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Please Turn Off Tooltips. Rollback Please

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Thorr VonAsgard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2014-06-19 09:01:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Thorr VonAsgard
Yeah, please let us the choice to remove them.

It's cool as it's cute but not usefull at all.
It's obscuring 80% of the important informations on screen, cause some bugs and impossibility to select of see correctly things.
And sometimes it's just useless ( like saying that the stargate is a stargate ... )

The "delay" option is not the way I want to disable them, cause it's also hide usefull informations...

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Rectile
Warped
#42 - 2014-06-19 09:34:54 UTC
Can we have more tooltips for the overview thanks
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#43 - 2014-06-19 09:36:48 UTC
I also support removal for these hateful things

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#44 - 2014-06-19 15:01:30 UTC
Zappity wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The general settings tab in the ESC menu has sliders for the delay on tooltips. It has a pretty wide setting range so if you just make the delay really long it's basically off.

That also increases the delay on important things like overheat stats when you mouse over modules. That's the sort of information I want, not a tooltip telling me that the "Asakai safe" bookmark is the Asakai safe bookmark. Customization as per audio settings would be great.


The difficult thing is that the information you want is going to be fairly specific to you and having deep enough customization to allow for each player to effectively meet their own needs leads to a hard to build/maintain/use settings system that we would rather avoid.

We are still working to find the best balance though and it's likely we will make more changes to the customization before long.

@ccp_rise
Thorr VonAsgard
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2014-06-19 15:08:26 UTC
At least, thank you for trying.

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Dally Lama
Doomheim
#46 - 2014-06-19 15:45:52 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Zappity wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The general settings tab in the ESC menu has sliders for the delay on tooltips. It has a pretty wide setting range so if you just make the delay really long it's basically off.

That also increases the delay on important things like overheat stats when you mouse over modules. That's the sort of information I want, not a tooltip telling me that the "Asakai safe" bookmark is the Asakai safe bookmark. Customization as per audio settings would be great.


The difficult thing is that the information you want is going to be fairly specific to you and having deep enough customization to allow for each player to effectively meet their own needs leads to a hard to build/maintain/use settings system that we would rather avoid.

We are still working to find the best balance though and it's likely we will make more changes to the customization before long.

That's a fine position to take. As such please consider the notion of allowing us to rollback the feature. If there is anyway to include that old code as an option, please do.

New Fitting Window | Distances above 10km | Maximums for buy orders
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#47 - 2014-06-19 16:52:22 UTC
Off topic posts were removed. Please stay polite and constructive even on controversial topics, thank you!

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer
AutumnWind1983
Reboot Required
#48 - 2014-06-19 21:22:36 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Zappity wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The general settings tab in the ESC menu has sliders for the delay on tooltips. It has a pretty wide setting range so if you just make the delay really long it's basically off.

That also increases the delay on important things like overheat stats when you mouse over modules. That's the sort of information I want, not a tooltip telling me that the "Asakai safe" bookmark is the Asakai safe bookmark. Customization as per audio settings would be great.


The difficult thing is that the information you want is going to be fairly specific to you and having deep enough customization to allow for each player to effectively meet their own needs leads to a hard to build/maintain/use settings system that we would rather avoid.

We are still working to find the best balance though and it's likely we will make more changes to the customization before long.


The expansions of tool tips seems to be to replace to the NPE and google. This could let you put tool tips in one of two broad bins, ones designed for NPE (e.g. book mark names) and ones presenting information that you cannot get anywhere else (heat levels). Giving us the option to turn off the NPE ones is a sorely needed quality of life improvement. A single slider just does not cut it but two large bins shouldn't create too much work for maintenance going forward.

James Arget for CSM 8! http://csm.fcftw.org
Dealth Striker
Perkone
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-06-20 22:13:19 UTC
AutumnWind1983 wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Zappity wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The general settings tab in the ESC menu has sliders for the delay on tooltips. It has a pretty wide setting range so if you just make the delay really long it's basically off.

That also increases the delay on important things like overheat stats when you mouse over modules. That's the sort of information I want, not a tooltip telling me that the "Asakai safe" bookmark is the Asakai safe bookmark. Customization as per audio settings would be great.


The difficult thing is that the information you want is going to be fairly specific to you and having deep enough customization to allow for each player to effectively meet their own needs leads to a hard to build/maintain/use settings system that we would rather avoid.

We are still working to find the best balance though and it's likely we will make more changes to the customization before long.


The expansions of tool tips seems to be to replace to the NPE and google. This could let you put tool tips in one of two broad bins, ones designed for NPE (e.g. book mark names) and ones presenting information that you cannot get anywhere else (heat levels). Giving us the option to turn off the NPE ones is a sorely needed quality of life improvement. A single slider just does not cut it but two large bins shouldn't create too much work for maintenance going forward.


