EVE New Citizens Q&A

I'd like to move out and try nullsec, but I don't have the kind of schedule that allows for hours-long fleet engagements on a regular basis. I've been informed by some players that a corp renting space is a good fit for that situation, but others have insisted that renters aren't worth joining. What are some general opinions on this?

I gave some thought to wormholes since I do have a few scanning skills trained, but decided I didn't like the thought of living in a POS instead of a station.

I don't have any expectations, I was more hoping someone with experience could share what they know. Thanks for your input J.

Bare in mind not all sov-owning entities do CTA's or have fixed demands on your time. Some can be casual-friendly. Meanwhile, it's always possible to leave a fleet mid-way through. If your group recognized that real-life comes first, then it wont be a problem, socially.

Renter corps get the benefit of higher value space, and don't need to defend their space, but do not have the benefit of impact and meaning. I'd say the former merit doesn't level out the loss in the latter. Better to try out joining a sov-owning alliance, and give it a shot. Eve is much more interesting that way.

First, on the renting front. You will almost certainly not be allowed to join the SOV holders fleets. As for the null sec alliances, there are relatively few that I know that truly have Call to Arms (CTAs) demanding that you log in for them. On the flip side, a portion of them do have other metrics for activity that they check. If your not active enough, out you go. They are usually pretty up front about what those activity requirements are (x number of kills in x number of days, etc). If your looking to go casual mode, I would recommend Brave Newbies and the HERO Coalition. They are focused more on pure fun and very welcoming of new players.

Doesn't matter if you are in renting corp or normal sov holding corp or whatever else, pain of null is the same: shopping based on schedule of carrier jumps sucks.

You should also know that should things go south, the overlord alliance can deny you access to the station. One day everything is going fine, the next day all your assists are locked in station and you cant undock because if you do you wont be able to redock. (If you reach this point and dont have a carrier to load everything into it, all you can do is conduct a firesale or hold on to your stuff in the hopes that you will be able to get into a corp with access to it in the future). Also renting alliances are not necessarily "chill" with no mandatory opps. They got to pay their fees or be kicked, so while you may not be having to deal with deployments, etc. . . you may certainly find that you have to do mandatory ops to help pay bills.

I should add that if you dont have alot of play time and are looking for a causal environment, you should check out lowsec. Lowsec is very conducive to logging on when you want and doing small roams etc...

It amazes me that there is so much disdain for renters. No one here would think twice about renting office space for our RL businesses. That is what renter corps are: businesses, ISK-printing arrangements. Who gives a rat's ass what people think about your "tattoo" (srsly Tau?)?

1. You don't have to rent yourself. You can join a renter. Most of those with open recruitment can be found in the recruitment forums. They are generally up front about their renter status. Payment plans vary. Some charge a tax (ones that focus on ratting) and some charge flat fees. Mine charges a flat fee that is less than I make in a single hour of running anomalies. Some charge low taxes but require corp ops on some sort of schedule. One I looked at had a Saturday ice mining op. Services also vary. Some will have paid courier services, some free, some on a schedule, etc. Some charge a fee if you want your own POS.

2. There is serious ISK to be made. With 2 ravens and a very relaxed attitude, I pull in about 120mil per hour running anomalies. Multiboxed carriers earn even more. PI is excellent in null and POCOs are typically untaxed for your corp and/or alliance. The ones in our general area are all untaxed. Mining is excellent. A maxed miner with boosts can pull in 55mil or so per hour (depending on variables). If a renter corp wanted, a single upgraded system could support several hundred miners (yes, you read that correctly). Most renter corps have ore buyback programs, so you don't even have to move the stuff to market if you don't want to. Competent corps with industry and spreadsheet-minded members can make many, many times more than the rent.

3. There is some bad info in this thread. Things vary between rental alliances. In BoT, all but the most choice moons are open to mining. Further, corps are permitted to moon mine in unrented systems until someone rents them. They also permit super cap construction for a fee, but will rebate those fees if you sell the super to PL. You can even put up a POS in unrented systems (e.g., for scouts).

4. BoT has a "militia." It's a fleet open to any BoT member and the FC is from PL. I've heard that other renter alliances have similar arrangements. If you want to try flying with a competent FC who is willing to work with those unfamiliar with fleet PvP, it's an excellent opportunity. But you don't have to participate in any way, shape, or form.

