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What is CCP's current stance on 'capital power projection' in EVE?
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Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
#21 - 2014-06-23 16:27:13 UTC
I don't really think the SBU makes that much of a difference. The old system once a POS goes into reinforce the defenders know when and where to be for the next timer.

As far as power projection, that is a direct function of player power. If you took away jump bridges, beacons, titans and supercarriers you would still be left to deal with the players of the large alliance who undoubtedly outnumber you and can field the next best thing, carriers and dreads, and the alliance would simply deploy to a nearby staging system to fight you. Realistically, you cannot nerf power projection because it is not a game mechanic, it is a player made one.

You make a valid point, good Sir or Madam. 
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#22 - 2014-06-23 16:28:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Xercodo
I'm of the radical opinion that jump drives should be done away with aside from maybe black ops bridges to maintain their espionage role.

Titans should be buffed to make them more than a mobile doomsday and JB. And all capitals should have jump drives removed, allowed to use gates, and be forced to spend an hour to get anywhere more than a few jumps. Watch as every alliance's influence shrinks like crazy, conflicts become more regional, gate camps to break supply lines to highsec become more prevalent, and as an overall result local mining and industry for the sake of self sufficiency become a MUST in nullsec because your highsec haulers would die otherwise.

However, in exchange I would ask that most capitals see a bit of a buff in agility. And other little buffs here and there to make their use worth it still. Also since this would kill the JF I would ask the JF get repurposed into ship haulers. Make 90% or even 100% of the cargo into an SMA capable of carrying multiple battleships. To keep this balanced it should be less battleships than a normal freighter is capable of carrying unassembled. The same small buffs of EHP and mobility because they're T2 should be applied as well though.

With the max cargo charon capable of 1.2 million and a repackaged size of 50k for any battleship it can carry about 24 of them. From there then I say the new ship carrier have something like 8 or 10 assembled BSes in it at max. Which means about 5 mill m3 SMA.

The Drake is a Lie
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#23 - 2014-06-23 16:31:40 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
I'm of the radical opinion that jump drives should be done away with aside from maybe black ops bridges to maintain their espionage role.

Titans should be buffed to make them more than a mobile doomsday and JB. And all capitals should have jump drives removed, allowed to use gates, and be forced to spend an hour to get anywhere more than a few jumps. Watch as every alliance's influence shrinks like crazy, conflicts become more regional, gate camps to break supply lines to highsec become more prevalent, and as an overall result local mining and industry for the sake of self sufficiency become a MUST in nullsec because your highsec haulers would die otherwise.

However, in exchange I would ask that most capitals see a bit of a buff in agility. And other little buffs here and there to make their use worth it still. Also since this would the the JF I would ask the JF get repurposed into ship haulers. Make 90% or even 100% of the cargo into an SMA capable of carrying multiple battleships. To keep this balanced it should be less battleships than a normal freighter is capable of carrying unassembled. The same small buffs of EHP and mobility because they're T2 should be applied as well though.

With the max cargo charon capable of 1.2 million and a repackaged size of 50k for any battleship it can carry about 24 of them. From there then I say the new ship carrier have something like 8 or 10 assembled BSes in it at max. Which means about 5 mill m3 SMA.


The game doesn't really need roaming spider-tanked carrier gangs.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#24 - 2014-06-23 16:34:13 UTC
Jessica Duranin wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

I wish CCP would nerf power projection just so we could see what new scape goat the unsuccessful and uncreative 'we're a small group' types could come up with.

You can already see what happens when power projection gets nerfed severely...
W-space is kind of the extreme opposite to the current state of power projection in k-space: no cynos and even 'gate' travel is severely restricted. (Not just the mass restrictions, but also that you can't easily travel to a specific system at any given time)

What do we have in w-space? Right! Small corporations being able to 'own' systems. Sure, the larger corporations can evict them from their system, but they usually don't. Why don't they?
Well, for one there isn't much of a reason to take systems that you are not going to use. In contrast to null sec an empty system in w-space isn't owned by anyone.
Second reason is the nerfed power projection: You can't hold large amounts of systems in w-space without spreading your forces among them - which in turn makes those systems more vulnerable. As a result you only stick to the systems that you are actually using.

I'm not saying that this extreme sort of power projection nerf would be a good thing for null, but it gives you a hint in what direction it could push null sec.


No it doesn't Null sec isn't wormhole space. It would still have gates, it would still allow for jump cloning, death cloning and the like.

