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[Crius] Manufacturing and general UI feedback

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#181 - 2014-06-21 12:22:42 UTC
The fact that you can't show info on a required item and get a clear indication of how close you can get the item and how. Might be just for new players working thru NPE missions but it needs to happen.

ie: This item is found in missions.
This item has to be reprocessed from ore and can be found with in 2 jumps from the system. or These rocks supply that materiel. Some thing besides a non highlighted hint that you need to leave the system.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#182 - 2014-06-21 12:52:47 UTC
The input categories don't seem to be ordered consistently. For instance if I select a light neutron blaster I BPC for invention I get optional items then datacores then data interfaces, while if I select a large capacitor control circuit I BPC I get data interfaces, datacores then optional items.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#183 - 2014-06-21 13:32:22 UTC
A thing that just now jumped to my mind again:

Will the years-old error be fixed that BPO have the Invention tab and BPC the Copy/TE-/ME-Research tab even though neither nor is possible for them? The tabs need to be interchanged.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#184 - 2014-06-21 15:00:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Salpun
Can we make these pages https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Locations_of_ore_and_ice_in_space https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Minerals_Descriptions offical.

Having that page in the materials icon tool tip in the industrial panel would clear up a lot of issues.

Even a in game version of the all in one place information cheat cheat that us players have created would be a great improvement linked some where in the industrial window.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Scout Vyvorant
Doomheim
#185 - 2014-06-22 07:47:02 UTC
PoS ui Feedback:

Is it possible to remove the ***** when you type the PoS shield password, or make it optional? I have no idea if they serve a purpose server side, but in real life it's quite unlikely to have an unwanted person behind you reading your PoS password.

Industry UI Feedback:

Is it possible to have a number when you mouse over the System Cost Index?
Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#186 - 2014-06-25 14:47:42 UTC
• Extra material removal


Doing ME on Station part bpo's (parts to assemble the 4 racial stations/outposts) is currently on tranquility pointless as it doesnt effect the requird materials. May i hope this still going to be like this? In other words; as a stationbuilder, is my current station stock going to get devalued due the new ME changes and/or can i get a reimbursement for this if this is going to happen?
H3llHound
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#187 - 2014-06-25 15:52:02 UTC
With the new build up and running I just like to know if those production material bonuses in the amarr outpost are a bug or intended?

Exhibit A: Prospect, invented pre-patch with symmetry -3/0, 3runs

Material - Quantity
Crystalline Carbonide Armor Plate - 840
Photon Microprocessor - 630
Oscillator Capacitor Unit - 168
Morphite - 126
Construction Blocks - 84
Magnetometric Sensor Cluster - 63
Ion Thruster - 63
Pulse Shield Emitter - 63
Fusion Reactor Unit - 12
Venture - 3


Became this: Prospect BPC post-Crius

I get the following Facility/skills bonuses:
ME: http://i.imgur.com/zKjAeBU.png?1
PE: http://i.imgur.com/5Culn2s.png?1
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#188 - 2014-06-25 16:36:27 UTC
H3llHound wrote:
With the new build up and running I just like to know if those production material bonuses in the amarr outpost are a bug or intended?

You might be seeing this:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
For each previously slot-improving manufacturing-related Outpost Improvement, you'll get a 1% bonus to ME instead (we can do that now).
H3llHound
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2014-06-25 17:03:32 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
H3llHound wrote:
With the new build up and running I just like to know if those production material bonuses in the amarr outpost are a bug or intended?

You might be seeing this:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
For each previously slot-improving manufacturing-related Outpost Improvement, you'll get a 1% bonus to ME instead (we can do that now).



I knew that the slots upgrades become ME upgrades....have a closer look at what bonuses I am getting atm. 7%,29%,30%,30%
Firvain
Wildly Inappropriate
Wildly Inappropriate.
#190 - 2014-06-25 21:17:38 UTC
SO after playing around with the new UI, here are some of my gripes.

