Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Except that any t1 BC/ tech 3 tanked well enough to survive catching aggro second in the final pocket is at a severe penalty for applying damage even to targets at reasonable ranges. Now, if it opened up to command ships, this would make much more sense and be able to be tanked and still apply enough DPS to go quickly.

Except a bunch of ships can do MTAC duty without affecting negatively their presence for other stuff. Being in a T3/BC will totally impact your effectiveness for the rest of the site/other sites.

There isn't even a need to refit in space, whatever ship from the ranged group fit his utility high with a tractor permanently and you are good to go. A Mach will do it sole. If you have a really not shiny fleet, get 2 people to play yoyo with 2 cans.

Or instead of calling it a nerf (which it isn't, we're asking for a buff to the site from our perspective), call it balancing. 60km total distance minimum for the BS, 1.4x the EHP of any other site and 1.3x the incomming DPS of any other site at that level is out of line. A restriction on which ships can take the gate for that one site just makes it brokenly out of line, as it reduces the effective DPS hulls by 1.2 (for perfect comp of shiny ABCs only) and none of these ships can make nearly the same DPS at range as the BS hulls they replace, and they end up fragile enough that they ought to be held back for a few moments to clear more DPS to make them survivable.

Asking for the command ships to be added somewhat alleviates the second problem, as their better native tank and similar application to unshiny ABCs when fully shiny makes them a competitive option without killing the flavor of the site entirely.

If I am understanding you correctly, this behavior highlights a major problem. Hisec isn't for PvE and low and null arent for PvP. The fact that they are able to dictate and define where PvP happens and where PvE happens, is, in my understanding, contrary to the goals of a sandbox. Miners get ganked in hisec. Freighters get ganked in hisec. Mission runners get ganked in hisec. Incursion runners do get ganked, but its absolutely much harder to gank them inside of a site than catching any of these other types doing their profession; why are they allowed this safety? Right now, hisec incursions outpace ISK/hr of many significantly more dangerous activities in null and low - if you are going to give them ISK, why not give them RISK? Seriously, Sansha rats should not shoot at friendly pirates.

I think about the people trying to live in low and null, where you want them to live so that content is generated, and then look at incursions. Why take the risk when the isk can be generated in complete saftey, and then used when you feel like PvPing?

Seems like it would be easier to just remove incursions from high-sec (which would be awesome).

OK: Challenge Accepted

Problem: Risk Reward in high sec is out of balance. (0 risk, 100% reward)
Solution: Incursions in high sec space turn high sec into 0.4 sec space until capsuleers retake it.
Benefit: More mothership drops, increased isk ad LP rewards - players can pvp without CONCORD interfering. After all Incursions are supposed to disable CONCORD's systems.

Problem: No significant downside to not running incursions in null sec or even low sec/FW space
Solution: Incursions after a certain point of sitting at 100% (point to be decided) expand to a neighboring constellation like a cancer...but only within the contiguous region. If an Incursion ever gets to control a region then it spreads simultaneously to a bordering constellation in all neighboring regions connected by gates.
Benefit: Induces a sense of urgency to fight sansha otherwise the power and control can grow. It would be gin to significantly disrupt trade in high, low and null security space.

Problem: Farming of Incursions
Solution: If the system reaches a certain % (lets say 90%+ just as a random state) and stays there for more than 24 hours without the mothership being killed...then sansha begins to reinforce and fight back harder. After all not finishing off the enemy will eventually let them reinforce in almost any case.
Benefit: Decreases farming and pushes those who want to farm harder. Increasing the spawn rate of sites as well would also increase the competition and the necessity for cooperation amongst capsuleers to end the scourge of Sansha!

More Esoteric Problem - Content
Incursion have not been updated in some time so to add content is difficult in the sense that certain roles are filled already.
Solution - Introduce Incursion Stages that MATTER:
Initial Stage - Sansha is invading and setting up (only staging system is affected initially - lasts about 1 hour, but pilots quick to respond can nip the incursion in the bud.
Stage 2 - Constellation Control.
Sansha now has control over the affected constellation (normal incursion status);
Stage 2a - Sansha Reinforcements (capsuleers have taken too long and now sansha fights back 50% harder).
Stage 3: Sansha Last Stand/Withdrawl - Mothership appears and the incursion is either beaten back, or it moves into stage 3a. Stage 3a: Sansha Expansion - A neighboring regional constellation is now under Stage 1 Incursion threat.
Stage 4 - Sansha Regional Control: Sovereignty flips from default sov holder to Sansha. If this happens to a nullsec power their Sovereignty levels are reset to 0 even if they manage to take back the space...this can mean CSAA's are shut down.
Stage 4a - within 24 hours of stage 4 an new neighboring regional area is invaded by sansha. The Cancer is growing.

