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A serious question for the EVE community RE: Player Conduct.

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Bethan Le Troix
Krusual Investigation Agency
#61 - 2014-06-23 15:52:16 UTC
Harassment and bullying such as the actions perpetrated by E1 is a very serious matter that was eventually dealt with in the proper manner. Anyone who has been harassed or bullied in real life will know how distressing it can be.

I'm not sure I agree that someone expressing an opinion about the death of someone is as serious although it would depend on the context. I won't say anymore as everyone has their own opinion on the Middle Eastern situation.

As others have said a petition should be filed by the offended partie/s so that CCP can decide what to do.
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#62 - 2014-06-23 15:56:01 UTC
This kind of crap about VR has no place in eve.

freedom of speech is one thing, freedom to insult the dead, especially one who died in the service of his country certainly should not exist in this game.

Ban the offender and any related accounts..FOR LIFE.

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Bagrat Skalski
Koinuun Kotei
#63 - 2014-06-23 15:57:02 UTC
Quote:
Vilerat Deservedit


Only God knows.

Custom ship skins, character creator style "repaint". Bring it!
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#64 - 2014-06-23 16:02:05 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
This kind of crap about VR has no place in eve.

freedom of speech is one thing, freedom to insult the dead, especially one who died in the service of his country certainly should not exist in this game.

Ban the offender and any related accounts..FOR LIFE.



Seriously. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say things that cruel and disparaging about Lee Harvey Oswald, publicly.


I guess in the Internet Age, there isn't even any peace in Death.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#65 - 2014-06-23 16:03:33 UTC
This is how I feel about it:

I look at it like EvE is a governing body and similar to the United States freedom of speech, right? Of course, EvE is not the US Government and are under no obligations to allow people to say whatever they want, HOWEVER.... Being the lovely sandbox EvE is I don't see why they shouldn't act like the US Government and allow him to speak how he wants and let the community deal with him.

In America you are free to spout hateful racist crap, and the rest of us are free to fire you, ostracize you and deny you access to privately owned businesses. In EvE, I feel like we could handle this man ourselves, assuming people really cared enough. I personally don't know VR so I am unemotionally attached to the situation. While I find such comments in bad taste, its not unlike WBC, at some point you just ignore them and quit giving them the attention they crave....or you know, blow them up, camp them in station, scam them and belittle them whenever you can. Whatever works for you.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2014-06-23 16:03:55 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
This kind of crap about VR has no place in eve.

freedom of speech is one thing, freedom to insult the dead, especially one who died in the service of his country certainly should not exist in this game.

Ban the offender and any related accounts..FOR LIFE.


Yes, I agree, ban him. However, freedom of speech is not the issue. I don't know why people try to make it one, but it always seems strange how someone screams "FREEDOM OF SPEECH!!!" after they've already said what they're complaining about being not allowed to say. Here's the thing, no one is denying freedom of speech. You have the freedom to say what you want. If you aren't responsible enough to face the consequences of what you say, however, then you probably shouldn't say it.

This isn't about rights, it's about your responsibilities with those rights and the consequences of being a jackass.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#67 - 2014-06-23 16:04:07 UTC
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
Posting in another doomed thread that won't get anything accomplished when all is said and done.


lol :)

I'm a bit thankful that I don't share your very intense sense of total pessimism, but I totally see where you are coming from. It's rather frustrating when you are dealing with some people who are so paranoid that actually think that just mentioning the name of a specific player for purposes of an example automatically requires that the tin-foil hats be passed around while we all personally insult each other. xD



The human race has been incapable of any real debate on anything since the 1970s. I could go on but I'm short on tinfoil lately.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2014-06-23 16:20:22 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
IB4L, and I won't comment on specific events I haven't personally witnessed.

But generally speaking, if I were CCP I'd consistently at least temp ban anyone that writes RL physical violence threats in-game or writes about approving RL physical violence.

Not because it's 'bad' but because it's extremely stupid.

I could totally get behind this policy. I don't believe this sort of behavior deserves a permanent ban, unless the person continues to not improve their behavior.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#69 - 2014-06-23 16:20:50 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
This isn't about rights, it's about your responsibilities with those rights and the consequences of being a jackass.

There's freedom of speech as a right, and freedom of speech as a principle. This is about the later.
Grobalobobob Bob
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2014-06-23 16:20:55 UTC
...because this is EvE.

CCP can't in one hand make a game that attracts and promotes this kind of behaviour in the game world, then ban the same people they applaud, when it happens out of the game. The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

Hence we have a problem. If you stop the idiots behaving like idiots IN THE GAME, then it wont materialize out side of the game. BUT, if you promote it IN GAME, then by all definition of human nature, it will sure as daylight roll into the real world. CCP cannot have it both ways.

It's like the question What is RMT? if exchange my Ark for £250, it's considered RMT, yet if I exchange it for someone to say, build me some decking in my garden for my new gazebo, exactly the same monetary value is being exchanged for the same item, yet is that also a bannable offence? Account banned because you swapped an Ark for some garden decking... It's absurd. YET, it's still RMT.

I digress. "games" in the game world, will overlap into real life, just like intelligence mapping has rolled over from the game world to say DOTLAN.