New UI looks shiney. But once you get over the shiney factor its just too cluttered with useless space. The list showing your blueprints/facilities/teams/jobs is just way too small. If you are just looking at jobs 66% of your screen is wasted with well nothing. If you are looking for teams then likewise 66% of your screen is doing nothing. That screen space can be used to show more jobs/teams with more info in them.
Looking at jobs there is no way in telling what date they get delivered. Ive got a job that comes out in 68days 15hours, I have absolutly no idea when that comes out of research unless I grab a calandar and actully count down the days.
Looking at Blueprints, there is no way to filter out BPC's from BPO's. Just a small runs remaining thats easily overlookable, thats goign to result in some accidents heh. You can only blueprints on name/ME/PE missing the group sort which is very usefull.

Switching input when building an item doesnt update if you have the necesary materials to build or not. It requires you to update number of runs first or do something else.

Switching input shows all your cans and has no way to hide it. I have about 300 cans in my corp hanger filled wiht fittings for ships I sell. Which makes browsing through input a bit tedious to say the least.
Speaking of input and output, why isnt this defaulted to where the blueprint is located at? Would make alot more sense

When searching for blueprints in the science window it lists all cans you have in your hangars with blueprints in them, but doesnt actully tell their name, so you have no clue which can you are selecting.

When searching for blueprints missing the option to filter BPO's or BPC's. Just a small number diffrence between BPO's and BPC's will result in accidents. Having the big icons is simply not viable because you can then only see 5 bpo's at once.

There is no indication of how multiple run bonus is affecting your material use

When a job ifinishes while you are on the jobs screen you can't deliver it. YOu need to close the sciene window and then


Teams:

Bidding doesnt seem to work, enter in a system name and amount and the bid option still is greyed out.

You can not sort between what a team does. I can only sort between the %number for capital components. I have to scroll through a list of TE reducing teams befor i can find a team I am interested in that reduces ME.


And final one that was kinda game breaking:

When delivering my jobs that where done(about 100 of them), the UI did not like it at all, freaked out here and there and I actully ended up with no build items in the end.

Vits s
VooDoo Warriors
#191 - 2014-06-27 12:14:14 UTC
outpost built on nothing is being built.

"The selected facility is no longer aviable"
Alexander McKeon
Perkone
Caldari State
#192 - 2014-06-28 08:42:41 UTC
Something seems to be very wonky with large runs; I queued up a 6k unit run of quantum microprocessors, and was informed that I would need less than 2k nanotransistors to build them, and in a much shorter time than on TQ.
Laendra
Universalis Imperium
Goonswarm Federation
#193 - 2014-06-28 13:54:01 UTC
Multiple runs over 10

Okay, I was just testing the manufacturing at some Component Assembly Arrays. While trying to produce multiple runs, if I types the number of runs I wanted, say 75, it would only install 7. If I used the mouse-wheel to spin the number up, it worked fine (installed all 75 runs).
Regan Rotineque
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2014-06-28 15:23:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Regan Rotineque
UI Comments

1 - I made this comment before but after playing around again today I make it again - the big circle thing to manufacture stuff is confusing and not very intuitive. A plus and minus key next to the "job runs" is needed - i find using the circle thing to be confusing and difficult to use - its also not accurate if your only doing partial runs from a BPC and then requires that you type in the total that you need.

2 - When i 'use' the blueprint and have all the stuff assembled the "START" button stays orange - which is odd since i would think that "RED" means you can't do this..."ORANGE" means you can but dont have the stuff/isk.....and "GREEN" would be go go go......


3 - Under the facitilites tab you see a list of the different facilities....one of the columns is "SYSTEM COST INDEX" however there is no hover over - no value associated with this column except "it gets filled with more color" as the system get's busier. My question is why not give us the value ? Why not show us what the actual figure used to calculate is here ? Seems rather daft to me that in a game as detailed and precise as EvE is, that this is obfuscated.

4 - You can accidentily hit enter on the keyboard and it installs the jobs - no sober second thought pop up - no summarzied window telling you "You are installing X runs @ x ISK for X time" I find this a bit dangerous since after typing 10 runs on a BPO i hit enter simply by accident thinking it would take me to the next field or simply move the cursor - instead it installs the job - bad imho.