At stage 3 and 4 Sansha should be deploying his own dreadnought and carriers in the newly controlled region at special sites called Overlord Base and the system will be called an Overlord System, as opposed to Vaguard or Assault. The overlord systems will not be cyno jammed. New Sansha flavored Capital gear can be dropped. True Sansha Capital Armor Repair BPC's, True Sansha giga Pulse Lasers and the like.

Problem - Incursions only happen with Sansha
Solution - Perhaps more diverse incurisons should begin to happen as pirate factions research forbidden or newly discovered/stolen technologies. Though rarer than Sansha incursions there should be a chance for an Angel, Gurista, Blood Raider, or Serpentis Incursion that will more or less be the same. This can be explained out of the evolution of the Clone Trooper programs that pirate factions are running.
Benefits - if regional controls are achieved then players can obtain...through great effort Capital ship gear from these other factions and have a different experience. New Pirate Mothership BPCs may drop increasing the diversity amongst the family of super carriers.

Didn't offend me, sometimes my prose is a bit acerbic my apologies, I was lumping several of the PVP pro suggestions into one response while addressing your's as well, no offence was meant just trying to get the most out of one post.

Incursion runners are the opposite of Carebears, they use teams of people to interact with the environment, they provide ISK for the market and reduce the cost of many things by providing a demand, they provide content through team participation with the exception of a few they can't do it solo, and as I stated before a large portion use their ISK to do exactly what you want them to do, PVP.

The fact that they leave their 5 billion ISK machines in the station when they come out to fight seems to be the main problem everyone has with them.

A few of the points you mentioned;

Anyone that Semi-AFK's Incursions will be left with more debt than profit in short order.

I have been on several low sec Incursion grinds that resulted in more PVP than ISK.

The current choice of FW or Incursions is available, if you want risky PVE with your PVP or vice versa, they are there for everyone to enjoy no need to vanilla down Incursions like tieracide has many of our ships.

Until groups got together and started running with trusted friends Incursions were rife with ganks, FC scams, wreck thefts and general ship losses. Now that the communities have spent 2 years perfected a way to keep everyone safe and making ISK there seems to be a line of people asking to make them more dangerous and easier to subvert so they can get their hands on the shiny loot. It's not broke, we have made it safe at great cost and effort, if we want to risk ships while making ISK we do the Low sec spawns.

As I said before there are plenty of opportunities to do PVP with your PVE it's not needed here; We got rid of it without CCP's help for a reason.

As you said, (Paraphrasing) you make a choice for what you want in EVE, you can buy a PLEX, you can sit in a belt and mine, you can run missions, buy and sell commodities, or sit on a gate and wait for a juicy target, each of those choices are an investment of time and effort.

You chose to not do Incursions, mining, marketing, missions, industry, exploration, alliance participation, or any of the other means of PLEXing an account through gameplay and would like CCP to make one of these options subjected to your style because you don't like to grind for your ISK. Here's a hint no one likes to grind for ISK, some do it because they want more toys to play with and possibly lose.

This thread is, IMO, about the 40% (Give or take) of Incursion content that is not being used (Scout sites and Assaults due to NCN's), fixing that would create opportunities for more players to get involved in non-carebear content like being involved in team efforts, learning fleet manoeuvres, ship fittings, skill progression and getting the ISK buffer that makes them feel comfortable in engaging in the other gameplay IE; PVP.

Problem: rense and repeat...
Possible solution: guristas, serpentis and angel incursions, limit sanshas to amarr space, serpentis to gallente, guristas to caldari and angel to minmatar.

Different strategies, each with their ewar, sanshas for neut, guristas for ecm (so niarjas wouldnt be able to ecm no more), gallent efor tracking disruption, minmatar... well, figure something XD


This would make incursions a little bit more interesting, specific fits for each, on guristas logistics could fit remote eccm, and basilisk might only fit 5-1 instead of 4-2



Anyway, this i think would be a part of pve overhaul as a whole, it makes no sense that a single battleship can pwn one of those mission istes where there are like 10 battleships and 20 cruisers shooting at you, they should have more a pvp behavior, i mean, less ships per room but much much tougher and smarter ships...

No one wants to risk ships to make ISK, but the nature of the game is distorted when a select activity can actually have next to zero risk and make tons of ISK. I don't like risking my ships, but I want ISK.

Does a freighter like going through chokes?
Does a miner like being in an ice field?
Does a ninja ratter like being a few jumps away from a busy null hub and being hunted?
Does an AFKtar get killed on occasion?
Does a station trader like being caught on speculation from a few patch notes?
Does a ganker like having the loot fairy raise her fickle hand and say 'No'?

All of these have RISK inherit in them. Player driven risk. The consistency and ease of the incursion ISK, coupled with the inability to be effectively tampered with due to CONCORD, etc, makes it a very silly thing.