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Restrict NPC Corporation Posting Abilities.

First post First post
Author
Tracy Smith
Doomheim
#741 - 2014-06-21 12:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tracy Smith
La Nariz wrote:
Tracy Smith wrote:
The solo PVE players outnumber the rest of the community by 4 to 1. I don't have the info on the proportion of those players who remain in their NPC corps but I'm going to assume it's the majority, or at least a significant minority. I hope CCP isn't dumb enough to deny access to their forums to such a large proportion of their customers.



Solo players also are far more likely to leave the game and such it's in CCP's best interest to encourage them to join player corporations. I wouldn't assume anything and the more advantages afforded to player corporations over npc corporations the better. Remember it could be far worse than this for NPC corporations we've had probably 40% of the posters in this thread advocating for their outright removal.


Those 40% of solo PVE players are what remains after the initial 50% of paying subscribers quit after a couple of months, so there's no financial incentive to entice players out of NPC corps.

What incentive is there for a solo PVE player to leave an NPC corps? Get wardecced? They just want to log in, do their own thing without any obligations to a group and log off again. There's no reason for them to leave their NPC corp. They still get all the gameplay and social interaction they want. There are 300+ people online in my NPC corp and over 400 in the help channel. How many people online in the average corp?

Anyway, this thread is just an extension of the PVP in EVE.
ISD Decoy
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#742 - 2014-06-21 13:31:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Decoy
A few off topic and highly inappropriate posts have been removed.

Quote:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

3. Ranting is prohibited.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.

7. Use of profanity is prohibited.

Please stay on topic and be respectful of others.

Thanks!

ISD Decoy

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#743 - 2014-06-21 16:55:19 UTC
ISD Decoy wrote:
A few off topic and highly inappropriate posts have been removed.

Quote:
2. Be respectful toward others at all times.

3. Ranting is prohibited.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

6. Racism and discrimination are prohibited.

7. Use of profanity is prohibited.

Please stay on topic and be respectful of others.

Thanks!


While you're here what do you think of my suggestion?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#744 - 2014-06-24 15:29:08 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:

My comparison wasn't opinion based, but based upon the idea that when you said there should be forum restrictions like in game ones that you intended equivalency, which that was, rather than creating an arbitrary restriction point on the forums which in reality had no in game peer. I suppose it is rendered moot but that is because as stated, arbitrary break points are arbitrary. Still, that leaves the burden of proof on you.

So we come down to which is more important, content or numbers. I'd argue the nature of the game leans in the direction of content.

You haven't defined essential, but you called them essential. I sought to demonstrate that they don't fit the definition of the word from the standpoint of an individual player or the forums as a whole. I am aware of why you propose those sections, though that doesn't make them essential unless you are working under a different definition.

Actually no, I don't, not fully.

Particularly I find it odd that you would restrict a class of player from posting about the game in general and refining their views based upon high level community feedback, but for some reason expect that same person to be able to generate good suggestions for the game and give valid well reasoned feedback for proposed changes.

The rest I get, but that amounts to basically giving the finger to those who actually choose live in NPC corps since not a single other subforum you would allow is of any use to them.


It was you are asserting that restricting npc corporation members to rookie ships is the same thing as restricting their posting which is an opinion. I countered that with a different opinion which is more accurate because you are restricting where a npc alt can do something not forcing them to only be able to do one thing.

If history an example are worth anything numbers tops quality which is basically what content boils down to. However this is debatable because you have people like James 315 that is one person providing large amounts of quality content for hundreds and then you have people like skirmish commanders that are many people providing smaller amounts of less quality content (restricted to strat ops only). You could argue either way and have a case.

Community feedback means nothing when there is no consequence for your actions as can be seen by the voluminous amounts of npc alts in the first 3 pages of GD.

Perhaps there needs to be a dedicated NPC corporation member forum then and they can all be restricted to only that forum?

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#745 - 2014-06-24 15:34:12 UTC
Tracy Smith wrote:

Those 40% of solo PVE players are what remains after the initial 50% of paying subscribers quit after a couple of months, so there's no financial incentive to entice players out of NPC corps.

What incentive is there for a solo PVE player to leave an NPC corps? Get wardecced? They just want to log in, do their own thing without any obligations to a group and log off again. There's no reason for them to leave their NPC corp. They still get all the gameplay and social interaction they want. There are 300+ people online in my NPC corp and over 400 in the help channel. How many people online in the average corp?