Manufacturing Comments:

1 - I went to make some fuel blocks - 300 runs from a BPC - its now taking 2 DAYS to make them where on TQ it takes 9hrs. The build time on SiSi is 10 minutes per run on TQ its 2 minutes per run. Did I miss this memo? I dont remember reading about changes in build times anywhere.
Jinn Aideron
#195 - 2014-06-28 15:25:36 UTC
Most informative view is hidden in a tooltip

I'm a bit puzzled that the best information on a manufacturing job you can get in the current state, is hidden away in a tooltip on the off-center-left 'chevron'. While the left-side icon view, which admittedly must have been a pain to implement!, does not provide the best information in plain sight.

Such as it is, it looks nice, it's instructive for someone never before confronted with industry, but the information for a real manufacturing job needs you hovering over something. Shocked

Yes, you can mousewheel adjust runs on the fly with the tooltip open, even though the tooltip is bugged on updating information accordingly. Yes, the materials list could be very long, the icon grid takes up the least space.

I understand the above, but it's still a strange development outcome to have the quintessential facts in a tooltip, and the sparesly informative eye candy being the default view.


BP table filters and sorting

  • You have a very powerful Advanced Asset Search! Cannibalize it, re-use it, re-imagine it! I tried to see how my BPOs' MEs fared with conversion, but even this simple thing you cannot do now.*
  • A secondary sorting column would help with (*), but would carry only so far. The TQ asset search with syntax just blows other approaches out of the water.

Stealth deletes are bad.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#196 - 2014-06-30 03:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
so if i understand this correctly CCP wants to encourage longer jobs (build multiple ships) via reduced costs. However this only really works if you are using BPOs, right? I mean if i want to build 20 slicers i have 20x 1 run BPCs and run into the worst case scenario.

Are there any plans to be able to concatenate several BPCs into one long job? Otherwise i don't really see why the cost reduction based on job length is there in the first place. I bet most jobs are run from BPCs and not BPOs.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Qmamoto Kansuke
Killing with pink power
Penguins with lasorz
#197 - 2014-06-30 07:56:53 UTC
-There should not be any lag(delay) when browsing 20000+ blueprints to manufacture.
Sable Moran
Moran Light Industries
#198 - 2014-06-30 11:11:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Sable Moran
Had finally some time to fiddle with the new UI on Sisi today (Yay for summer vacationCool). Some quick observations.

1. Finding blueprints is painful, to make it better I suggest:
- make the pulldown menu where containers appear (the right most) sorted alphabetically
- make the BP list follow the sorting order that the container they reside in has active (i.e. by name or by type)

2. The order the minerals are listed at the left hand side of the UI changes randomly if not all eight types of minerals are used, this is a bit annoying.

3. When I looked for new amounts of minerals required to manufacture an item (any item) I found three different places all of them with different numbers.

- blueprint info -> bill of materials -> manufacturing (highest number, I guess non researched values and no skills considered)
- blueprint info -> industry (numbers only slighly (1%) smaller. (What is this, I don't even....)
- manufacturing UI (lowest number, takes into account skills etc.)

Only the last one shows the correct numbers, this is quite confusing. Is the industry tab supposed to show values affected by skills and implants and other character dependent stuff? If so it doesn't work.

4. The order of the minerals in the list is different for each location they are listed, First three minerals for Corax in each location:

-manufacturing tab: Isogen, Megacyte, Mexallon
-industry tab: Tritanium, Pyerite, Mexallon
-manufacturing UI: Zydrine, Nocxium, Isogen

Should be the same in every location, right?

5. 'JOB RUNS' field. If I type quickly the 'outcome', 'job duration' and 'total job cost' fields do not update correctly. I guess key presses are dropped somewhere. This does not happen if I put a small value there, single digit or two digits, maybe three digits but cannot confirm. Four or more digits and it happens.

