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Wormhole 'Futures' Discussion (Please Bob, yield content)

First post
Author
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2014-06-28 14:31:43 UTC
Quote:
Smaller more sporadic action, but still more.
I believe thats an oxymoron.

But I agree that wspace has become "mature" and it has lost some of the raw excitement of its first years. Therefore some environmental shake-up to loosen up the current established structure and let people build a new one would be nice. But thats for CCP.

However I dont think that diplomacy is preventing conflict - it just makes it more risky. There is higher number of strong corps and they field bigger fleets. So sieges get bigger as a consequence with all the good and bad that comes from it. Just recently wspace was on a brink of potentially massive conflict - we consciously pulled back and deescalated. Was it a mistake? Who knows... But not so long ago we had some massive fleets clashing in then LeadFarmers home and it was not fun for many a participant. Huge wars sound way more exciting when you look back at them in history than when you actually have to spend 72 hours watching a hole wobble...

btw I find it wonderful that the most vocal ones and with the longest posts about this are often burnt-out ex-wormholers who now fly for large nullsec blocs, as it shows that you still care about our little nook of eve.
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#42 - 2014-06-28 17:03:07 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
btw I find it wonderful that the most vocal ones and with the longest posts about this are often burnt-out ex-wormholers who now fly for large nullsec blocs, as it shows that you still care about our little nook of eve.

Well, I think you are right on the money with this point. Only speaking for myself, I'd say regardless of where I'm playing the game, I still argue wormholes have had some of the best stories and adventures, and have provided most of my favorite memories playing this game.

So, we can say that wormholes are still actively providing content for many players. I recently acquired access to some old CCRES mails and am going through their last days, and it is really cool. Although my last few years playing with wormholes, growing from a small nothing corp/alliance playing in low class wormholes to having the opportunity to participate in the higher class wormholes, the politics, the trolling, evictions, and wars have been a blast. So, looking back at all of that, I absolutely still care about the direction of the gameplay.

Believe it or not, I'm not really a super troll or drama"king" that only wants to enjoy content for myself and yank on Lazerhawks' collective chain for lols... I want other wormhole prospects and rising stars to enjoy the same fun I enjoyed, and I also want new and gifted forum gurus to rise up and stir up drama for overall enjoyment of everyone. I get that some people don't like that kind of fun, and some people are sensitive regarding it. Those people don't have to read the forums... Easy fix :)

My hope is that groups are replacing the ones that are leaving and that new people find the fun that was once there for some of us. I think that today's wormholes with various changes that CCP made for the overall game (Discovery Scanner/API/and such) are things that are making the wormhole experience very different, much like how the 3rd Party Mappers, Deployables, PCHA, and Corp Bookmarks made it different from when I started in wormholes. Quite a few wormholers don't know what it was like before Siggy, and that's cool, but for those of us that do remember, it's a very very different experience.

What G0hme said about inflation helping the increase in ISK efficiency of wormhole PVP is also important to note. Wormholes are changing and perhaps it only seems to be dying as we have reached the end of our current tech tree and experienced everything we could at this current level, became bored and see friends and foes leaving leading some to think things are going in a declining direction. WHoverlords dying was something of note, but like the cycle was replaced with a new channel with different rules and people. And as you said it would be nice to shake the structure loose again. No idea really how to do that, but would be nice.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

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HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2014-06-28 17:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
Radical changes?
Hmmm

Easy:
Death to Static - Really Lost in Space...
Remove Moons - Changes PvE Content radicly
More Dynamic Wormholes - Better connectivity works for my SmartPhone too
Remove Self Destruct within a forcefield - (HUGE Incentive for Loot pinatas)
Increase PI Yield
Spawn more Ore Belts in Low Class Wormholes
Decrease the Anomalies and Increase the Special Sites
Enable C4 Space Dualstatic (and in general more wormholes for C4 Space cant really hurt)
Lift the freaking Mass Limitation of Class 1 wormholes, give the Noobs an Orca they dont have to build inside
Reduce the Mass Limitations of C2 to C3 (Da **** do they need a 3b hole for??)
You know what would be great, some Ice that would be great.
Why having Constellations and no Constellation Chat
and stop thinking that "a bigger challenge" means MORE DPS! (thats CCP)
Give Sleepers again the Full Set of Electronic Warfare Toys

AND FOR BOB FREAKING SAKE REMOVE THE BLOODY MINIGAME! or make one bloody can.

