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Dev blog: Coming in Crius

First post First post First post
Author
GreasyCarl Semah
A Game as Old as Empire
#41 - 2014-06-28 03:08:52 UTC
Dorna Loone wrote:
I probably shouldn't prejudge this, and will at least give it a try.

However, my previous worries centered around variable factory slot costs (becoming quite significant now) and the effect of the 'team' changes seem to be being implemented as originally designed by CCP.

So, how do I decide, before going out and collecting all the 'stuff' I need, whether making item X is likely to turn a profit or not ?
Even more complicated for T2 when I've got components to build first then the final ship. T3 is probably the same, or worse.

Am I constantly going to be loading the corp's manufacturing BP's, minerals, etc etc into a freighter and looking for a cheaper production system, then probably trying to open an office there for corp members to be able to use the assets ?

Sorry, but these 2 aspects of the patch are a total nightmare.

How does the 'simpler' - 'good time to start manufacture' sales-pitch work ?

I know CCP Devs don't 'do' industry, but don't they even listen ?


This. I can't believe they are going to implement this system where you can't really predict your production costs. But here we are. Based on what is on the test server I think it may be a good idea to just take the summer off and let this **** show that they insist on implementing run its course.
Oxide Ammar
#42 - 2014-06-28 07:58:06 UTC
Where the hell the new Dominix design ? they postponed it from Kronos to Crius ...they dropped the whole idea ?

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.

Shane Merol
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2014-06-28 08:38:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:


To help address the lack of interesting options for Jump Freighters, we are planning to introduce a set of jump fuel conservation modules in the Crius release in July. These modules will not be available in Kronos.

So we expect that most Freighter and Jump Freighter pilots will use their three low slots to mix and match the following modules to meet their needs:

  • (For Jump Freighters after the Crius release) Jump Fuel Conservation Modules


This quote from the Freighters/JFs rebalance thread indicated that post-Crius a Jump Fuel Conservation module would be incoming, either for capitals in general or just for JFs.

Can we get some clarification and specifications on this extremely tantalizing piece of information?
Solecist Project
#44 - 2014-06-28 10:29:17 UTC
Andi_1.png, Andi_2.png, ...

I love this! :D
I name all the images I make in the same way. XD

It's super effective after a few hundred images ... *laughs* xD

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Aria Jimbojohnson
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-06-28 11:23:08 UTC
So, basically, they pushed back the industry changes for 2 months....to release pretty much the same incomplete, barely tested crap? Awesomesauce.
KnifeOrSpoon
Contraposition Industries Inc
#46 - 2014-06-28 12:20:01 UTC
Delicious. Spent the day on SISI taking a look around... was impressed with the changes to slots (i.e removal), build times considerably reduced (if the following figures are accurate that is).


Ballistic Control System II
Copying - 20 x max run BPC in a POS Lab = 25 days!
Invention - 1 x max run BPC in a POS Lab = 1h 45m (not that bad considering no slots)
Manufacturing - 10 x T2 BCS2 - Build time ~3 hours but I pay SCC 232,000 ISK for using my own POS module???

At first thought it was the total build cost, until I checked the Journal and yes indeed. SCC is taking my ISK to build in MY pos Assembly Array.

For giggles, threw a few more Labs on the POS to see if there was a multiplier or benefit for those of us with multiple labs. Nothing.

Same goes for Assembly Arrays and Ship Arrays... oh, 144M ISK build fee for a single run for a Raven. Ouch!

/ Delicious.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#47 - 2014-06-28 13:23:31 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Where the hell the new Dominix design ? they postponed it from Kronos to Crius ...they dropped the whole idea ?

It was never part of Kronos and Crius

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2014-06-28 13:23:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Kolonko
Sizeof Void wrote:
Max Kolonko wrote:
So yeah, people took months to research a BPO to say level 300, where 90% of results was at level 10 and 99% around 30 iirc?? Soooo Yeahh, noooo, CCP should not recompensate anything in here - If You fealt You actually had advantage by going to insane level let me tel You that advantage was measured in single digit isk values on multi milion isk worth items

The same small gains applies to many level 5 skills, stacking modules, training up Broker Relations, etc. As with most things in the game, small gains multiply quickly into advantage.

Anyone who has worked to earn an advantage, however slight, by following the established game rules/mechanics, is entitiled to be compensated when the advantage is going to be arbitrarily removed from the game.

And, the only ones who tend to argue against such compensation are the ones who did not feel it was worth their time/effort to earn it, and seek now to reach competitive equality with those players, without any investment.

In any case, CCP Greyscale stated that "this is one of the areas we're preparing to focus the most on in terms of receiving feedback and making adjustments or additions to smooth the transition".

I'm simply asking to hear CCP's version of the "reasonable solution that meet's everyone's legitimate concerns".


Show me a skill that takes months to train from lvl 4 to 5 and gives You less than 1% gain. Just becasue You wasted time for nothing does not mean CCP should compensate You for this.