Why make null anything like wormhole space when wormhole space already exists? Why doesn't the 'small group' just move into a wormhole rather than expecting the entire game to be gerrymandered in such a way as to ruin null for people who can actually make friends?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#25 - 2014-06-23 16:38:38 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
I'm of the radical opinion that jump drives should be done away with aside from maybe black ops bridges to maintain their espionage role.

Titans should be buffed to make them more than a mobile doomsday and JB. And all capitals should have jump drives removed, allowed to use gates, and be forced to spend an hour to get anywhere more than a few jumps. Watch as every alliance's influence shrinks like crazy, conflicts become more regional, gate camps to break supply lines to highsec become more prevalent, and as an overall result local mining and industry for the sake of self sufficiency become a MUST in nullsec because your highsec haulers would die otherwise.

However, in exchange I would ask that most capitals see a bit of a buff in agility. And other little buffs here and there to make their use worth it still. Also since this would the the JF I would ask the JF get repurposed into ship haulers. Make 90% or even 100% of the cargo into an SMA capable of carrying multiple battleships. To keep this balanced it should be less battleships than a normal freighter is capable of carrying unassembled. The same small buffs of EHP and mobility because they're T2 should be applied as well though.

With the max cargo charon capable of 1.2 million and a repackaged size of 50k for any battleship it can carry about 24 of them. From there then I say the new ship carrier have something like 8 or 10 assembled BSes in it at max. Which means about 5 mill m3 SMA.


The game doesn't really need roaming spider-tanked carrier gangs.


Because hot dropped spider tanked gangs are so much better.

The Drake is a Lie
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-06-23 16:43:02 UTC
War Kitten wrote:


The game doesn't really need roaming spider-tanked carrier gangs.



Aren't those called slow cats?
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#27 - 2014-06-23 16:45:44 UTC
Guiz, Hotdropz R OP as ****. Plz Nerf hotdropz.



Kthxbai.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Ramona McCandless
Silent Vale
LinkNet
#28 - 2014-06-23 17:06:01 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
I'm of the radical opinion that jump drives should be done away with aside from maybe black ops bridges to maintain their espionage role.


How do you plan to rationalise that technological retrograde?

The Succession Wars?

The Dark Age of Technology?

Feudal Serfdom... oh wait, thats what you think this will solve, isnt it?

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#29 - 2014-06-23 17:17:03 UTC
tl;dr,

my guess is they will look into power projection and the cap ship rebalance as part of the sov mechanic over haul. If you take the current timeline into account, industry is first and coming in a few weeks, then corps and alliances, then pos' then sov. So we have a while before sov and power projection is addressed. If you ask me, pos and sov need to be done around the same time, as they are rather closely tied together.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#30 - 2014-06-23 17:21:12 UTC
Caviar Liberta wrote:
War Kitten wrote:


The game doesn't really need roaming spider-tanked carrier gangs.



Aren't those called slow cats?


Not everyone is up on the latest lingo. I was just going to say roaming wrecking ball gangs.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#31 - 2014-06-23 17:24:03 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Make friends


Translation: "Pay Rent".

Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#32 - 2014-06-23 17:36:49 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
I'm of the radical opinion that jump drives should be done away with aside from maybe black ops bridges to maintain their espionage role.

Titans should be buffed to make them more than a mobile doomsday and JB. And all capitals should have jump drives removed, allowed to use gates, and be forced to spend an hour to get anywhere more than a few jumps. Watch as every alliance's influence shrinks like crazy, conflicts become more regional, gate camps to break supply lines to highsec become more prevalent, and as an overall result local mining and industry for the sake of self sufficiency become a MUST in nullsec because your highsec haulers would die otherwise.

However, in exchange I would ask that most capitals see a bit of a buff in agility. And other little buffs here and there to make their use worth it still. Also since this would the the JF I would ask the JF get repurposed into ship haulers. Make 90% or even 100% of the cargo into an SMA capable of carrying multiple battleships. To keep this balanced it should be less battleships than a normal freighter is capable of carrying unassembled. The same small buffs of EHP and mobility because they're T2 should be applied as well though.

With the max cargo charon capable of 1.2 million and a repackaged size of 50k for any battleship it can carry about 24 of them. From there then I say the new ship carrier have something like 8 or 10 assembled BSes in it at max. Which means about 5 mill m3 SMA.


The game doesn't really need roaming spider-tanked carrier gangs.


Because hot dropped spider tanked gangs are so much better.


"My idea is slightly less bad than existing mechanics" is not a great selling point.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Marsha Mallow
#33 - 2014-06-23 18:06:46 UTC
myjita wrote:
Can someone with official CCP employee status please comment on this?

