Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I hope this doesn't mean us HQ communities won't get TCRC walls anymore lol Cause that's the type of locked I can live with :D
Then again no more TPPH walls isn't a bad thing either lol..

Everyone can be ganked while travelling, and pretty much everyone has access to the same toolbox to mitigate those risks. Ganks happen, on gates etc. but once actually in the sites with Sansha, they basically act double time as your personal bodyguards and ISK piñata. Belt rats do not protect miners.....should Sansha rats protect you?

in DED or WH sites, rats attacking invaders is absolutely fine, because there isn't a rock hard guarantee you will lose the invading ship - you can actually tank it for its intended purpose. You cannot tank CONCORD. All other higher end PvE implicitly has a risk of an invading force. Except Hisec incursions. Why do you think they should be above risk when you are making heaps of ISK?

Either disabling CONCORD responses in incursion systems, or sansha not blowing up pirates helping their cause. One of these would make incursions balanced with the rest of the game.

Problem #1: Highsec incursion sites are too predictable and can be run on (mental) autopilot, once certain guidelines are memorized.

Solution:
In each site, have a few ships that are variable, and give some of the possible ships significant encounter-altering abilities.
Perhaps one Auga Hypophysis in an OTA site has a 30% chance to instead be replaced with a Sansha heavy interdictor (minimal offensive capability, low sigrad, tank half that of a Sansha BS, and projects a 24km self-centred warp disruption bubble, which is illegal in empire space but I don't see that stopping the Sansha).
That would dramatically change the encounters. It's not about making them harder in a vacuum, but making them less predictable and less farmable when not paying close attention.
Plus, it's a possible new pirate ship if the BPC becomes available to players from rare drops or with LP. Who hasn't wanted a faction heavy interdictor to spin in station until you lose it gloriously when called primary in a 0.0 fleet fight?


Problem #2: Highsec incursions add an overly safe source of ISK into the economy.

Solution:
Review the payouts.
For the most popular incursion sites, drop them 15-20%. For the less popular ones, consider increasing the payouts.
Also, adjust the balance of ISK/LP in payouts so that the majority of the wealth created by incursions is in the form of loyalty points or other items.
In particular, this means revising the scout site payouts upwards. Make these worth doing, and make them worth fighting over.


Problem #3: Incursion runners in high security space are too safe from predatory players, compared to other similarly lucrative forms of ISK generating activities in highsec.

Solution:
Disable faction police responses to low security status players inside incursion systems.
Do not disable CONCORD, as CONCORD is the defining feature of high security space.
This would increase the ability of predatory players to interfere with incursion fleets behind acceleration gates, while still maintaining a clear distinction between lowsec and highsec. It will add additional risk to fielding super-shiny ships, to balance the rewards provided by the increased power in contests.
Incursion fleets would, of course, have the opportunity to defend themselves in PVP by shooting first (if three -9.8 Tornadoes appear on grid), or to shoot second and receive CONCORD assistance, and this would add tactical depth to FCing incursion fleets. And it may add a new potential career to EVE, one that is presently unprofitable due to the price of security tags - the highsec incursion predator, who waits on the edges of incursion sites, warps in, demands a ransom, and if it is not paid, unleashes EWAR hell to support the Sansha.
This also fits lorewise with the Sansha system control effects.


Problem #4: Sansha AI prioritizes players preying on incursion runners over the incursion runners themselves. (At least it does if the predators use EWAR, including tackle).

Solution:
Have Sansha forces operate on Not Red, Don't Shoot First (instead of 'shoot all capsuleers'), with players with standing -0.5 or worse to Sansha's Nation considered red. (Or even 'Not Blue, Shoot First' with standing +3.0 needed for blue standings).


Problem #5: Outside the Revenant lottery, highsec incursions offer better ISK per hour than lowsec ones. (Not touching null incursions, have no experience there but suspect it is similar to low in non-sov and better than low in deep sovereign null)

Solution:
This is harder to fix, as the fundamental mechanics of incursions strongly reward using shiny ships when Sansha constellation control is high, and using shiny ships in low is foolish. Shiny ships increase clear speed dramatically.
Adding new, lowsec-only sites that are designed for a small gang of 4-8 tech 1 cruisers (harder than scout sites, easier than vanguards) and that offer reasonable rewards and have some impact on constellation control is my suggestion here.


Problem #6: Contest mechanics are unsatisfying and feel too World of Warcraft-esque, with the focus on (imaginary) DPS meters. (Yes, to my shame, I used to play that game. It is bad).

Solution:
Revise the contest mechanic to be more EVE-like.
In low or null, people can resolve contests by shooting each other.
I propose adding a way to do that in highsec, using the limited engagement system.
If a fleet (Fleet 2) warps to a site and another fleet (Fleet 1) is present there, they should have some capacity to declare a challenge. If they cannot finish the site in time, Fleet 1 has 60 seconds to make a choice - flee the site, relinquishing their progress to Fleet 2, or accept the challenge, in which case the two fleets are allowed to shoot each other (managed by limited engagements). However, simply issuing the challenge would make Fleet 2 all become suspects (and the F2 FC would not be able to do it if one or more fleet members had safety green). This would allow Fleet 1 (and only Fleet 1) the capacity to escalate.
This idea needs polish, but I think it could revolutionize highsec incursions, making them less of a 'grind this to level up my Raven' experience and more about the competitive-but-not-totally-unforgiving gameplay that is highsec at its best.

