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Kronos or Paladin
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Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-06-25 14:22:20 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:

three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.


Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#22 - 2014-06-25 15:13:25 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.


Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course.

there is no good reason to shoot angels in the first place, then there is no good reason to let them come close enough to orbit (that's what your mwd is for). lastly, if you find yourself in a situation where your target is orbiting you, all you have to do is click 'keep at distance' to reduce angular velocity.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#23 - 2014-06-25 15:34:58 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.


Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course.

there is no good reason to shoot angels in the first place, then there is no good reason to let them come close enough to orbit (that's what your mwd is for). lastly, if you find yourself in a situation where your target is orbiting you, all you have to do is click 'keep at distance' to reduce angular velocity.

Well if you're going to be brawling at close range with a paladin but not ever using bastion and also not shooting angels in the first place because you never pick up angels missions and simultaneously still shooting angels because you're addressing my point....

Then I don't understand the situation but it sounds like a moving goalpost to me. I'd rather just be at MJD range and blow everything away instantly with my volleys without having to use a MWD ever, but whatever.
Chris Thiesere
IonTek LLC
#24 - 2014-06-25 17:11:09 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.


Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course.


Trade one TC for a web and you will hit them without a problem.
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-06-25 21:32:53 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.


Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course.

there is no good reason to shoot angels in the first place, then there is no good reason to let them come close enough to orbit (that's what your mwd is for). lastly, if you find yourself in a situation where your target is orbiting you, all you have to do is click 'keep at distance' to reduce angular velocity.

Well if you're going to be brawling at close range with a paladin but not ever using bastion and also not shooting angels in the first place because you never pick up angels missions and simultaneously still shooting angels because you're addressing my point....

Then I don't understand the situation but it sounds like a moving goalpost to me. I'd rather just be at MJD range and blow everything away instantly with my volleys without having to use a MWD ever, but whatever.


- pointing out the flaws in your argument has nothing to do with shifting the goal post
- you still have to use an mwd to get to gates in every other mission, might as well use it to not have to waste a mid slot on an mjd
- show me where i said i never use bastion

I should buy an Ishtar.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#26 - 2014-06-25 21:58:32 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
Daniel Plain wrote:

three TCs with tracking scripts will have you reliably hit anything that is not an orbiting frigate, especially if you use gleam. no need to waste eight seconds to jump outside of high damage crystal range only to then have to jump back.


Even with gleam, perfect tracking speed skills and 3 TCs the very close orbiting angels are still impossible to hit in my experience. With Tachs. The point is to jump so that nothing ever gets into orbit range in the first place. Anything in targeting range (113km) is able to be hit with ~900 DPS gamma and anything within ~80km is in range of Multifrequency. Assuming paladin, of course.

there is no good reason to shoot angels in the first place, then there is no good reason to let them come close enough to orbit (that's what your mwd is for). lastly, if you find yourself in a situation where your target is orbiting you, all you have to do is click 'keep at distance' to reduce angular velocity.

Well if you're going to be brawling at close range with a paladin but not ever using bastion and also not shooting angels in the first place because you never pick up angels missions and simultaneously still shooting angels because you're addressing my point....

Then I don't understand the situation but it sounds like a moving goalpost to me. I'd rather just be at MJD range and blow everything away instantly with my volleys without having to use a MWD ever, but whatever.


- pointing out the flaws in your argument has nothing to do with shifting the goal post
- you still have to use an mwd to get to gates in every other mission, might as well use it to not have to waste a mid slot on an mjd
- show me where i said i never use bastion

-eh
-I never do fit a MWD because MJD is incredibly versatile and accel gates actually have a 30km diameter and the only way to miss one is by intention or not knowing what you're doing
-the part where you said frigates and transversal. Its not really compatible with bastion.
-
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#27 - 2014-06-26 08:15:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniel Plain
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
-I never do fit a MWD because MJD is incredibly versatile and accel gates actually have a 30km diameter and the only way to miss one is by intention or not knowing what you're doing

unless the gate is between 70 and 130km away (i cannot recall any mission where this is the case), you will need two jumps to reach it. in the 86 seconds it would take you to do that, you could slowboat roughly 15km, even without an mwd, all the while shooting inmf or gleam instead of downgrading to lower damage crystals.

Quote:
-the part where you said frigates and transversal. Its not really compatible with bastion.

please present a valid and sound argument that demonstrates how using the words 'frigates' and 'transversal' implies that i never activate the bastion module.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-06-26 11:16:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Hakaari Inkuran
Daniel Plain wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
-I never do fit a MWD because MJD is incredibly versatile and accel gates actually have a 30km diameter and the only way to miss one is by intention or not knowing what you're doing

unless the gate is between 70 and 130km away (i cannot recall any mission where this is the case), you will need two jumps to reach it. in the 86 seconds it would take you to do that, you could slowboat roughly 15km, even without an mwd, all the while shooting inmf or gleam instead of downgrading to lower damage crystals.

