These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
123Next page
 

Caldari needs nerfing... Again.

Author
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2014-06-24 23:10:49 UTC
Hello there.
This has been going on for far too long... You have to agree with me on that whenever anybody talks about the T3 cruisers, everybody suggest one using the Tengu... or when doing level 4 missions, everybody suggest using the Golem.

These missile boats have become overpowered and completely overshadow every other race ships. The same goes for Pirate factions, the Nightmare is close to useless compared to the Vindicator or the Machariel.

It seems to me that Caldari has been "owning" the universe of New Eden for quite too long.
I think one of the best examples of how overpowered the Tengu is, is by showing it with HAM missiles where it hits over the 900 dps, which can only be matched with a Battleship. A cruiser doing more damage than a BS, how pathetic is that?

Now, Amarr could live in peace with their own PVE, if the Pirate factions like Guristas and Serpentis wasn't so ridicously strong in EM and Thermal damage, and I seriously mean ridicously strong... Especially in The Assault and Dread Pirate Scarlett where it's close to impossible for Amarr battleships to break their tank without sacrificing too much of their own tank for dmg mods.
Now I could just choose not to do it... Sure, but that would create an imbalance where it's easier for Caldari to do it, making it easier for them to earn isk than everyone else.

Beside this, Caldari has always been able to keep up their dps without sacrificing tank for dps, which is also a problem that needs fixing or balancing.

I think this is a urgent problem in the world of PVE that needs adressing relatively soon. Of all the races, Amarr are the ones who has the biggest challenge in PVE. Amarr ships has to sacrifice a great deal of tank to keep up dps, unlike Caldari who got their fancy invulability modules.

Thanks in advance
Regards
Celthric
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#2 - 2014-06-24 23:29:09 UTC
Feeling a little bit of bias here, and feeling offended as a pilot who prefers Amarr.

I have a friend who uses a 950 DPS Legion in Incursions. Pimped to almighty hell, but so is that 900 DPS Tengu, and guess which one is better at damage projection?

PvE is a very small concern for BS balance. If their PvP balance isn't given priority you end up with situations like the Domi being the de-facto I-Win subcap meta in null.

Gallente trades tank for DPS also, you racist?

Caldari trades tank for efficacy in PvP. They have to fit tackle or be no threat to anyone, that's two slots gone as soon as you say "I want to shoot another player" and they have the option to trade tank for damage application by using TP's. Gallente and Amarr boats can use tracking computers without sacrificing tank (If you're still trying to shield tank and use tracking computers in a minny ship, then I hope that works out well for you).

It's just.... Ehhh....

Could you learn to fly the ships before you embarrass our entire race?

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#3 - 2014-06-24 23:31:42 UTC
My tengu does 780 dps with just RLML. That's nearly perfect application against any ship bigger than a destroyer FYI, no losses anywhere.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#4 - 2014-06-24 23:33:47 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:


Could you learn to fly the ships before you embarrass our entire race?


Hailing from the allied state of the Amarr Master Race™, I support this message.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#5 - 2014-06-24 23:35:23 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
My tengu does 780 dps with just RLML. That's nearly perfect application against any ship bigger than a destroyer FYI, no losses anywhere.


Now add your reload time, and recalculate the DPS.

Also, and not as a point of contention in the discussion but just because I simply don't know, what's the effective range of RLML's in a properly fit Tengu?

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#6 - 2014-06-24 23:53:06 UTC
...OP, are you trolling?


Has anyone actually seen a caldari ship bigger than a frigate in a PVP gang lately?
Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#7 - 2014-06-24 23:55:37 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
My tengu does 780 dps with just RLML. That's nearly perfect application against any ship bigger than a destroyer FYI, no losses anywhere.


Now add your reload time, and recalculate the DPS.

Also, and not as a point of contention in the discussion but just because I simply don't know, what's the effective range of RLML's in a properly fit Tengu?


Seriously go read the RLML thread, I'm not crossposting that information again. I already worked it out and in quite a bit of detail.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#8 - 2014-06-24 23:58:33 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
...OP, are you trolling?


Has anyone actually seen a caldari ship bigger than a frigate in a PVP gang lately?


I see Caracals running RLML's on a fairly regular basis. Shot at a full tank-fitted drake a while back who just sat there and soaked up all of my love until I got bored and left. Whenever I see a Falcon on D-scan I don't wait to see who else is with him, and I was in Gonditsa last night watching some Rokh's set up for the standard gate camp.

So yeah, you still see Caldari ships in PvP gangs.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#9 - 2014-06-25 00:02:12 UTC
If you think Caldari is OP you're sadly mistaken, Caldari is in a decent place right now, but HAMs and HMs suck bigtime, RLML are decent, but the reload time is very limiting for solo and small gangs. FoTM right now is Gallente, or more specifically Ishtars.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#10 - 2014-06-25 00:12:18 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
My tengu does 780 dps with just RLML. That's nearly perfect application against any ship bigger than a destroyer FYI, no losses anywhere.


Now add your reload time, and recalculate the DPS.

Also, and not as a point of contention in the discussion but just because I simply don't know, what's the effective range of RLML's in a properly fit Tengu?


Seriously go read the RLML thread, I'm not crossposting that information again. I already worked it out and in quite a bit of detail.


You mean the same posts stating that RLML's need to be buffed?

Great, now add some context and explain in what way this number 780 is significant to the discussion, since you seem to be saying one thing in another thread than what you are implying here.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Meandering Milieu
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-06-25 00:17:13 UTC
Can't say I know the feeling.

#GallenteMasterRace #DroneSwag #CalPlebs
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2014-06-25 00:20:17 UTC
Bohneik Itohn wrote:
Feeling a little bit of bias here, and feeling offended as a pilot who prefers Amarr.