It's a major obstacle for smaller entities, not being able to at least get a foot inside the door, before getting anally enlarged

The jump fuel changes suggest this might be under long term implementation. Check out the next batch of CSM minutes, it will probably be discussed. You might get an indication from the CSM if you poke one of them direct.

Ripard Teg > For the morons in the room:

Sweets > U can dd my face any day
Rhes
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#34 - 2014-06-23 19:22:46 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Make friends


Translation: "Pay Rent".

Blink

Making friends is cheaper.

EVE is a game about spaceships and there's an enormous amount of work to do on the in-space gameplay before players (or developers) are ready to sacrifice it for a totally new type of gameplay - CCP Rise
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-06-23 19:31:54 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Make friends


Translation: "Pay Rent".

Blink


There is no translation to make, only friends. Apparently the concept of making friends is too difficult for people to grasp.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2014-06-23 19:50:39 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I thought power projection was easier than it actually was. And then I bought a carrier and realized how much of a pain it is to actually move the damn thing. And I had JDC V before Amarr Carrier I.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Alternative Splicing
Captain Content and The Contenteers
#37 - 2014-06-23 20:08:32 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Why make null anything like wormhole space when wormhole space already exists? Why doesn't the 'small group' just move into a wormhole rather than expecting the entire game to be gerrymandered in such a way as to ruin null for people who can actually make friends?



I like the way you phrased that, its actually a very concise statement of a problem.

Yes, null should not be WH space, but that does not mean that the only meaningful size of groups that should be living there are ones so large that they cannot fight each other due to server mechanics. I am pretty sure most would agree the present coalitions are too large in terms of keeping null vibrant, and that the present mechanics virtually ensure this stagnation. More places like providence, less wastelands.

Actually using conquered space to live in and cultivate should be encouraged, unlike WH where a single hole could not support its residents indefinitely. There should be an impetus and a chance for enough medium to large (just not supersize) groups to actually wrestle some space away from larger entities. It makes no sense that the biggest, heaviest ships in the game can be everywhere at once, preventing this. I am NOT advocating that every small corp needs to own a system. Just that the present system is keeping null very stagnant, and a stagnant null is not helping the state of the game.

Imagine if in RISK, the board game, all of your armies were in all of your countries simultaneously. Any and all strategy of troop placement and movement would be meaningless, and actually taking and defending larger continents to reap the rewards would be trivial. This is exactly where we are at now.
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#38 - 2014-06-23 21:04:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Loraine Gess
You can give any entity an invincible bridging titan and it won't stop them from being ******** and small. They'll still get stomped.


And honestly, if your entire alliance can't afford a single titan you should probably reconsider your null venture. Titans are becoming accessible to the middle class, and goodness knows even I could buy one if I went and sold everything I owned in game.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#39 - 2014-06-23 23:28:22 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
War Kitten wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
I'm of the radical opinion that jump drives should be done away with aside from maybe black ops bridges to maintain their espionage role.

Titans should be buffed to make them more than a mobile doomsday and JB. And all capitals should have jump drives removed, allowed to use gates, and be forced to spend an hour to get anywhere more than a few jumps. Watch as every alliance's influence shrinks like crazy, conflicts become more regional, gate camps to break supply lines to highsec become more prevalent, and as an overall result local mining and industry for the sake of self sufficiency become a MUST in nullsec because your highsec haulers would die otherwise.

However, in exchange I would ask that most capitals see a bit of a buff in agility. And other little buffs here and there to make their use worth it still. Also since this would the the JF I would ask the JF get repurposed into ship haulers. Make 90% or even 100% of the cargo into an SMA capable of carrying multiple battleships. To keep this balanced it should be less battleships than a normal freighter is capable of carrying unassembled. The same small buffs of EHP and mobility because they're T2 should be applied as well though.

With the max cargo charon capable of 1.2 million and a repackaged size of 50k for any battleship it can carry about 24 of them. From there then I say the new ship carrier have something like 8 or 10 assembled BSes in it at max. Which means about 5 mill m3 SMA.


The game doesn't really need roaming spider-tanked carrier gangs.


Because hot dropped spider tanked gangs are so much better.


"My idea is slightly less bad than existing mechanics" is not a great selling point.


I don't claim the solve the blob, I claim to solve power projection that results in bigger blobs because anyone can bat-phone in anyone in 30 minutes or less.

And yes, admittedly I have no idea how to explain a reduction in technology. Perhaps instead we explain it with an INCREASE in technology by saying that the gates are now capable of shoving capitals in xD

The Drake is a Lie
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2014-06-23 23:52:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Il Feytid
My beef is the teleportation mechanics. It should be a strategic choice using them.