Anyway, this thread is just an extension of the PVP in EVE.


CCP never gave any data that specifically indicated that bolded part.

You hit on the problem that deserves its own thread, player corporations need to be more attractive than NPC corporations. However that is a pro to this suggestion it makes player corporations more attractive. If you weight the risk and reward then find that not worth the risk its your own decision.

Its hard for me to quantify your last question because we have maybe 200 online in GoonWaffe at any time but, we have jabber and can get tonnes of people from a single broadcast. Those people are idle/doing other things and will log in to do things if there's a call but, not idle in-game, if we include them its probably near 5-600 people at any time.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#746 - 2014-06-24 15:37:42 UTC
This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#747 - 2014-06-24 15:45:02 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls?


Yes basically that's what the last 5 or so pages of debate has been about. The unfortunate 1% that will be caught while the 99% of garbage is removed. It was already judged to be appropriate and effective as can be seen by CAOD rules being in place for so long.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#748 - 2014-06-24 17:46:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Rift
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls?



If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another.



As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training?

forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock.
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#749 - 2014-06-24 17:53:13 UTC  |  Edited by: La Nariz
Lady Rift wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls?



If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another.



As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training?

forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock.


We've been over it already but, the short of it is that its working as intended. Its not supposed to be a herculean effort and it worked for CAOD. This is only part of the solution not a silver bullet. It will accomplish its purpose which is reduction of trolling and improvement of forum quality.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#750 - 2014-06-24 18:20:57 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls?



If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another.



As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training?

forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock.


We've been over it already but, the short of it is that its working as intended. Its not supposed to be a herculean effort and it worked for CAOD. This is only part of the solution not a silver bullet. It will accomplish its purpose which is reduction of trolling and improvement of forum quality.



it seams like no effort at all which is why I'm questioning if it work at all
Chewytowel Haklar
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#751 - 2014-06-24 18:23:58 UTC
I thought the Goons were known as the biggest trolls in the game, and they are not only in a corporation but also a rather established alliance. I'm suspecting that this is in itself a carefully orchestrated troll against those who choose to stay in npc corps in fact. Or perhaps a covert attempt at attacking carebear players. It would not surprise me considering there are many that hate them and even wish to hunt them down and make their lives miserable.

This could also put more of them in a corporation that they would perhaps form/join just to retain posting privelages, but also allow them to be wardec'd to hell and back. I wonder who would be paying the wardec'er to harass them?
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#752 - 2014-06-24 18:29:20 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls?



If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another.



As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training?

forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock.


We've been over it already but, the short of it is that its working as intended. Its not supposed to be a herculean effort and it worked for CAOD. This is only part of the solution not a silver bullet. It will accomplish its purpose which is reduction of trolling and improvement of forum quality.



it seams like no effort at all which is why I'm questioning if it work at all


I happen to be in the recruitment business and can assure you its fairly difficult. We have historical evidence from CAOD showing it works.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#753 - 2014-06-24 18:30:12 UTC
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
I thought the Goons were known as the biggest trolls in the game, and they are not only in a corporation but also a rather established alliance. I'm suspecting that this is in itself a carefully orchestrated troll against those who choose to stay in npc corps in fact. Or perhaps a covert attempt at attacking carebear players. It would not surprise me considering there are many that hate them and even wish to hunt them down and make their lives miserable.

This could also put more of them in a corporation that they would perhaps form/join just to retain posting privelages, but also allow them to be wardec'd to hell and back. I wonder who would be paying the wardec'er to harass them?


Goonspiracy will get you nowhere. If you have a point rephrase it without the goonspiracy.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#754 - 2014-06-24 18:32:56 UTC
The forums would be a much better place.

The Tears Must Flow

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#755 - 2014-06-24 18:38:22 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
Chewytowel Haklar wrote:
This is my only character at the moment and it is in an NPC corp right now. So I suppose those like myself would suffer loss of privileges in order to curb the actual trolls?



If the suggestion ever comes to pass don't worry there will be plenty of player corps that require nothing from you made just to get around this restriction. If one gets war dec'ed and you wanna dodge it just join another.



As a side note: can someone tell me how any of this will stop forum alts from posting. non-npc corp 10+ members is easy to do. As its implied here that the npc alts are only for posting on the forums wont they just be able to use the buddy system to get around any requirements that the poster has to have the highest sp on the account or be the one currently training?

forum trolls wont ever be able to be hunted npc corp or not cause if that's all they do then they never undock.