Sooo many people could not understand or didnt wanted to understand how research was actually working so instead of producing and making profit they have wasted time researching. And this additional research time was never returned in profit later down the road in most cases.

I would agree if the difrences was actually like 5%-10% between lets say 30 and 300


To give some actuall numbers and not work on speculatons and feelings - here we have RAven BPO with max skill at ME0 it costs (based on the prices I have in EVE HQ taht might be off byl will acurately show reduction):
ME 000: 204 891 410
ME 010: 191 191 614
ME 030: 190 308 366
ME 100: 189 971 520
ME 300: 189 873 566

So by going from lvl 10 to level 300 You are reducing the cost of that raven by 1 318 000 more or less. Thats 0,6% reduction in cost. Show me a skill that have that low impact.

And comparing level 30 to level 300 gives 0,2% reduction - three times less.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-06-28 13:27:07 UTC
Aria Jimbojohnson wrote:
So, basically, they pushed back the industry changes for 2 months....to release pretty much the same incomplete, barely tested crap? Awesomesauce.


LOL, go to SISI and test instead of whining.

Report bugs and tell what You dont like.

Its on SISI fro two weeks and will be for three more thats a ton of times to fix stuff if someone will report them instead of going OMG ITS BROKEN, ROLL BACK
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2014-06-28 13:34:06 UTC
KnifeOrSpoon wrote:
Delicious. Spent the day on SISI taking a look around... was impressed with the changes to slots (i.e removal), build times considerably reduced (if the following figures are accurate that is).


Ballistic Control System II
Copying - 20 x max run BPC in a POS Lab = 25 days!
Invention - 1 x max run BPC in a POS Lab = 1h 45m (not that bad considering no slots)
Manufacturing - 10 x T2 BCS2 - Build time ~3 hours but I pay SCC 232,000 ISK for using my own POS module???

At first thought it was the total build cost, until I checked the Journal and yes indeed. SCC is taking my ISK to build in MY pos Assembly Array.

For giggles, threw a few more Labs on the POS to see if there was a multiplier or benefit for those of us with multiple labs. Nothing.

Same goes for Assembly Arrays and Ship Arrays... oh, 144M ISK build fee for a single run for a Raven. Ouch!

/ Delicious.


You still have to hire people to do the manufacturing, thats the reason why You have to pay even on a pos. Its not nano-manufacturing controled mentally by Your clone, its actuall manufacturing with people operation the machines.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#51 - 2014-06-28 13:51:09 UTC
GreasyCarl Semah wrote:
Dorna Loone wrote:
I probably shouldn't prejudge this, and will at least give it a try.

However, my previous worries centered around variable factory slot costs (becoming quite significant now) and the effect of the 'team' changes seem to be being implemented as originally designed by CCP.

So, how do I decide, before going out and collecting all the 'stuff' I need, whether making item X is likely to turn a profit or not ?
Even more complicated for T2 when I've got components to build first then the final ship. T3 is probably the same, or worse.

Am I constantly going to be loading the corp's manufacturing BP's, minerals, etc etc into a freighter and looking for a cheaper production system, then probably trying to open an office there for corp members to be able to use the assets ?

Sorry, but these 2 aspects of the patch are a total nightmare.

How does the 'simpler' - 'good time to start manufacture' sales-pitch work ?

I know CCP Devs don't 'do' industry, but don't they even listen ?


This. I can't believe they are going to implement this system where you can't really predict your production costs. But here we are. Based on what is on the test server I think it may be a good idea to just take the summer off and let this **** show that they insist on implementing run its course.


Yes You can, just log in and try it out. Select BPO (even if You dont have it) and chose a system and there You go - all costs are shown.
Max Kolonko
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#52 - 2014-06-28 13:55:36 UTC
My ideas:
1. Right now clicking on an required Item in UI (for example Tritanium when building something) shows the Show Info window for that item. I think the default behaviour should be Open Market Details. You will show info the few times when making first production to see what You need, but later on You just want to buy it, over and over and over again.

2. You still cant select ME and TE for BPO when viewing in industry window to see the effect of reaserch before commiting to it.


3. Right now it seems only regional facilities are shown in list of available facilities. I cant seem to select far away system. in another region
Aria Jimbojohnson
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2014-06-28 13:57:51 UTC
Max Kolonko wrote:
Aria Jimbojohnson wrote:
So, basically, they pushed back the industry changes for 2 months....to release pretty much the same incomplete, barely tested crap? Awesomesauce.


LOL, go to SISI and test instead of whining.

Report bugs and tell what You dont like.