The only thing preventing successful ganking of incursion runners is that they are using the 'toolbox' provided.

A. Follow a set of procedures and do not allow any variance.
B. Fly with a well prepared trusted fleet.
C. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
D. Don't sit on the warp-in.
E. Don't sit in space.
F. Trust in teamwork.

Now I am hearing you don't like those rules, even though every ganker in the game has stated repeatedly if you don't want to get ganked do this, this and that. Now the communities have done all those things we have gankers crying in the forums that Incursion runners are too safe, and making too much ISK. What about all the ISK they lost learning how to avoid getting scammed ganked and set up.

2 years ago it was a free for all, scam fleets warping into a site with no Logi reps then scooping the loot, gankers aligned to gates waiting for the spy to let them know what ship had the most ISK in fittings, ship scans done to get into fleet were only to sum up good targets and freeloader ALTs that would sit in fleet for hours never firing a shot or landing a rep, Incursion local was the place to go for easy identification of gankable targets. Now that those avenues have been closed because they took your advice and protected themselves you want CCP to change the rules and make it easier for you to come harvest tears and billion ISK modules.

Here's an idea, form a fleet and run some Incursions then go buy the module you were hopping would drop. Stop bitching that a portion of PVE harassed for a long time is now immune to harassment due to years of careful planning and vigilance. And finally, if it's so 'risk free' hop in your 5 billion ISK ship move it and your hauling Orca over 50 jumps a week, trust Logi's you have never met are sober and paying attention to the screen and spend a few thousand hours organizing, planning, mediating, negotiating and stressing out over every ganker in EVE wanting your stuff.

Then you too can have a huge pile of that Risk free ISK.

Let me help you with this:

3) removing faction police does nothing. They are already useless and no threat. All incursions should be low sec. Any high sec system should become low sec while under threat of incursion. The rewards of low sec incursions are higher than current high sec...so that should be reward enough. CONCORD is the only limiting factor to players intervening in high sec. Currently players engaging in piracy in high sec incursion incur the wrath of CONCORD. This should stop. CONCORD then proceeds to chill out with their Sansha buddies in the site and do not aid the players. Immersion broken.

4) Sansha and sleepers do nearly the same thing. A new threat appears and they begin to switch targets. This is ok. The aggressor should be prepared with a higher level of defense in anticipation of being a third party in a fight. Don't turn incursions into just another version of factional warfare with more gate restrictions and things for t1 cruisers and stuff. Just no...get out. Incursions should be harsh...or at least as harsh as sleeper sites (if not more so since they spawn so often).

Only thing that comes to mind would be to look at the mass on the NPC Sansha Supercarrier. Right now it just feels too easy to bump, but that may be just me.

e: would give left nut to get ore requirement removed from NMCs but that aint gonna happen.

Why ppl keep shoving pvp content into pve ? you have null and low sec to have all pvp you want ...suddenly everyone is drooling over incursion fleet and want to force them into pvp ? you are having an orgasm over killing shiny ships or something ?

I am tired, so if this comes out rude . . .

I fly incursions so if any of you think I will take forward any proposal that removes Concord from hisec incursions then you are talking to the wrong CSM representative. Ain't gonna happen.

Some of the other ideas I do truly love but every person who wants greater inroads of PvP into the number one team and organization building PvE activity I want to answer with a proposal to make ignored incursions spread, not die. Like an infection or a patch of weeds.

This would encourage low and nullsec folks to take part in the game the way it was meant to be. After all CCP made the incursions to be run, right? So run, monkeys, run.

sigh

Yes, I know it is a bad idea. But if you push to force hisec to go more PvP then understand that I will push back.

m

Problem: Not a problem just a suggestion. I would like to see more integration and dynamical fighting with incursions.

Suggestion: Make incursions integrated with DUST, sansha on the planets

I would like to see something happen if nobody decides to run the incursion because it is in an island or for whatever reason. It shouldn't just disappear there should be some penalty and the sansha should actually be able to take soverinty of systems, attack players on gates, begin to branch out from owned systems trying to take over new eden.

Doesn't feel like a war against the sansha, right now it just feels like farming

Does this mean you are in favour of increasing the number of 0.0 incursions by a significant amount or just making the currents ones be more of a pain in the arse?

'Spreading' incursions would be cool but the mechanics of an incursion going from 1 constellations to 2 constellations need to be implemented carefully considering Incursions have a relatively short lifetime and small - medium 0.0 groups can't mobilise to blitz an incursion down in a couple of days. I would favour a worsening of penalties if they remained untouched as opposed to having an incursion spread to several constellations and having scramming rats on a tonne of gates in a region. Since this would pretty much be a 0.0/ Low sec thing where incursions had a chance to 'spread and worsen' i would like to see some negative impact on hi-sec like the low sec/ 0.0 gate camps until 75% influence of something

Also Mike, is there any possibility of connecting Incursions with a PI output penalty? It seems pretty logical as the Sansha are abducting people from planets and all that. Adding a more localised penalty for people who live in the area would incentive locals to get involved as opposed to just moving your missioning/ ratting to another constellation and waiting for the incursion caravan to come along/ waiting out the incursion and not taking part.

The poster who said Blood raiders raiding for victims was onto something there, definitely some cool PvE to exploit from that.