactical position I'm in: tiny ship without tank or weapons, strictly fitted to do exploration and to escape, only tanked by speed and cheapness (is cheapness-tanking a thing?) I know I can't fight, but I'm in the position of the prey: I need to be as quick, smart, and careful as I can just to survive. The prey can be victorious, too, no?

But some questions arose for me, and Id be grateful if I could get some bits of information from you:

---Not being so quick, smart, or anything I got myself killed the other night in a 0.1 system. I was impressed: I used my current routine of doing the trick to avoid being killed at entry, went to the sun, deployed my probes, and then cloaked. To my surprise, I was de-cloaked and killed no 15 seconds later. I tried to convo my killer, but he didn't reply, so perhaps someone here can enlighten me some: When I warp to a celestial to 0 km: will I end at a spot that depends from where I started, or is there just one spot at that celestial where everyone who sets 0 km lands regardless from what direction they are coming? I can't imagine any other way how he could come so close to de-cloak my ship. If that is so: should one, after arriving, just fly for some 50 km or so to be safe of this?

---When Im deactivating my cloak, two things are not in sync: the cloak button will almost immediately show it has stopped working, while my ship only becomes visible *to me* on the screen after about 6 seconds or so. What do potential enemies see? The immediate de-cloaking, or do they only see me after these few seconds when I can see my ship myself?

---Just a tiny annoyance, but a constant one: I have 16 probes, and auto-reload on---but most of the time it doesn't reload. Tiny bug, or is there a way to fix that for me?

---The mini-game: is there any tactics to it, or is the outcome strictly a combination of virus-strength and luck? And: does it matter how fast you are doing it (apart from generally wanting to do stuff quick and move on)?

---Far as I understand, asteroids are respawned during the server downtime---same for relic and data sites? Better chances if you explore soon after downtime?

---Finally: Do people in lowsec never speak at all, or do they just not speak in local? In all the time I've so far spent in lowsec I have never seen a word in any local chat apart from my own. Is everyone strictly only speaking in corp channels?


Lots of questions---Id be thankful for any answer.


First question - anything within 2500 m of you will decloak your ship, that includes your own probes.
Second question - dunno, sorry :)
Third question - if you activate your cloak it stops any reloads that are in progress including the probes.
Fourth Question - Virus strength and luck
Fifth question - Relic/Data/Combat anomalies all respawn when completed. They respawn somewhere else though, probably in the same constellation.
Sixth question - most don't talk
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#4 - 2014-06-27 15:18:30 UTC
He saw where you warped to and warped after you at 0 because that is what newbies and noobs usually choose as distance. Coming from same direction as you he warped at same place as you and decloaked you.

NEVER warp to celestials at 0 if you want to avoid engagement. And make in warp bookmark and warp back to it when you are probing.

When you disable cloak you show up on overview right away, slow fading in is just animation for your eyes only.

Autoreload doesn't work if you cloak up before loading ends.

Sites respawn after DT.

Lowsec is full of chatter, in your case probably about you :)
Try to start a nice talk in local and see how it goes. Idiots won't respond, normal people will. Unless they are busy slowly crawling to you :)

Invalid signature format

Aldroi Urtegul
Boerte Holdings
#5 - 2014-06-27 15:24:28 UTC
Hey.
Cheapness-tanking is a thing in highsec, not so much in low and null. And if victory is defined as you reaching your goal (not get destroyed), while denying your opponent the ability to reach his (destroy you), then yes, even the humble explorer can achieve great victories. Smile

-It's possible he took a guess. He could be sitting at gate and clearly see you warp to the sun. He then warped to zero, and got lucky. It can be beneficial to choose a range not at either end, 0 or 100. 50's OK, better yet 30 or 70.

-You immediately decloak. The animation is just eyecandy.

-Cloaking up will stop the reloading. If that's not the factor, then I don't know.

-I don't apply much tactics to it really. I move along the edges. If i find utility stuff, i grab it immediatly before clicking neighbourng nodes. Other than that, I really don't know.