We've been over it already but, the short of it is that its working as intended. Its not supposed to be a herculean effort and it worked for CAOD. This is only part of the solution not a silver bullet. It will accomplish its purpose which is reduction of trolling and improvement of forum quality.



it seams like no effort at all which is why I'm questioning if it work at all


I happen to be in the recruitment business and can assure you its fairly difficult. We have historical evidence from CAOD showing it works.



That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in.

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#756 - 2014-06-24 18:42:41 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in.


That's the entire thought process I think is going to reduce npc alt trolling "it isn't worth the effort to put this fresh alt into a 10+ man corporation to troll."

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#757 - 2014-06-24 19:43:09 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in.


That's the entire thought process I think is going to reduce npc alt trolling "it isn't worth the effort to put this fresh alt into a 10+ man corporation to troll."



if CAOD was applied to the whole forums it becomes worth the very little effort to put the alt in a corp. If the intent is to troll they will do it. What will be lost is the people who are not trolls and just like the NPC corp.
Hell this goes though I'll open my corp to allow applications , No tax all applications are approved. easy as pie. (I alone make this corp qualify for the 10 toon corp rule.)
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#758 - 2014-06-24 19:45:50 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in.


That's the entire thought process I think is going to reduce npc alt trolling "it isn't worth the effort to put this fresh alt into a 10+ man corporation to troll."



if CAOD was applied to the whole forums it becomes worth the very little effort to put the alt in a corp. If the intent is to troll they will do it. What will be lost is the people who are not trolls and just like the NPC corp.
Hell this goes though I'll open my corp to allow applications , No tax all applications are approved. easy as pie. (I alone make this corp qualify for the 10 toon corp rule.)


You're showing your lack of reading the OP, it does not apply to all forums. There's no evidence historical or otherwise that supports your claim.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133

Lady Rift
His Majesty's Privateers
#759 - 2014-06-24 20:36:24 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
Lady Rift wrote:
That's for one subsection of the forums. CAOD just isn't worth any effort to post in.


That's the entire thought process I think is going to reduce npc alt trolling "it isn't worth the effort to put this fresh alt into a 10+ man corporation to troll."



if CAOD was applied to the whole forums it becomes worth the very little effort to put the alt in a corp. If the intent is to troll they will do it. What will be lost is the people who are not trolls and just like the NPC corp.
Hell this goes though I'll open my corp to allow applications , No tax all applications are approved. easy as pie. (I alone make this corp qualify for the 10 toon corp rule.)


You're showing your lack of reading the OP, it does not apply to all forums. There's no evidence historical or otherwise that supports your claim.



Trolls will trolls. and I read the op it applies to 99% of the forums every thing but Q&A, F&I, the Bazaar and recruitment.
You claim that CAOD is better quality, no evidence of that.


from op: It is easily circumvented by players that wish to have a solo experience in EVE and wish to post via 10+ man corporations,

10 man isn't solo.

from op: It provides consequences/content for actions by exposing posters to retribution should their posts be deemed unpalatable by other players,

If someone's post is really that unpalatable that you want to take action it doesn't matter if they are an NPC corp or not.

from op: Leave newbies unaffected as they can still post questions, ideas and look for corporations

newer players are often posting more specific questions in the proper forums (skills, ships & mods and what not)
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#760 - 2014-06-24 20:40:09 UTC
Lady Rift wrote:

Trolls will trolls. and I read the op it applies to 99% of the forums every thing but Q&A, F&I, the Bazaar and recruitment.
You claim that CAOD is better quality, no evidence of that.


from op: It is easily circumvented by players that wish to have a solo experience in EVE and wish to post via 10+ man corporations,

10 man isn't solo.

from op: It provides consequences/content for actions by exposing posters to retribution should their posts be deemed unpalatable by other players,

If someone's post is really that unpalatable that you want to take action it doesn't matter if they are an NPC corp or not.

from op: Leave newbies unaffected as they can still post questions, ideas and look for corporations

newer players are often posting more specific questions in the proper forums (skills, ships & mods and what not)


If you read the OP then you wouldn't have tried to claim it covered the entirety of the forums. You can have a solo experience in any organization an NPC corporation with 1000 members isn't solo either. Yep and by concentrating them on the answers already in New Citizens its much quicker for them to get the information they need and for that forum to become of more use to newbies.

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133