I have a friend who uses a 950 DPS Legion in Incursions. Pimped to almighty hell, but so is that 900 DPS Tengu, and guess which one is better at damage projection?

PvE is a very small concern for BS balance. If their PvP balance isn't given priority you end up with situations like the Domi being the de-facto I-Win subcap meta in null.

Gallente trades tank for DPS also, you racist?

Caldari trades tank for efficacy in PvP. They have to fit tackle or be no threat to anyone, that's two slots gone as soon as you say "I want to shoot another player" and they have the option to trade tank for damage application by using TP's. Gallente and Amarr boats can use tracking computers without sacrificing tank (If you're still trying to shield tank and use tracking computers in a minny ship, then I hope that works out well for you).

It's just.... Ehhh....

Could you learn to fly the ships before you embarrass our entire race?


In this post I'm talking primary towards PVE. While Amarr trades tank for dps, Caldari doesn't trade anything for dps or tank. Besides that their Invulability field is overpowered compared to that of omni armor tanking.

"Could you learn to fly the ships before you embarrass our entire race?" All my gunnery support skills are V except Surgical Strike, and my Amarr BS skill is V as well. Also I ask you, how much tank does that Legion have?

Danika, I'm not trolling.

I think Caldari are far from balanced compared to that of Gallente and Amarr ships who are stuck with two damage types.

Bohneik Itohn, Amarr ships do incredibly low damage towards Guristas and Serpentis, but of course it rips Blood Raiders and Sansha apart easily... I find it unfair how difficult Guristas and Serpentis are to kill compared to the other private factions.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2014-06-25 00:27:44 UTC
Have you considered going to run your silly little missions for someone else, where you can fight rats who aren't serpantis or guristas?

Caldari trades tank for utility. Webs, points, propmods, painters, damps, ECM, sebos...need I go on?

Shield and armour tanking are different animals. Please don't embarass yourself by comparing the two.

Please realise that misison balance and PVP balance are different things. Caldari missile boats, while they may be fine for misisons, are not in a good place for PVP combat. Nerfing them further is not a good idea. HMLs certainly need a buff, but I admit I've never really used HAMs, so can't really comment.


(Also, your 900 DPS tengu can be outdone by Legion and Proteus setups pretty easily. Also Brutix/Talos/Naga. And Ishtars can get pretty damn close. 900 DPS from a sub BS ship is really not that impressive.)
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2014-06-25 00:38:00 UTC
Since we are rebalancing ships based off PVE can we go ahead and rebalance my dread for this role as well? Would like massive tracking bonus in siege please.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#15 - 2014-06-25 00:39:11 UTC
The Golem is the best for L4s, and that's your argument?

No **** missiles are good for PvE. Thankfully there's quite a bit more to the game than PvE, and even more thankfully the game isn't balanced around PvE capabilities.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Caleb Seremshur
Mortis Angelus
The morgue.
#16 - 2014-06-25 00:39:44 UTC
HAMs work well on cerbs due to the disgustingly high ranges. 58km with rage iirc. Missiles are like a support weapon in a manner of speaking, you send in vagabond to hard tackle and then pelt to death with cerbs.
Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#17 - 2014-06-25 00:47:33 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:

In this post I'm talking primary towards PVE. While Amarr trades tank for dps, Caldari doesn't trade anything for dps or tank. Besides that their Invulability field is overpowered compared to that of omni armor tanking.

"Could you learn to fly the ships before you embarrass our entire race?" All my gunnery support skills are V except Surgical Strike, and my Amarr BS skill is V as well. Also I ask you, how much tank does that Legion have?

Danika, I'm not trolling.

I think Caldari are far from balanced compared to that of Gallente and Amarr ships who are stuck with two damage types.

Bohneik Itohn, Amarr ships do incredibly low damage towards Guristas and Serpentis, but of course it rips Blood Raiders and Sansha apart easily... I find it unfair how difficult Guristas and Serpentis are to kill compared to the other private factions.


Some Caldari pilots would argue that the Reactive Armor Hardener is OP compared to... Well... Anything shield tanking has to offer. That's why they show up in this very forum on a regular basis asking for a shield variety of the same module.

Training time has nothing to do with this conversation, it's your personal experience and ability to fit and use the ships appropriately that have an impact.

The Legion apparently has enough tank to survive the 13,000 DPS PvE volleys that can be found in Incursions, because the good fella has yet to lose one. But that's with Logi. If I wanted to re-fit the same ship for missioning I'd just put dual T2 reps on it for 1200 armor repaired every 9 second cycle, a single EANM and a thermal trimark rig and call it a day.

Having the two damage types balances out the fact that Amarr uses crystals, plain and simple. Crystals are amazing, they are arguably the best ammo type in Eve, so just step away from that discussion before it even starts.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Adunh Slavy
#18 - 2014-06-25 00:51:00 UTC
You can, ya know, fly Caldari ships for rat bashing. Also, there is no rule that says you can't switch ships to go after different kinds of rats. You change your hardners for specific rats types don't ya? A ship is not much different.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Bohneik Itohn
10.K
#19 - 2014-06-25 00:52:20 UTC
Adunh Slavy wrote:
You can, ya know, fly Caldari ships for rat bashing. Also, there is no rule that says you can't switch ships to go after different kinds of rats. You change your hardners for specific rats types don't ya? A ship is not much different.


Nah, he mentioned Omni tanking, which is part of his problem.

Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!  - Freyya

Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help.

Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#20 - 2014-06-25 01:38:26 UTC
So wait.. all those times I saw people saying that the Vargur is the king of mission ships, they were actually typoing "Golem" very badly?
123Next page