Not only did this save me typing, it is also better written than anything I would of come up with.
Striker Out!!
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#50 - 2014-06-20 22:48:44 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Zappity wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The general settings tab in the ESC menu has sliders for the delay on tooltips. It has a pretty wide setting range so if you just make the delay really long it's basically off.

That also increases the delay on important things like overheat stats when you mouse over modules. That's the sort of information I want, not a tooltip telling me that the "Asakai safe" bookmark is the Asakai safe bookmark. Customization as per audio settings would be great.


The difficult thing is that the information you want is going to be fairly specific to you and having deep enough customization to allow for each player to effectively meet their own needs leads to a hard to build/maintain/use settings system that we would rather avoid.

We are still working to find the best balance though and it's likely we will make more changes to the customization before long.


Rather than make anything complicated can we just have an option to switch off tool tips as a simple check box in the escape menu. Or even an option to switch of tool tips in different screen areas such as background space, the overview or the left hand overview menubar etc.

Thank you for listening though.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#51 - 2014-06-21 04:23:07 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Thank you for listening though.

You'll soon find it's nothing more than lip service.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#52 - 2014-06-21 09:18:54 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Thank you for listening though.

You'll soon find it's nothing more than lip service.
Indeed.

Or to put it another way, selective hearing.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#53 - 2014-06-21 12:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Kaerakh
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
Zappity wrote:
CCP Rise wrote:
The general settings tab in the ESC menu has sliders for the delay on tooltips. It has a pretty wide setting range so if you just make the delay really long it's basically off.

That also increases the delay on important things like overheat stats when you mouse over modules. That's the sort of information I want, not a tooltip telling me that the "Asakai safe" bookmark is the Asakai safe bookmark. Customization as per audio settings would be great.


The difficult thing is that the information you want is going to be fairly specific to you and having deep enough customization to allow for each player to effectively meet their own needs leads to a hard to build/maintain/use settings system that we would rather avoid.

We are still working to find the best balance though and it's likely we will make more changes to the customization before long.


Rather than make anything complicated can we just have an option to switch off tool tips as a simple check box in the escape menu. Or even an option to switch of tool tips in different screen areas such as background space, the overview or the left hand overview menubar etc.

Thank you for listening though.


I dunno, I'm pretty sure the pop ups that tell us the range of our weapons, damage, prop mod effects, ewar range, etc runs off the same system. turn all of that off would probably be bad. Plus the wallet pop up is nice. Turning all of them off would probably not be the best of ideas. It would probably be better to have an option to turn off anything that doesn't provide a shortcut to information such as what I listed as an example. But yeah, I can agree having a pop up telling me the star is a star and the stargate is a stargate is a little redundant and remedial.

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Guaranteed Success
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#54 - 2014-06-23 16:09:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
As posted in the CSM 9 Town Hall thread:

TL;DR:

Give different delays for:

Neocom
Overview\Objects in Space
Capacitor UI inc. Overheat Status, Module Bonus\Stats in hover-over, etc.

Maximus Aerelius wrote:

Q: Is this being looked into at all\discussed with the CSM-CCP: Tooltips going to be separated out so that the Neocom Tooltips have a separate delay to say Capacitor\Overheat and again separate to the Overview Tooltips?

Q: Is it being discussed internally within the CSM about not implementing things without a "tone down\turn off" option? I like the Tooltips but I either have to have them in my face with short delay on everything to see my wallet amount without waiting 30 seconds or all at 30 seconds delay which affects how quickly I can see my Cap amount, OH stats etc. I don't want to turn them off but the option would be nice for those that do. More often than not CCP try to force us to use things before giving us the option to "tone down" or turn it off. CQ for instance, Tooltips is another one.


There are three category's there where it could be divided with space on the ESC Menu to utilise and not need more real estate. How easy it would be from a Dev POV I do not know but something needs to be done as currently it's an all or nothing i.e. Short or Long depending on what I'm doing.

Adding it to the UI and then thinking "Maybe we should've given options" is what we've come to expect with some things but not something so crucial to so many for so many different things.

I for one love Tooltips but for for the love of the 1 Republic, 1 Federation, 1 State and 2 Empires give us options and not just an "in-your-face-have-it-and-use-it" sort of thing. Please listen to those that play the game and that are trying to give positive feedback.

Thanks for your time and I hope thee are some iterations\improvements on this shortly.