Its on SISI fro two weeks and will be for three more thats a ton of times to fix stuff if someone will report them instead of going OMG ITS BROKEN, ROLL BACK


There's been some testing. It is currently a mess on SISI, very unlikely it'll be anywhere near ready on release.
Optimo Sebiestor
The New Eden School of trade
Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
#54 - 2014-06-28 14:14:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Optimo Sebiestor
Increased buildcost = increased cost on market. Sellers don't mind, since they will just shuffle the cost onto the buyer. It will be interesting to see how the general population reacts when they understand how this patch will affect them.

edit: the backlog of items, will cause a vacuume for some time. Meaning it will be impossible to profit for a while.
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#55 - 2014-06-28 16:06:10 UTC
Good dev blog. Short and to the point with links, pics, -1 for no graphs. j/k

I'm astounded at all the tears in the thread. The framework has been laid. Bugs arte being ironed out. We still have 4 weeks to go. Plenty of time to get the little things done.

I for one would like an API endpoint so we can pull system usage and cost info for cost predictions.

And to the person crying about how they can't see the potential results of their research... its 1% per ME level and 2% per TE level. How hard is that to understand? Base cost of mineral(s) * (1-ME). Bust out a spreadsheet and do some math.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#56 - 2014-06-28 16:40:16 UTC
if its going to cost me 144m to build a raven from my own POS and pay crew that are "make believe" there working on my bpo's and what have you..

then ccp should implement a crew training skill to lower the fee's and increase the experience level of crew members... crews/teams/fairies.. what ever you want to call them I really don't care.


also I would like for ccp to revamp the P.I provide us a sim-city like look..

there have at it.
Oxide Ammar
#57 - 2014-06-28 16:44:06 UTC
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Where the hell the new Dominix design ? they postponed it from Kronos to Crius ...they dropped the whole idea ?

It was never part of Kronos and Crius


Part of what ? next year expansion..

Lady Areola Fappington:  Solo PVP isn't dead!  You just need to make sure you have your booster, remote rep, cyno, and emergency Falcon alts logged in and ready before you do any solo PVPing.

Milla Goodpussy
Garoun Investment Bank
#58 - 2014-06-28 17:45:02 UTC
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
Oxide Ammar wrote:
Where the hell the new Dominix design ? they postponed it from Kronos to Crius ...they dropped the whole idea ?

It was never part of Kronos and Crius


Part of what ? next year expansion..



don't give them more idea's before you know it.. it will end up on the NES store shelves..

5 dolla new skin buy now go vrooooooooooooom
Balint Vazsonyi
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2014-06-28 17:48:40 UTC
Initial impressions from an industry newb (from Sisi as of 28June):

I was on Sisi, never done industry before, so I thought I'd try my first manufacturing effort to try out the new UI. Overall impression was great. I had briefly looked at industry before, but was never grabbed by it. The new interface will definitely help change that for newer players. My very first impressions:

- Estimated price of the output was easy to see, but didn't see the total estimated cost of all inputs (actually found this once I did my second job). Maybe make the circle around the arrows the same darker blue as the bars under the input products to hint that mousing over will give more info?

- expected some sort of tooltip when I moused over the blueprint icon in the center. Maybe show total estimated profit / run with current blueprint/skills and team, and under that the estimated profit with perfect blueprint/skills and a top team? That would motivate people to train skills, research blueprints and bid for teams.

- along the same lines, the six activity-type buttons all say "activity not supported at this facility" when something isn't available. The tech III buttons could nudge people toward starbase ownership by saying "activity requires a starbase with an Experimental Laboratory", etc (I'm assuming tech III can't be done in a regular station anywhere).

- System cost index: not clear what the difference between the dark blue and the light blue is. I assume the dark is the standard cost, which has been reduced for some reason and the light blue is the effective cost index? Maybe a tool-tip to show the causal factors.

- I tried to bid for a team, typed in my current system (which had no team) and put in some numbers for a price, button stayed greyed out. Presumably this just isn't implemented yet. And hopefully the system text box will become a drop-down to list systems (or at least auto-complete). Really, clicking on the empty 'team' icon above the blueprint should open a window with two sides, all the available teams on the left, and the ability to drag them into your system on the right. Then a pop-up asking how much you're willing to bid.

Final thoughts:
1. As a non-industrialist I liked it, and I think it has made me more interested in trying the various industry paths.

2. Industry has always needed a numbered list of steps to lower the barrier to entry, with an obvious "start here" button and an even more obvious "steps 2-4" path. But you could create one just by changing the labels of the menu tabs for "Blueprints - Facilities - Jobs - Teams". Change it to "1. Select Blueprint", "2. Select Facility" , "3. Monitor Jobs", "4. Find a Team" (the team part doesn't really flow, maybe separate that tab). In addition to changing the label, change the shape to rightward arrows to show it's a process.
The dedicated industry guys would hate this, seeing it as a dumbing down (which it is). But they'll like selling to the new players who get hooked on Eve, and we'll all like blowing up their indy's full of newly manufactured supplies.

3. profit.

B
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-06-28 19:00:47 UTC
"Working teams" must be using Jove technology - to be able to travel anywhere in the gaming universe without being seen but arrive safe and sound...