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What is CCP's current stance on 'capital power projection' in EVE?
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Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#81 - 2014-06-24 16:30:52 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Sov sucks.
Power projection is not the reason.
Centralized objectives are the reason.


I was going to make some reply about goons, propaganda, control of CCP's dev's, etc, then figured "why bother?"

Power projection will be fixed when it is fixed.
seagull's graphs, charts, and comments point to some attempt at changes probably in mid / ate 2015.
Rest assured, any changes to power projection will not weaken the cartels' control of the space they currently control.


True that, when it takes longer for everyone to get from A to B we have a stagnant situation.


Moving from A to B is fine. Moving from A to Z in a few minutes is not fine.

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#82 - 2014-06-24 16:42:44 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:


Moving from A to B is fine. Moving from A to Z in a few minutes is not fine.


Why not?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
Of Montreal
Forced eXposure
#83 - 2014-06-24 17:12:51 UTC
Sounds like socialism
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#84 - 2014-06-24 17:42:31 UTC
Agreed, no magic bullets will be found to 'fix' power projection. If there was, we'd see a drastic change in the eve landscape, nothing short of a major upheaval. I'd bet CCP is trying very hard to avoid making something like that happen. We're seeing baby steps instead.

1. Warp speed changes. We have these now, and the impact was pretty significant. Moreso regarding subcaps, but again, baby steps. Smaller ships now have a farther reach, whereas the bigger ships are staying closer to home (not counting titan bridges yet).

2. Jump drive fuel consumption. This is a stealth power projection nerf. Yes you can still jump your cap fleets just like you did before, but its going to cost a lot more. While you are at it those costs are going to carry down to every ship you buy in the future, as they will all become more expensive, just as logistics costs go up. This combined by reduced freight capacity...

The costs are starting to mount. The nullsec blocs are not getting all the revenue they used to get (moon goo, drone region nerfs, etc). Even goons have had to start relying on renters to subsidize their expenses.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#85 - 2014-06-24 17:46:39 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
2. Jump drive fuel consumption. This is a stealth power projection nerf. Yes you can still jump your cap fleets just like you did before, but its going to cost a lot more.


Thing is, this isn't going to have much of an effect on the larger entities.

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BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2014-06-24 18:40:18 UTC  |  Edited by: BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

I wish CCP would nerf power projection just so we could see what new scape goat the unsuccessful and uncreative 'we're a small group' types could come up with.

You can already see what happens when power projection gets nerfed severely...
W-space is kind of the extreme opposite to the current state of power projection in k-space: no cynos and even 'gate' travel is severely restricted. (Not just the mass restrictions, but also that you can't easily travel to a specific system at any given time)

What do we have in w-space? Right! Small corporations being able to 'own' systems. Sure, the larger corporations can evict them from their system, but they usually don't. Why don't they?
Well, for one there isn't much of a reason to take systems that you are not going to use. In contrast to null sec an empty system in w-space isn't owned by anyone.
Second reason is the nerfed power projection: You can't hold large amounts of systems in w-space without spreading your forces among them - which in turn makes those systems more vulnerable. As a result you only stick to the systems that you are actually using.

I'm not saying that this extreme sort of power projection nerf would be a good thing for null, but it gives you a hint in what direction it could push null sec.

Small groups holding w-space is almost entirely due to mass restrictions. Without mass restrictions it would be very easy to move fleets around w-space as long as the hole doesn't run out of lifetime while your fleet is going through. Large groups can probe entrances as easily as small groups, and larger groups would no longer have to seed ships into holes for evictions. Without mass limits, w-space would turn into two or three giant groups fighting for control in under a month.

I don't really see much of an issue with capital power projection other than the instant nature of it. The ability to instantly turn a tackled t1 cruiser into a fleet of capitals always seemed a bit broken to me. I'm probably not the best person to be talking about sov null though, having spent almost no time there.

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2014-06-24 19:06:57 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
2. Jump drive fuel consumption. This is a stealth power projection nerf. Yes you can still jump your cap fleets just like you did before, but its going to cost a lot more.


Thing is, this isn't going to have much of an effect on the larger entities.

I'm opposed to it because I think the reasons behind it are flawed, not because I think it'll really affect me or us that much.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#88 - 2014-06-24 19:56:52 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
2. Jump drive fuel consumption. This is a stealth power projection nerf. Yes you can still jump your cap fleets just like you did before, but its going to cost a lot more.


Thing is, this isn't going to have much of an effect on the larger entities.



It will take some time. Even more if your alliance is footing the bill for SRP and cap fuel. Even with the current market fuel speculation I bet those who are paying the bills, and doing the logistics, are already worried about whats coming.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-06-24 21:41:39 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
2. Jump drive fuel consumption. This is a stealth power projection nerf. Yes you can still jump your cap fleets just like you did before, but its going to cost a lot more.


Thing is, this isn't going to have much of an effect on the larger entities.



