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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Character Merging

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Mag's
Azn Empire
#81 - 2014-06-23 22:45:35 UTC
Mag's wrote:
No SP transfers ever.
The fact that I could with this system, train 2 chars with different skills. Then merge them and effectively double the SP training speed, makes this idea a very bad one. Which makes it all the more amazing, that it's being kept alive.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Llyona
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#82 - 2014-06-23 23:31:30 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No SP transfers ever.
The fact that I could with this system, train 2 chars with different skills. Then merge them and effectively double the SP training speed, makes this idea a very bad one. Which makes it all the more amazing, that it's being kept alive.


You're effectively arguing that having a single pilot that is the culmination of two seperate training specializations is superior to having two seperate pilots. That is, you're arguing that it's inherently superior to take a booster and a marauder pilot, merge them and then have a single pilot that can do both, but not at the same time. Do you not realize the inherent disadvantage of such a merger?

If such a function did exist, very few people would use it.

EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.
SurrenderMonkey
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#83 - 2014-06-24 00:34:48 UTC  |  Edited by: SurrenderMonkey
Llyona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No SP transfers ever.
The fact that I could with this system, train 2 chars with different skills. Then merge them and effectively double the SP training speed, makes this idea a very bad one. Which makes it all the more amazing, that it's being kept alive.


You're effectively arguing that having a single pilot that is the culmination of two seperate training specializations is superior to having two seperate pilots. That is, you're arguing that it's inherently superior to take a booster and a marauder pilot, merge them and then have a single pilot that can do both, but not at the same time. Do you not realize the inherent disadvantage of such a merger?

If such a function did exist, very few people would use it.


Simply put: Bullshit. You've conveniently cited what would approximately be the least favorable example and then ignored all other possible uses.

As already mentioned, look at something like training for a Dread. There are so many skills without significant prerequisite overlaps that you could nearly halve the time by splitting the training between two characters, especially when optimized for remaps. For example, maxing out the relevant gunnery skills (except WU, AWU, and TWR) on one character has virtually no overlap with one training to max out the hull skill, and neither require any real core skills, so you could split all of that out to a third character and POOF - perfect dread pilot (or near enough) in what, 6-8 months?

That sound reasonable to you?

That aside, "Very few people would use it" is the least compelling argument ever. It's either bullshit, as is the case here, or it's a self-defeating argument: If very few people would use/benefit from it, then there's simply no need to waste the development resources on such an insignificant feature.

"Help, I'm bored with missions!"

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/
Mag's
Azn Empire
#84 - 2014-06-24 01:25:32 UTC
Llyona wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Mag's wrote:
No SP transfers ever.
The fact that I could with this system, train 2 chars with different skills. Then merge them and effectively double the SP training speed, makes this idea a very bad one. Which makes it all the more amazing, that it's being kept alive.


You're effectively arguing that having a single pilot that is the culmination of two seperate training specializations is superior to having two seperate pilots. That is, you're arguing that it's inherently superior to take a booster and a marauder pilot, merge them and then have a single pilot that can do both, but not at the same time. Do you not realize the inherent disadvantage of such a merger?

If such a function did exist, very few people would use it.
No I'm telling you what people would start doing and using this system for.

But as you are in denial and think very few would use it, then we don't really need it.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Inshallah Eichman
Doomheim
#85 - 2014-06-24 01:30:50 UTC
Why not pay to win? When has EVE been "fair"?

The majority of people talking about how tough the EVE crown is and how the game "takes your cookie," or put something stupid like comparing it to animals in the wild in their signature should consider competing with people that have jobs to fund their fun time. I bought a nice boat last year, and it was nicer than some but another guy out there on the water blew me AWAY. It's because he is winning at life more than me currently. Maybe in a few years I can compete with him. Until then I cannot. EVE is the same way. People who want it to be "hardcore" only want it that way to support themselves. They don't want a real challenge that they may lose to.

It's like people complaining about not being able to gank more easily in high sec and how it should be nerfed. Having no L4 missions in high sec etc...They simply want people to come to them on THEIR terms. That's what I want too. Allow character merging and I will spend the money to be able to compete with people better.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#86 - 2014-06-24 01:46:21 UTC
Inshallah Eichman wrote:
Why not pay to win? When has EVE been "fair"?