-Not sure about this. It doesn't seem to be as fixed as asteroid belts though; no fixed number of sigs in a system, etc.

-You don't want undue attention. Goes for everyone out there, I guess.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2014-06-27 15:36:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
Nina Semiisku wrote:
(is cheapness-tanking a thing?)

Yes, I use it almost exclusively. Big smile

Penn Koskanaiken wrote:
First question - anything within 2500 m of you will decloak your ship, that includes your own probes.

The distance is actually 2000 m, and this does NOT include your probes, or other probes. You should, however, scan as quickly as possible to remove the probes from grid. Otherwise they are just sitting next to you giving away your location.

Try not to use the sun. It's the first place people check for cloaky ships. Especially don't warp to it at zero. I recommend you warp to a customs office at range instead. While everyone shares the same "location" at 0km, warping at range to that point DOES depend on the direction you came from. So if you warp to a customs office at 70 km, someone would have to warp at the same range, from the same direction, to land right on top of you.

People talk at appropriate times in lowsec. Talking in local is a great way to paint a target on your back. Many new players learn this lesson the hard way in high-sec, sometimes over and over. In low-sec people tend to be a bit smarter about the consequences of running their mouth. Generally when you see people talking, it will be just AFTER something "went down". It's always a good idea to shoot a message to someone that kills you though. Maybe half of them will ignore you (afk, only speaks russian, is a jerk), but the things you can learn from the other half will be well worth it. This works particularly well in combat ships as everyone loves a struggling newbro Atron pilot.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Nina Semiisku
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2014-06-27 15:56:26 UTC
Wow---so many helpful answers in just half an hour. Amazing...and thank you all!
Most of my questions are already answered...with one exception:

"Relic/Data/Combat anomalies all respawn when completed. They respawn somewhere else though" vs "Sites respawn after DT" Which is it? Perhaps someone else can weight in?

Tyrendian Biohazard wrote:
- I know for one that if someone said in local "I'm just exploring, please don't kill me" I would put more effort into finding them than if they just passed through quietly..


LOL...oh, no, thats not what I ever said! I just said things like Hi, or Is there anyone alive here? and one time I offered to kill my pod for free cause I wanted to get home quick. Perhaps they thought the latter was a trap. ;)

Null I will try out in a while...atm I think its better to get more experience in Low till I have that halfways down.

Schmata Bastanold wrote:
He saw where you warped to and warped after you at 0 because that is what newbies and noobs usually choose as distance.


Ah, ok...somehow I wasn't even thinking he came from the gate, but that makes sense.

Aldroi Urtegul wrote:
. I move along the edges.


Interesting...I do the same, not even being sure its really good, but intuitively it feels right.

Cara Forelli wrote:
While everyone shares the same "location" at 0km, warping at range to that point DOES depend on the direction you came from. So if you warp to a customs office at 70 km, someone would have to warp at the same range, from the same direction, to land right on top of you..


Ah! Thats most valuable to know!

Cara Forelli wrote:
[ Talking in local is a great way to paint a target on your back.t.


Could you explain this a bit more? You mean like making me a target psychologically? I pop up in local and people think: Lets kill this chick?

Thanks for all the advice, again!
William Ruben
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-06-27 16:52:07 UTC
I'm doing some exploration in null, and have found a few tricks that might help you.

1) Make your own safes, multiple perches over gates and varying distances and directions. Between these and bouncing off celestials, it makes a cat and mouse game with hunters grand fun

2) don't set your safes in line between two gates

3) control-space drops you out of warp, so if you have lots of others with you in system, you don't have to do the entire "bookmark en route then warp back" thing. This is the most useful command I have learned (this week).
Penn Koskanaiken
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2014-06-27 17:03:32 UTC
"Relic/Data/Combat anomalies all respawn when completed. They respawn somewhere else though" vs "Sites respawn after DT" Which is it? Perhaps someone else can weight in?