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#44 - 2014-06-28 17:43:02 UTC
It's always a struggle about accessibility of wspace. One the one hand, it would be nice to keep wspace unknown, exciting and very hostile to retain the thrill of the days long gone. On the other hand, it nice to have it populated, so you actually come across people to shoot. Its nigh impossible to have it both ways. And I remember days before corp bookmarks... it was not good. The excitement of being the explorer doesnt last that long...

Most CCP changes were geared towards making wspace more "welcoming" (except API changes) and I kinda agree with that... with some exceptions. I think corp BMs and Odyssey were the big changes, rest didnt have that much impact. So I really dont think we are currently living through any notable change (BU probably think otherwise tho). Its just a regular ebb and flow of wh community, peeps come and go as they always have.

Regarding the shake-up, I think the ball is with CCP. And short of any major changes from their side (the alleged "new space"?), all we are left with is some massive holy war and even that would probably be just temporary reshuffle until the dust settles.
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#45 - 2014-06-28 17:47:40 UTC
Posting in a thread about how everything was better in the old days
Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#46 - 2014-06-28 17:49:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Proclus Diadochu
HerrBert wrote:
Radical changes?
Hmmm

Easy:
Death to Static
Remove Moons
More Dynamic Wormholes
Remove Self Destruct within a forcefield (HUGE Incentive for Loot pinatas)

Did you see the shitstorm I stirred up on Reddit pushing Axloth's Dual-Static C4 idea as the "C4 Super Highway"? It was simply wonderful for a thread, but so many hated it. You're right though, we should do more dynamic as that as it would radically change things.

Also, I agree 100% that SD in POS's should be removed. I've always hated that mechanic.

Death to Statics and Removing Moons might be too much though. In my opinion.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
#47 - 2014-06-28 17:51:24 UTC
Chitsa Jason wrote:
quak quak..

All I have to say is **** content. Yeah **** it. I am here to have fun and not have content.


wat?

How do you have fun without content? Is your definition of fun logging into comms?
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know
#48 - 2014-06-28 17:52:00 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:

Also, I agree 100% that SD in POS's should be removed. I've always hated that mechanic.
.


They already say they want to remove entire forcefield. Think this will happen in the same bag :)
Tho never underestimate the power of loot denial
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2014-06-28 17:53:52 UTC
SD in POS is not a bad mechanic, infact it has done more good then harm coming to think of it, with it rendering Sieges completly "non-profitable" compared to the ships that get destroyed.

But in that Sense enabling this Mechanic would also make EVERYONE a blooooody Loot Piniata and some other folks may peak waaaay to much interest.

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#50 - 2014-06-28 17:56:31 UTC
HerrBert wrote:
SD in POS is not a bad mechanic, infact it has done more good then harm coming to think of it, with it rendering Sieges completly "non-profitable" compared to the ships that get destroyed.

But in that Sense enabling this Mechanic would also make EVERYONE a blooooody Loot Piniata and some other folks may peak waaaay to much interest.

We are talking "RADICAL" here.

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#51 - 2014-06-28 17:56:56 UTC
Don't yank my chains, bro. I need those.
HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2014-06-28 18:00:43 UTC  |  Edited by: HerrBert
Okay "Add NO SD in FF" but Remove Capitals, pushing more for a team based approach regarding main Wormhole Mechanics (Sieging, Rolling and Hole control)

Of course you still can build as many Capitals as you want but for anything else Class 4 Laws are in effect.