EDIT:

And before people jump on the "oh bittervet" no, it's not about tears and I love most if not all the work the UI teams and CCP karkur and Punkturis do but where I feel I want to help the game I've been a part of and played for >11 years I will and I'll always try to adapt so it's not a resistance to change, more of a "listen, this is how we can adapt this to work with our playstyles.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#55 - 2014-06-23 16:25:27 UTC
Quote:
The expansions of tool tips seems to be to replace to the NPE and google. This could let you put tool tips in one of two broad bins, ones designed for NPE (e.g. book mark names) and ones presenting information that you cannot get anywhere else (heat levels). Giving us the option to turn off the NPE ones is a sorely needed quality of life improvement. A single slider just does not cut it but two large bins shouldn't create too much work for maintenance going forward.


This is basically what we are looking into now. Originally what we wanted to avoid was trying to have customization grouped by feature, which seemed to be the natural assumption about how customization would work. We are now finding that if we can group them as you say, based on whether they contain important/dynamic gameplay info versus new player-focused explanations we may be able to make things feel a lot better for most folks.

@ccp_rise
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#56 - 2014-06-23 16:28:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
CCP Rise wrote:
The difficult thing is that the information you want is going to be fairly specific to you and having deep enough customization to allow for each player to effectively meet their own needs leads to a hard to build/maintain/use settings system that we would rather avoid.

We are still working to find the best balance though and it's likely we will make more changes to the customization Soon™.


Fixed that for you.

EDIT:

Sooner-than-I-thought-perhaps™

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#57 - 2014-06-23 16:35:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
The expansions of tool tips seems to be to replace to the NPE and google. This could let you put tool tips in one of two broad bins, ones designed for NPE (e.g. book mark names) and ones presenting information that you cannot get anywhere else (heat levels). Giving us the option to turn off the NPE ones is a sorely needed quality of life improvement. A single slider just does not cut it but two large bins shouldn't create too much work for maintenance going forward.


This is basically what we are looking into now. Originally what we wanted to avoid was trying to have customization grouped by feature, which seemed to be the natural assumption about how customization would work. We are now finding that if we can group them as you say, based on whether they contain important/dynamic gameplay info versus new player-focused explanations we may be able to make things feel a lot better for most folks.


I think it was a bit naive to think that, in a game as complex and deep as EVE, you thought you wouldn't need "customization groups". The emergent gameplay for things you develop and deliver to us that you never thought we'd do (Living in wormholes for instance) shows that we think outside of the box and we need the right tools\information at that moment to base our decisions on. Having to switch Long - Short delay because I'm going PvPing instead of Trading today isn't good for anyone and only breeds frustration hence why I think a lot of threads were opened on this from day one.

I really do hope it's being seriously considered and not Soon™ as per my playful jibe Smile. I don't think we're asking for the world (well most of us aren't) when we want the tooltips, we love\like them, for different things in different situations. We need some customisation on those delays for he different parts.

EDIT:

I get that from a developer perspective it's easier to maintain, develop, iterate and build upon but when it affects the customer and\or end product then it's not such a good thing.

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#58 - 2014-06-23 21:05:21 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
The expansions of tool tips seems to be to replace to the NPE and google. This could let you put tool tips in one of two broad bins, ones designed for NPE (e.g. book mark names) and ones presenting information that you cannot get anywhere else (heat levels). Giving us the option to turn off the NPE ones is a sorely needed quality of life improvement. A single slider just does not cut it but two large bins shouldn't create too much work for maintenance going forward.


This is basically what we are looking into now. Originally what we wanted to avoid was trying to have customization grouped by feature, which seemed to be the natural assumption about how customization would work. We are now finding that if we can group them as you say, based on whether they contain important/dynamic gameplay info versus new player-focused explanations we may be able to make things feel a lot better for most folks.

Very good. Being able to remove "Explanatory" tips while leaving "Dynamic" tips on would work for me.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth
#59 - 2014-06-24 11:11:44 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Quote:
The expansions of tool tips seems to be to replace to the NPE and google. This could let you put tool tips in one of two broad bins, ones designed for NPE (e.g. book mark names) and ones presenting information that you cannot get anywhere else (heat levels). Giving us the option to turn off the NPE ones is a sorely needed quality of life improvement. A single slider just does not cut it but two large bins shouldn't create too much work for maintenance going forward.


This is basically what we are looking into now. Originally what we wanted to avoid was trying to have customization grouped by feature, which seemed to be the natural assumption about how customization would work. We are now finding that if we can group them as you say, based on whether they contain important/dynamic gameplay info versus new player-focused explanations we may be able to make things feel a lot better for most folks.



Please, get going with this approach asap!

And while you are at it please remove tool tips for the in-game browser window. Eve-kill is a pain now with the tool tips and you really dont want to make people use zkillboard, do you. : )

Thanks, Regards
Gal
Barton Breau
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2014-06-24 15:13:49 UTC
One of the issues is that the tooltips seem to stick around for longer than before and do seem to behave obtrusively like if they were created with some advanced functionality in mind, so they have to stay on screen, like clickable stuff in them.