I run combat sites exclusively and can say for certain that downtime has no effect on Relic/Data/Combat respawns. I've been in systems scanning and had new signatures show up during the scan.
Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2014-06-27 17:20:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Cara Forelli
William Ruben wrote:
3) control-space drops you out of warp, so if you have lots of others with you in system, you don't have to do the entire "bookmark en route then warp back" thing. This is the most useful command I have learned (this week).

No...it doesn't...the only way to drop out of warp early is to initiate a warp without enough capacitor to reach your destination. Control-space will prevent you from jumping on contact, if you are warping to a gate and have already selected jump. It will also stop your warp if you initiate but haven't reached warp speed yet.

Talking in local: Imagine you are bored and like to blow things up. Suddenly someone talks in local. You know that 1. They are at the keyboard, 2. They are planning to stick around and wait for a reply. That gives you plenty of time to go out and look for them.

In high-sec people tend to target vocal entities for war-decs, because they are looking for tears and these people are likely to supply them. Lots of people talking about mining in local? Easy targets for your next wardec.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament

Nikolai Lachance
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-06-27 17:25:25 UTC
Planets, moons, and the sun all have a common warp-in point. Anyone warping to 0 on one of these objects will arrive in the same location (give or take like a kilometer) regardless of what direction they came from. Don't warp to 0.

William Ruben wrote:
3) control-space drops you out of warp

No it doesn't. If you press that while warping it will tell you that you can't do that because you're in a warp.

Ctrl-space while warping is still useful, if for example you pressed the "jump" button for a stargate or "dock" button for a station, and decide while in warp that you don't want to jump or dock immediately. Pressing ctrl-space there will cancel the jump or dock command but you will still finish warping to the destination.

The only way you can stop a warp before reaching the destination is if you didn't have enough capacitor energy to make the full warp. This is a trick you can use to your advantage, if you have a way of draining your own cap, but it requires setup, and isn't something you can do on the fly. Once you're in warp, your warp exit point is set and cannot be changed.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#12 - 2014-06-27 17:27:15 UTC
Penn Koskanaiken wrote:
"Relic/Data/Combat anomalies all respawn when completed. They respawn somewhere else though" vs "Sites respawn after DT" Which is it? Perhaps someone else can weight in?

I run combat sites exclusively and can say for certain that downtime has no effect on Relic/Data/Combat respawns. I've been in systems scanning and had new signatures show up during the scan.



As far as I'm aware - nobody really knows. Some people seem to think that DT effects the spawns and some say that they respawn somewhere else. When I was in null I would see systems scrubbed clean and you could travel far and wide without finding much of anything - if the respawning on completion theory was correct, I imagine that the level of signatures in an area should be constant, but that was just not the case in Null as far as I could tell. On the other hand, I have logged in right after dt and repeatedly found no signatures at all. All I can say about it is that CCP seems to like to keep the exact mechanics of how things spawn a mystery.

As to the op, you asked about strategy for the mini-game - its not very complicated, in fact its mostly just button mashing. Just work your way from oneside to other. Speed is not really a factor except in ghost sites which will explode if you take too long. Now while speed is not a factor, that does not mean that you can dilly dally while in low. You have to presume that the locals have already BM the sites you are in and will come and get you if they are awake.. That means that you have to work fast and move on if you want to avoid combat.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#13 - 2014-06-27 17:27:19 UTC
For your consideration, it might surprise you that going full r-tard and down to nullsec (properly fitted) may make you safer and more wealthy.

Notwithstanding, there are cloaking subtleties worth a look at the bottom of this.

F
Velicitia
XS Tech
#14 - 2014-06-27 17:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
William Ruben wrote:
I'm doing some exploration in null, and have found a few tricks that might help you.

1) Make your own safes, multiple perches over gates and varying distances and directions. Between these and bouncing off celestials, it makes a cat and mouse game with hunters grand fun

2) don't set your safes in line between two gates

3) control-space drops you out of warp, so if you have lots of others with you in system, you don't have to do the entire "bookmark en route then warp back" thing. This is the most useful command I have learned (this week).