The majority of people talking about how tough the EVE crown is and how the game "takes your cookie," or put something stupid like comparing it to animals in the wild in their signature should consider competing with people that have jobs to fund their fun time. I bought a nice boat last year, and it was nicer than some but another guy out there on the water blew me AWAY. It's because he is winning at life more than me currently. Maybe in a few years I can compete with him. Until then I cannot. EVE is the same way. People who want it to be "hardcore" only want it that way to support themselves. They don't want a real challenge that they may lose to.

It's like people complaining about not being able to gank more easily in high sec and how it should be nerfed. Having no L4 missions in high sec etc...They simply want people to come to them on THEIR terms. That's what I want too. Allow character merging and I will spend the money to be able to compete with people better.
You want more SP? Then go the to the character bazaar and buy one.

Boosting SP gain by bypassing normal game mechanics, is a bad idea.
And no before you say it, buying a character isn't bypassing normal game mechanics. That character already exists on the server. It has had time and ISK spent in it's development, it comes with a history, a name and whatever skills the person training it chose. All consequences that should be a part of any character purchase, but ones that you can mitigate up to a point.

So rather than being P2W, buying a char is more like PaySomeoneElseForTheirTime. Unlike char merging.

Oh and resorting to Ad Homs, doesn't make your argument any stronger. Rather the opposite tbh.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Llyona
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#87 - 2014-06-24 01:49:02 UTC
Mag's wrote:


But as you are in denial and think very few would use it, then we don't really need it.


Oh my, you're quite the special snowflake aren't you?

I'm arguing that it's a terrible idea because X.

You're arguing it's a terrible idea because Y.

Yet I'm in denial and you aren't.

Just when I think we have an intelligent community, people like you come along and give me some doubts.

EVE is an illness, for which there is no cure.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#88 - 2014-06-24 02:01:06 UTC
Llyona wrote:
Mag's wrote:


But as you are in denial and think very few would use it, then we don't really need it.


Oh my, you're quite the special snowflake aren't you?

I'm arguing that it's a terrible idea because X.

You're arguing it's a terrible idea because Y.

Yet I'm in denial and you aren't.

Just when I think we have an intelligent community, people like you come along and give me some doubts.
But you and you're argument is intelligent, because you can resort to name calling?

I doubt it. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Inshallah Eichman
Doomheim
#89 - 2014-06-24 02:07:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Inshallah Eichman
Mag's wrote:
Inshallah Eichman wrote:
Why not pay to win? When has EVE been "fair"?

The majority of people talking about how tough the EVE crown is and how the game "takes your cookie," or put something stupid like comparing it to animals in the wild in their signature should consider competing with people that have jobs to fund their fun time. I bought a nice boat last year, and it was nicer than some but another guy out there on the water blew me AWAY. It's because he is winning at life more than me currently. Maybe in a few years I can compete with him. Until then I cannot. EVE is the same way. People who want it to be "hardcore" only want it that way to support themselves. They don't want a real challenge that they may lose to.

It's like people complaining about not being able to gank more easily in high sec and how it should be nerfed. Having no L4 missions in high sec etc...They simply want people to come to them on THEIR terms. That's what I want too. Allow character merging and I will spend the money to be able to compete with people better.
You want more SP? Then go the to the character bazaar and buy one.

Boosting SP gain by bypassing normal game mechanics, is a bad idea.
And no before you say it, buying a character isn't bypassing normal game mechanics. That character already exists on the server. It has had time and ISK spent in it's development, it comes with a history, a name and whatever skills the person training it chose. All consequences that should be a part of any character purchase, but ones that you can mitigate up to a point.

So rather than being P2W, buying a char is more like PaySomeoneElseForTheirTime. Unlike char merging.

Oh and resorting to Ad Homs, doesn't make your argument any stronger. Rather the opposite tbh.


There is no "Ad Hom" you nerd. Please learn what something is before you try to use it in a sentence. Anyway what I said still stands. Pay to Win is survival of the fittest. A lot of people will be sad for that but I already pay their taxes for them, I can't spend any more time worrying about them.

Also-Your entire argument supports the OPs desire. So thanks for the support
Mag's
Azn Empire
#90 - 2014-06-24 02:17:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Inshallah Eichman wrote:
There is no "Ad Hom" you nerd. Please learn what something is before you try to use it in a sentence.
You should actually read what you wrote first, then post. It was an Ad Hom because my signature bears no relevance to the topic at hand. Roll

Seems we have two posters whose arguments are so weak, they need to either name call or use fallacies. Nice.

Inshallah Eichman wrote:
Also-Your entire argument supports the OPs desire. So thanks for the support
Maybe you should read it again. Blink

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.