5. It's not safe space, but it's a lot less busy than most other space. BoT even has "overflow" systems if your system is being camped.

6. What people won't admit: many, perhaps as much as half, of all renters are actually pvp corps/alliance member alts. They're running their own building projects in alt corps safe from spies. They're operating subletting businesses by bringing in renters and collecting taxes. They're using ratting space free from the hundreds/thousands of other alliance members who can roam freely in their own space. I'm also reasonably certain that alliances have renters in other alliances' space (how better to protect your mining ops!).

There are down sides to renting.
1. The one that annoys me most is limited mobility. Travel through other rented systems has to be "with a purpose." E.g. doing escalations, traveling to a specific destination, shopping, that sort of thing. Believe me, people will CHECK too. "I'm going shopping at this station." "What are you buying?" and so on. Some corps have cleaned out the market in their stations to prevent the use of shopping excuses. On the other hand, many corps don't mind at all. They have set up markets (e.g. minerals or ice products) and want people to buy their stuff. Also, traveling to and from hisec is relatively safe (not actually safe, just relatively). With my BoT tags I can set a route through PL ally space and make 44 jumps unmolested. Though I haven't tried it, I bet you could run freighters all over BoT space without too many issues.

2. War decs galore. This won't affect you most of the time, but it hampers hisec travel. However, this is true for all large alliances, so there is no real difference here.

3. Stigma. As evidenced by some of the answers in this thread, many people look down on renters. Of course, every single one of them lives in a nation state that provides for their common defense and rarely, if ever, requires them to serve in the military. They own or work for companies that rent their work space. They pay their taxes and use public services. The renter does the exact same thing. Why this is distasteful, especially when those renters are paying for their alliance's pvp, is a mystery.

4. Uncertainty. Who knows what the rental or controlling alliance will do in the future? Could they lock you out? Could they lose space? I'm not terribly worried about any of this. All of it is true for PvP alliances too. And since those same alliances are the ones doing the renting, the reality is that your fates are tied together. Personally, I'm not too worried that PL is going to be losing space any time soon. If they do, I can still rent from the new guys. What do I care who owns the space?

I'm generally pleased with my choice to join a renter. I have a character in Brave and getting PvE done in Catch is a gigantic pain in the ass. With this arrangement, I can get my ISK in short, efficient bursts. Then I log on my PvP alt and join a fleet in Brave. It's not like joining a renter is a jail sentence.

Basically this.

The only alliance I know of that is an exception to this is SYJ, though they rent out space in amarr low sec instead of null. They do allow renters to join in for fleets and such, and rental corporations down there might be a good choice for an enterprising new pilot such as yourself.

Another option might be corps based in NPC null sec. These corps are usually smaller, and don't have to worry about controlling space other than keeping others from destroying their poses.

I find this difficult to agree with. I've known quite a few pilots that have actually moved from WH space to renter space for a more casual playstyle. It sort of depends on the size and culture of your corporation, but the result is the same - a lot of time invested.

When you are part of a small WH corp, you'll have to do a fair bit of scanning every day. You may think you are fast at scanning, until you open up to multiple systems with 30 signatures each. Also in any of the upper class wormholes you'll have to wait around for people to be available to run sites. An old corp-mate of mine with sporadic playtimes used to miss out on most of our site running and pvp, as combat in wormhole space is fast and furious, separated by hours of scanning/scouting. "You just missed it" was a running joke with him when he'd log on.

Larger wormhole corps are a bit different, as there is less individual pressure to scan for hours on end. However, they suffer from the same issues as null sec, because trying to cram all those people into mass limited holes becomes a logistical nightmare. Shopping has to be planned around available routes. You'll be pressured into staying on for fleet ops when you really don't have time for it, because otherwise you don't get to participate. There's nothing quite like getting an entire fleet rolled out and having to fly 30 jumps through null/low for a new connection when it's already an hour past reasonable bedtime. Especially when you have capitals involved.

All that said I <3 wormhole space and you should definitely check it out if you have time to invest. It has great small gang combat and very lucrative PVE. It's just, more often than not, time invested is directly proportional to enjoyment.