1. yes
2. yes (although as an intermediate point to getting other safes, this is acceptable)
3. no. once you're in warp, you're in warp. [CTRL]+[SPACE] will however stop your ship from jumping (if you selected a gate, and chose "jump" by mistake) or from entering warp (i.e. it'll stop your ship from aligning / accelerating).

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

William Ruben
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2014-06-27 17:56:37 UTC
Nikolai Lachance wrote:
Planets, moons, and the sun all have a common warp-in point. Anyone warping to 0 on one of these objects will arrive in the same location (give or take like a kilometer) regardless of what direction they came from. Don't warp to 0.

William Ruben wrote:
3) control-space drops you out of warp

No it doesn't. If you press that while warping it will tell you that you can't do that because you're in a warp.

Ctrl-space while warping is still useful, if for example you pressed the "jump" button for a stargate or "dock" button for a station, and decide while in warp that you don't want to jump or dock immediately. Pressing ctrl-space there will cancel the jump or dock command but you will still finish warping to the destination.

The only way you can stop a warp before reaching the destination is if you didn't have enough capacitor energy to make the full warp. This is a trick you can use to your advantage, if you have a way of draining your own cap, but it requires setup, and isn't something you can do on the fly. Once you're in warp, your warp exit point is set and cannot be changed.

Ah, ok thanks for the clarification. I have only tried it a couple of times and it was during the initiation of warp, and obviously I over generalized it.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#16 - 2014-06-27 18:30:58 UTC
Nina Semiisku wrote:
---Finally: Do people in lowsec never speak at all, or do they just not speak in local? In all the time I've so far spent in lowsec I have never seen a word in any local chat apart from my own. Is everyone strictly only speaking in corp channels?

It's not always tactical to do so. Eve-mail your killer respectfully but to-the-point if you wish. They might reply once they are docked and no longer under pvp "stress". Your experience may vary. I don't make a huge deal about talking in local, because if the flashy yellow background and your shield alarms going off doesn't give you an incentive to shoot back, talking isn't going to solve anything either. Pirate

As for communication: people do indeed keep tabs on corp chat and various intel channels and semi-public lobbies. Groups also hook up via the Fleet Finder, with each fleet having it's own chatbox too.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#17 - 2014-06-27 18:36:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Inxentas Ultramar
I can also confirm both cosmic signatures and anomalies will respawn in real-time. You can actually see this happening in your probe scanner when it refreshes. I know that at downtime, the sites will refresh and reset just like missions do. Common misconception.

I believe there's only one real tactical move with the minigame. Say you get a white node. That can be one of the bonus items or one of the nasty locks (sorry my terminology is bad). At that point you might decide to not open it, and open the path around it instead, risking to click a lock and making the white one unavailable. If you don't hit it, you are sure you can continue that way and later open up that node.
Nina Semiisku
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2014-06-27 20:56:10 UTC
Thanks for the ongoing interesting replies!

...from the majority of opinions uttered, I conclude that the respawning of signatures has nothing to do with downtime. Good!

---For the social aspect: I think I would enjoy getting a bit of contact with other players in lowsec, but from what Im hearing so far it seems there are only two ways: Enter a lowsec corp (not practical for me atm), or be killed and hope the killer will talk a bit to me, and naturally I wouldnt willingly sacrifice a ship for that.
Flharfh Lhar
Sasquatch Control Bureau
#19 - 2014-06-28 16:26:46 UTC
You don't need to obsessively make safe spot bookmarks in every system you explore in, just don't ever warp to the sun. Pick a random planet / asteroid belt and warp to a random distance from it, launch probes, and cloak.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2014-06-28 18:19:43 UTC
OP, welcome to lowsec!

Lowsec data/relic is a great first step to de-carebear. +1

Cheap tank best tank for explo, imo. You can take the concept further by dropping off loot regularly.

You can launch probes right after hitting align (or warp) from gate. That way you'll reload spares while warping to safe or celestial.

Finally, I disagree on other posters' comments on local. Talk all you want, making friends is fun. Not everyone will reply, but those who will can be fun. Yes they may also kill you, but they would anyway. :)

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!

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