Quote:
-the part where you said frigates and transversal. Its not really compatible with bastion.

please present a valid and sound argument that demonstrates how using the words 'frigates' and 'transversal' implies that i never activate the bastion module.

There's nothing wrong with me shooting while waiting out a MJD timer. I don't know why you think I can't. The second part was sarcasm, no need for your panties to get in a bunch. However I'm just going to point out managing transversal still means many shots will miss since pirates generally will not oblige to head straight for you unless they are at a very large distance from you. They fly at an angle to aim for an orbit just like player ships do when you hit "orbit".

And besides, if you're dealing with webbing frigates your prop mod will be completely negated with just a small number. Its simpler just to MJD to a nice position 80 to 120 km from the gate and pop any annoying frigates instantly.
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#29 - 2014-06-26 12:02:19 UTC
I've found that trying to explain how to fly the new marauders efficiently to certain pilots is like trying to describe the colour blue to someone that has willfully walked their entire life with yellow tinted glasses.

they just cant seem to get out of the self induced rut they ended up in. it is best to give these guys their Machariel and let them be.

I've found a similar thing with some rattler pilots as well. people just can not seem to be able to adapt and so they will be left behind with their archaic way of thinking.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#30 - 2014-06-26 12:07:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Anize Oramara
double post

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Daniel Plain
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-06-26 13:35:40 UTC
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
There's nothing wrong with me shooting while waiting out a MJD timer. I don't know why you think I can't.

i never said that you cannot shoot while waiting for the mjd. please stop creating straw men. i did say however that using the mjd will force you to sacrifice dps, which is true unless the rats happen to be in inmf range after the first jump (and in sufficient number to justify a minute's worth of dps).

Quote:
The second part was sarcasm, no need for your panties to get in a bunch.
once you press people on their bullshit, it turns out they were joking, funny how that goes. something about shifting goal posts, too...

Quote:
However I'm just going to point out managing transversal still means many shots will miss since pirates generally will not oblige to head straight for you unless they are at a very large distance from you. They fly at an angle to aim for an orbit just like player ships do when you hit "orbit".

the damage loss from angular velocity is minuscule, unless the ship is actually in or close to its orbit. you can easily see for yourself, if you add the angular velocity tab to your overview. most of the time, the number will read 0.00x.

Quote:
And besides, if you're dealing with webbing frigates your prop mod will be completely negated with just a small number. Its simpler just to MJD to a nice position 80 to 120 km from the gate and pop any annoying frigates instantly.

so now we are down to the extreme corner case where you warp into webbing frigates while the next gate is far away. i can only recall two instances where this happens, and both can be easily handled by a set of light drones while i shoot bigger targets.

I should buy an Ishtar.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-06-26 13:47:55 UTC
Daniel Plain wrote:
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:
There's nothing wrong with me shooting while waiting out a MJD timer. I don't know why you think I can't.

i never said that you cannot shoot while waiting for the mjd. please stop creating straw men. i did say however that using the mjd will force you to sacrifice dps, which is true unless the rats happen to be in inmf range after the first jump (and in sufficient number to justify a minute's worth of dps).

Quote:
The second part was sarcasm, no need for your panties to get in a bunch.
once you press people on their bullshit, it turns out they were joking, funny how that goes. something about shifting goal posts, too...

Quote:
However I'm just going to point out managing transversal still means many shots will miss since pirates generally will not oblige to head straight for you unless they are at a very large distance from you. They fly at an angle to aim for an orbit just like player ships do when you hit "orbit".

the damage loss from angular velocity is minuscule, unless the ship is actually in or close to its orbit. you can easily see for yourself, if you add the angular velocity tab to your overview. most of the time, the number will read 0.00x.

Quote:
And besides, if you're dealing with webbing frigates your prop mod will be completely negated with just a small number. Its simpler just to MJD to a nice position 80 to 120 km from the gate and pop any annoying frigates instantly.

so now we are down to the extreme corner case where you warp into webbing frigates while the next gate is far away. i can only recall two instances where this happens, and both can be easily handled by a set of light drones while i shoot bigger targets.

On the contrary, once a rat is within 30 km you will start finding that hitting the darn things starts to become quite a problem as the transversal is definitively nonzero at that point. Anything at 100km can be hit by gamma rather easily which is only a slight loss which is made up for by the fact that your tracking is essentially perfect. Anything within 80 is in range for INMF. Frankly I'd rather not deal with the headache of launching and recalling drones to escape frigates when I have the option of jumping away from the frigates. Especially when the second option gets rid of the buggers faster.
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