But that would take away Dropping into Null ... soo yoink

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Proclus Diadochu
Mar Sarrim
Red Coat Conspiracy
#53 - 2014-06-28 18:03:11 UTC
HerrBert wrote:
Okay "Add NO SD in FF" but Remove Capitals, pushing more for a team based approach regarding main Wormhole Mechanics (Sieging, Rolling and Hole control)

I'll counter with "Add NO SD in FF", keep Capitals, give POS's a better defense game against sieging. There's your minigame :P

Minister of High Society | Twitter: @autoritare

E-mail: diogenes.proc@gmail.com

My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/

The Diogenes Club | Join W-Space | Down The Pipe

HerrBert
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2014-06-28 18:05:00 UTC
Proclus Diadochu wrote:
HerrBert wrote:
Okay "Add NO SD in FF" but Remove Capitals, pushing more for a team based approach regarding main Wormhole Mechanics (Sieging, Rolling and Hole control)

I'll counter with "Add NO SD in FF", keep Capitals, give POS's a better defense game against sieging. There's your minigame :P



Dota as Pos Defense.


LADIES AND GENTLEMAN WORMHOLE SPACE HAS BEEN FIXED

Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx

Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2014-06-28 19:35:52 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#56 - 2014-06-28 20:00:09 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Nice things about wormholes is that you don't need to live in wormholes to get wormhole content. Lowsec's nice for wormhole diving with how many pop up. Every other system seems to have some wormhole with someone waiting to be ganked.
I believe that majority of wormholers would tell you exactly the reverse: one of the best things about permanently living inside a WH is that you can use it to access the entirety of New Eden simultaneously. We get significant portion of our kills from random nullsec (and to a lesser extent lowsec) regions. Curiously though, some "critics" give the impression that these kspace kills are "proof" of whs being dead, while in fact they are a direct result of wh awesomeness which allows you to travel from Jita to Delve in couple jumps, bypass intel, kill some **** and then hop to Tenal to hunt some more - so in some sense murdering nullbears IS a WH content, as only the wh mechanics allow us to do it in this manner. This is one of the greatest and most overlooked gifts of wspace that gives us essentially a mobile pirate base, as opposed to kspacers, who are pretty much stuck in one or two regions, fighting the same enemies in the same systems over and over again.


You don't need to LIVE in a wormhole to do that.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#57 - 2014-06-28 20:13:17 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
Nice things about wormholes is that you don't need to live in wormholes to get wormhole content. Lowsec's nice for wormhole diving with how many pop up. Every other system seems to have some wormhole with someone waiting to be ganked.
I believe that majority of wormholers would tell you exactly the reverse: one of the best things about permanently living inside a WH is that you can use it to access the entirety of New Eden simultaneously. We get significant portion of our kills from random nullsec (and to a lesser extent lowsec) regions. Curiously though, some "critics" give the impression that these kspace kills are "proof" of whs being dead, while in fact they are a direct result of wh awesomeness which allows you to travel from Jita to Delve in couple jumps, bypass intel, kill some **** and then hop to Tenal to hunt some more - so in some sense murdering nullbears IS a WH content, as only the wh mechanics allow us to do it in this manner. This is one of the greatest and most overlooked gifts of wspace that gives us essentially a mobile pirate base, as opposed to kspacers, who are pretty much stuck in one or two regions, fighting the same enemies in the same systems over and over again.


You don't need to LIVE in a wormhole to do that.


The guy living out of an Orca's SMB is the true king Cool

Wish they would've given the paladin a SMB and a refit service, would've been the coolest c2-archon you could've taken along.
Axloth Okiah
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#58 - 2014-06-28 20:18:31 UTC
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
You don't need to LIVE in a wormhole to do that.
That is correct in theory. I'd like to see a kspace group that is actually successfully doing that, though.
Seraph IX Basarab
Outer Path
Seraphim Division
#59 - 2014-06-28 21:29:08 UTC
Axloth Okiah wrote:
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:
You don't need to LIVE in a wormhole to do that.
That is correct in theory. I'd like to see a kspace group that is actually successfully doing that, though.



Hi.
Saisin
Chao3's Rogue Operatives Corp
#60 - 2014-06-28 23:38:51 UTC
G0hme wrote:


...
Not unless Wspace is radically changed for good. We're talking, no towers, no permanent home, no capitals sort of changes. .


Each type of space ends up being what the players are making of it, with the rules sets by CCP. W-space had its pioneers, and is now in a settlement phase. There is no point in changing that...

instead, CCP should create new space type where they can introduce these concepts. I would totally see a Z-space for example which would not allow permanent settlements...

Changing the current rules of the various spaces is not the way to go (except for SOV rules in general but just to make sov grinding more entertaining)

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