EDIT:

6. Could we please have the ability to change the order of the columns in the jobs tab. There are columns that, to me, are quite irrelevant (Jumps, Security, Inventory location, Installer) and I'd like to be able to groups the relevant columns together. Mind you this is partially mitigated by the fact that the UI seems to remember if I adjust the width of the columns. But only partially. I guess this functionality might be useful for the other tabs in the Industry UI too.

7. The upper part of the UI is quite large, would it be possible to squeeze it a bit?

8. When making blueprint copies changing the number value in the 'Runs per Copy' field does not update output values.

9. When I enter a number in the 'Runs per Copy' field, then roll the mouse wheel the focus changes to the 'Job Runs' field and the number in that field changes. This does not happen if I have the mouse cursor strictly over the 'Runs per Copy' field.

Sable's Ammo Shop at Alentene V - Moon 4 - Duvolle Labs Factory. Hybrid charges, Projectile ammo, Missiles, Drones, Ships, Need'em? We have'em, at affordable prices. Pop in at our Ammo Shop in sunny Alentene.
Magic Crisp
Amarrian Micro Devices
#199 - 2014-06-30 17:24:29 UTC
I would like to give a little feedback regarding the new S&I stuff, on a first glance bases:

When I open S&I and switch to facilities, we could use way more filters, especially:
- System name
- region
- Jump ranges

If standings matter in the installation cost, then owner as well.

Also, showing the range that I have skills for would also be useful.

The cross-region stuff doesn't seem to be working correctly. In lowsec I could see a single a single 00 outpost's facilities'. When jumping over to the 00 region, i could see the whole region's facilities.

When there are some cans in a corphangar, the S&I/blueprints tab's 3rd dropdown lists the division's name multiple times. There should be some indication which one is referring to which container.

When I switch input division for a manufacturing job, it takes quite a while for the mineral input "meter" to notice there are actually minerals for the job

After clicking "deliver all jobs" many of the jobs stay there with the "deliver" button blinking, but when i press it, the error message says: "The job cannot be completed as it has already completed."

At S&I/blueprints/facility list dropdown could use some ABC ordering.

Material Efficiency doesn't seem to be taken into account. ME10 BPO says +10% waste factor.

On the S&I/Blueprints tab, it might be useful to be able to sort by item group or category.

When selecting a decryptor for an invention, the bubble listing the alternatives could have a mouse-over bubble telling the given decryptor's properties.

Listing BPs which are currently being used by jobs using a different shade is a good idea, please keep that :)

After repeated installations it memorizes the input/output divisions among other things. However, it's a real pain that i _always_ have to set the divisions every time. Probably many corporations have a dedicated division for manufacturing, and if that's not the 1st one in the list, then it has to be set every time a new job is installed. Please keep the feature where we are able to set default divisions (currently it remembers the last divisions used). Please, add a settings tab, with the options for selecting default divisions for different kind of jobs.

When clicking on a missing prereq for manufacturing it, it switches to that BP, however the amount is not set, but it should be. So, when job says, i'm missing 50 "nanomechanical microprocessors", and i click on that to make some of it, i'd expect the UI to default it to 50 as well.

PLEASE! give me default divisions, it already drives me crazy.

I've been clicking around on the window, and the "job duration" keeps staying 37m34s for all number of runs (1 to 10, maxruns on this bpc). Think it's a bug.

Please time write with dimensions. Numbers alone have no meaning. Instead of 01:02:03:04 just do 01d 02h 03m 04s, it makes way more sense.

The details/list is kinda strange. I'd expect the "details" to be fancy, and the "list" to be effective. That is, please write numbers on the list view instead of colored bars.

Please allow us to set default divisions. Having to select the proper input division after every click is just annoying...

Hope that helped somewhat.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#200 - 2014-06-30 18:38:30 UTC
Hi everyone,

We've finally tracked down and (internally) killed an issue with T2 build requirements having too much T1 stuff in them, due to a misunderstanding of the weirdness of the "recycled" flag. I'm going to verify it's all good tomorrow and then submit it. Entirely my fault, nothing to do with Nullarbor who I may have mistakenly fingered as the culprit earlier :)

-Greyscale