It will take some time. Even more if your alliance is footing the bill for SRP and cap fuel. Even with the current market fuel speculation I bet those who are paying the bills, and doing the logistics, are already worried about whats coming.

I would think that fuel cost increase would hurt smaller groups that don't have entrenched supply lines more.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#90 - 2014-06-24 23:01:05 UTC
SFM Hobb3s wrote:
It will take some time. Even more if your alliance is footing the bill for SRP and cap fuel. Even with the current market fuel speculation I bet those who are paying the bills, and doing the logistics, are already worried about whats coming.


No one really cares to be perfectly honest.

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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#91 - 2014-06-25 01:38:38 UTC
I can live with it if BL has to stop hotdropping with their dreads due to the fuel costs. Sad, but live goes on, right

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
myjita
Doomheim
#92 - 2014-06-25 07:50:35 UTC  |  Edited by: myjita
Cancelled 4 accounts today.

Maybe I come back when/if this issue gets fixed :]

PS: I have no stuff to give, sorry.

PPS: What the **** am I going to do with these 8 hours a day I've just freed up ... hmm. Maybe I go outside,.
Grunanca
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#93 - 2014-06-25 10:00:22 UTC
myjita wrote:
Can someone with official CCP employee status please comment on this?

It's a major obstacle for smaller entities, not being able to at least get a foot inside the door, before getting anally enlarged.


Batphone PL/some other big entity public channel and watch watch the enemy caps go down a few minutes later.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#94 - 2014-06-25 11:49:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
IB4 Titans only can bridge xy subcaps in 10 minutes or jump drives on supers/carriers need a cool down phase after the massive gravimetric disturbance they caused during 1 Jump....

The possibilities to do a nerf of power projection mechanics in a reasonable way are endless (or bound by fictional physics laws...).

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#95 - 2014-06-25 11:51:34 UTC
myjita wrote:
Cancelled 4 accounts today.

Maybe I come back when/if this issue gets fixed :]

PS: I have no stuff to give, sorry.

PPS: What the **** am I going to do with these 8 hours a day I've just freed up ... hmm. Maybe I go outside,.


and there he goes to roll yet another forum troll char...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#96 - 2014-06-25 12:03:06 UTC
myjita wrote:
Cancelled 4 accounts today.

Maybe I come back when/if this issue gets fixed :]

PS: I have no stuff to give, sorry.

PPS: What the **** am I going to do with these 8 hours a day I've just freed up ... hmm. Maybe I go outside,.


Hard to see how any of this affects you i the 1st place, or do NPC corps have a lot of super caps power projecting all over you....
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#97 - 2014-06-25 12:09:15 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
myjita wrote:
Cancelled 4 accounts today.

Maybe I come back when/if this issue gets fixed :]

PS: I have no stuff to give, sorry.

PPS: What the **** am I going to do with these 8 hours a day I've just freed up ... hmm. Maybe I go outside,.


and there he goes to roll yet another forum troll char...


Of course. People like 'myjita' (or anyone with Jita in their name lol) are trying to communicate, they are trying to manipulate. Hey, that rhymes !

When that manipulation doesn't work (ie they don't get this ground swell of community support they were insanely expecting), then here come the 'threats', in this case the 'threat' of CCP losing SIXTY DOLLARS of monthly income. CCP better call the world bank, get a loan to cover that SIXTY DOLLARS so we don't see This woman in Iceland asking for Donations to help homeless game developers.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#98 - 2014-06-25 12:51:34 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
myjita wrote:
Cancelled 4 accounts today.

Maybe I come back when/if this issue gets fixed :]

PS: I have no stuff to give, sorry.

PPS: What the **** am I going to do with these 8 hours a day I've just freed up ... hmm. Maybe I go outside,.


and there he goes to roll yet another forum troll char...


Of course. People like 'myjita' (or anyone with Jita in their name lol) are trying to communicate, they are trying to manipulate. Hey, that rhymes !

When that manipulation doesn't work (ie they don't get this ground swell of community support they were insanely expecting), then here come the 'threats', in this case the 'threat' of CCP losing SIXTY DOLLARS of monthly income. CCP better call the world bank, get a loan to cover that SIXTY DOLLARS so we don't see This woman in Iceland asking for Donations to help homeless game developers.


So true....
Sometimes I enter e thread and feel like I just stubled into a strange monologue where 5 different chars are controlled by one person...

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Aalysia Valkeiper
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#99 - 2014-06-25 16:45:47 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Solution:

Make High Sec claimable

Case closed


and THAT would kill the game almost immediately, since new players could no longer enter the game.

Of course, that is not important to you, since you think James 315 and his 'Now Order' are so wonderful (proving yourself a fool).
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#100 - 2014-06-25 17:30:20 UTC
Aalysia Valkeiper wrote:
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Make High Sec claimable

Case closed


and THAT would kill the game almost immediately, since new players could no longer enter the game.

Of course, that is not important to you, since you think James 315 and his 'Now Order' are so wonderful (proving yourself a fool).

that makes no sense. grr james 315

besides, the case is closed already. ramona said so.