CCP had no right to ban this guy (Erotica1) for stuff that happened outside the EVE universe. CCP realised they created a monster inside the EVE universe, and had to dispose of it for PR sake... And it was for PR sake, regardless of how you want to spin it. Google the incident, and realise that any normal human being would feel very damn sorry for the victim and deny the same mind set that orchestrated the whole incident.. YET the irony is very real, that the basis for this is still predominately approved as 'emergent gameplay'.

My mind boggles.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2014-06-23 16:22:36 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
This isn't about rights, it's about your responsibilities with those rights and the consequences of being a jackass.

There's freedom of speech as a right, and freedom of speech as a principle. This is about the later.


If it's just about principles, then that's entirely subjective, ergo, irrelevant.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#72 - 2014-06-23 16:26:50 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
If it's just about principles, then that's entirely subjective, ergo, irrelevant.

That is your opinion, and thus entirely subjective, ergo, irrelevant.
Lucy Ferrr
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2014-06-23 16:30:35 UTC
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
This kind of crap about VR has no place in eve.

freedom of speech is one thing, freedom to insult the dead, especially one who died in the service of his country certainly should not exist in this game.

Ban the offender and any related accounts..FOR LIFE.

The thing about free speech is that all speech is free, not just speech you approve. Restricting speech is a slippery slope. Who gets to decide what speech is allowed and what isn't? CCP, you, me?

Although talking ill of the dead is in extremely poor taste, I am not personally offended by it. He not around to hear it and be offended by it. I find using mental illness as a derogatory term (like earlier in the thread) much more offensive. That damages people who are alive and have to suffer because of it. So if people get banned for talking **** about dead people, I want people banned for using mental illness as an insult.

On the other hand, (hypothetically) CCP cares not about Vile Rat or about mental illness, they don't like people talking crap about EVE Online. So if we ban people for talking bad about the dead, then we must ban those that talk ill of CCP staff. Slippery slope man.

Also what Erotica 1 did is so much worse than talking crap, its not even on the same level. Sticks and stones dude. Words have no power unless you give them power. E1 was adversely affecting people's real lives, stupid people's real lives, but people none the less.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-06-23 16:34:41 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
If it's just about principles, then that's entirely subjective, ergo, irrelevant.

That is your opinion, and thus entirely subjective, ergo, irrelevant.


No, it's not my opinion at all, it's a basic function of fair and honest gaming community management. If there is to be decision making going on about community management then it needs to remain consistent. One player getting a free pass for something that got another player banned, for example, would be inconsistent. In order to maintain consistency, then standards of management have to be OBJECTIVE. What's good for one is good for all.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
hedge betts Shiyurida
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#75 - 2014-06-23 16:34:43 UTC
E1 asked people to willingly participate in order to win prizes: perma ban was complete overkill, considering the mittani asked the eve community at fan fest to help push a person over the edge and commit suicide.

On vile rat. The troll in public was well out order as no-one deserves to be murdered, that said lots of people that play eve online have passed away. Only difference is goons made a massive thing out of it.

Pog mo thoin

Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#76 - 2014-06-23 16:35:47 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
No, it's not my opinion at all, it's a basic function of fair and honest gaming community management. If there is to be decision making going on about community management then it needs to remain consistent. One player getting a free pass for something that got another player banned, for example, would be inconsistent. In order to maintain consistency, then standards of management have to be OBJECTIVE. What's good for one is good for all.

Which is what principles do. Roll
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#77 - 2014-06-23 16:37:04 UTC
Komi Toran wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
No, it's not my opinion at all, it's a basic function of fair and honest gaming community management. If there is to be decision making going on about community management then it needs to remain consistent. One player getting a free pass for something that got another player banned, for example, would be inconsistent. In order to maintain consistency, then standards of management have to be OBJECTIVE. What's good for one is good for all.

Which is what principles do. Roll


Who's principles?

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2014-06-23 16:56:46 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:

On a side note, thank you for confirming the top secret fact that I am not Erotica 1 :P That dude needs to get his story straight, all CODE agents are alts of the Mittani. Everyone knows that. xD



That theory was debunked by James 315 himself some time ago. Proof - the Mittani writes "hisec", we write "highsec". Therefore we all must be somebody else's alt.

You don't think that mittens can alter his spelling on a per-character basis?

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Morihei Akachi
Doomheim
#79 - 2014-06-23 17:06:58 UTC
"Freedom of speech", in the sense of being able to say in public whatever the hell you want, isn't an absolute good. I live in a country where certain kinds of speech are prohibited—denying the Holocaust, for example, or speech intended to stir up hatred towards some segment of the population—and I have absolutely no problem with that. I think that some constraints on what appears in local are entirely in order, and approving of someone having been murdered in RL would totally fall into that category for me.

"Enduring", "restrained" and "ample" as designations for starship components are foreign to the genre of high-tech science fiction and don’t belong in Eve Online. (And as for “scoped” …)
Komi Toran
Perkone
Caldari State
#80 - 2014-06-23 17:08:48 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Who's principles?

There's no "who." It's simply "the." The principle of freedom of speech. This isn't rocket science.