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CSPA, on by default, is a nightmare ...

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Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#1 - 2014-06-22 15:42:52 UTC

The default CSPA is 2.950 ISK.

A new player isn't aware of the CSPA, or doesn't realize he has to deactivate it.


Every single day I find people with their CSPA on
and they either haven't known or forgot to turn it off.


New players start out with 5.000 ISK.



How do you expect them to talk to others,
when they have to waste money to talk to them?


Even assuming that they are running the tutorials and making money,
it's still a significant amount not to be wasted.


The CSPA serves no real function, except annoying people.

It does not prevent spam either. The victim of a spam attack would have to set it to the current maximum
to work as prevention and then it only works against those who have issues affording it continuously.

Considering how easily longer time players can make money, this is no argument.

ISK is no balancing factor here.




I know that I'm bringin up the New Player argument here,
but that's because my age allows me an insight into the new players' perspective.




Thank you for your consideration.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2014-06-22 17:09:24 UTC
Quote:
The CSPA serves no real function, except annoying people.

Back when I was new (in 2009), there was a growing problem. ISK-seller and RMT-service spammers would create new toons and then private convo or mail spam entire systems worth of people. The toons could not be banned quickly enough (CCP does not use automated software, they have GMs investigate each report personally to minimize "false positives") and people were getting angry.

Finally, the DEVs put a CSPA charge on all accounts with the option for it to be disabled. This pretty much killed the convo/mail spam overnight (because it gets REALLY expensive over time and some people put the CSPA even higher than 2,950 ISK).

So that "inconvenience" you are suffering from is actually preventing others from turning your gaming experience into a living hell. Blink


ps: if you do the tutorials you can earn more than 1 million ISK... and you still have local to initiate a conversation... and adding someone as a "blue" contact can allow people to bypass the CSPA charge... or you can set the charge to "zero" and just be done with it.

How did you Veterans start?
Saint Germain
Sekundu
#3 - 2014-06-22 17:48:30 UTC
Maybe it could be off by default, and turning it on could be explained in the tutorial? Then it punishes new players for not doing the tutorial...
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#4 - 2014-06-22 18:06:28 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Quote:
The CSPA serves no real function, except annoying people.

Back when I was new (in 2009), there was a growing problem. ISK-seller and RMT-service spammers would create new toons and then private convo or mail spam entire systems worth of people.
I see the point,
but there things don't happen anymore nowadays.

I remember times when ISK sellers were advertising in chatrooms,
but these times are long gone.


I guess having it OFF by default and teaching new players about it would be the best option,
as Saint Germain (great name, btw) suggests.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2014-06-22 18:16:50 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Christina Project wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Quote:
The CSPA serves no real function, except annoying people.

Back when I was new (in 2009), there was a growing problem. ISK-seller and RMT-service spammers would create new toons and then private convo or mail spam entire systems worth of people.
I see the point,
but there things don't happen anymore nowadays.

I remember times when ISK sellers were advertising in chatrooms,
but these times are long gone.

Which implies that the CSPA charge is still doing its job... yes?

Just because a problem is no longer observed it does not mean the problem no longer exists. It's like a vaccine. If enough people do not take it (or are exempt from taking it) then the problem just comes back.

The few who are *really* annoyed by the CSPA charge (such as yourself) are simply a smaller price to pay compared to the widespread anger and frustration that comes with resurgent spammers. It's basically a cold, hard numbers game. Straight

How did you Veterans start?
Inshallah Eichman
Doomheim
#6 - 2014-06-22 22:11:06 UTC
Christina Project wrote:

The default CSPA is 2.950 ISK.

A new player isn't aware of the CSPA, or doesn't realize he has to deactivate it.


Every single day I find people with their CSPA on
and they either haven't known or forgot to turn it off.


New players start out with 5.000 ISK.



How do you expect them to talk to others,
when they have to waste money to talk to them?


Even assuming that they are running the tutorials and making money,
it's still a significant amount not to be wasted.


The CSPA serves no real function, except annoying people.

It does not prevent spam either. The victim of a spam attack would have to set it to the current maximum
to work as prevention and then it only works against those who have issues affording it continuously.

Considering how easily longer time players can make money, this is no argument.

ISK is no balancing factor here.




I know that I'm bringin up the New Player argument here,
but that's because my age allows me an insight into the new players' perspective.




Thank you for your consideration.


It's almost no money at all even for new players.

Next: Why are you talking to people with this on every day? That may be an issue you ought to consider.

The only person who this price is going to affect is a person who spams every player around. Spammers spam in bulk, you see, so even at a minimal level the charge is effective. I have seen people with huge amounts and maybe they are just saying they don't care to talk to anyone.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#7 - 2014-06-23 00:01:14 UTC
Clearly the only correct solution to this problem is to increase the maximum CSPA charge from 1m to 100m.

I'm actually quite serious.
Kaerakh
Obscure Joke Implied
#8 - 2014-06-23 00:05:30 UTC
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
Clearly the only correct solution to this problem is to increase the maximum CSPA charge from 1m to 100m.

I'm actually quite serious.


Didn't it used to be that way at some point? I can't shake the feeling I've seen an obscenely high CSPA charge in the distant past and just blurted out, "F--- no!" before clicking the no button.

Schrodinger's Hot Dropper

The Fate of Forum Alts

Guaranteed Success
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#9 - 2014-06-23 09:51:54 UTC
Inshallah Eichman wrote:
Next: Why are you talking to people with this on every day? That may be an issue you ought to consider.
Because I talk to people.
That's no issue. The issue is with you, if you think there's an issue with that.


Quote:
The only person who this price is going to affect is a person who spams every player around. Spammers spam in bulk, you see, so even at a minimal level the charge is effective. I have seen people with huge amounts and maybe they are just saying they don't care to talk to anyone.
There is no argument in your words.

Do you have anything substantial to say? Opinions are irrelevant.



tbh, I can't even imagine why anybody would argue for a CSPA,
which simply has no point of existing anymore.

It creates much more hassle than it saves anybody from having.


People just dream up imaginary situations that are not part of reality
and somehow seem to think they have an argument for it to stay,
while all they're argument contains is "It was there before, why remove it".



I wish for people to bring actual arguments, that have a connection to the games reality
and aren't based on opinions, which are irrelevant.


Thank you.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Inshallah Eichman
Doomheim
#10 - 2014-06-23 11:13:12 UTC
Opinions are all this entire board is. Every concept, including you ironic statement, are qualitative in nature. So my opinion since you're too stupid to understand is this -- the system is working perfectly and there is no reason to waste time fixing shift that isn't broken.
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#11 - 2014-06-23 11:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Christina Project
Inshallah Eichman wrote:
Opinions are all this entire board is. Every concept, including you ironic statement, are qualitative in nature. So my opinion since you're too stupid to understand is this -- the system is working perfectly and there is no reason to waste time fixing shift that isn't broken.
That's typical.

Not everything everyone says is an opinion. One can state observations without putting his ego behind it,
stating simply what is observed and not what is thought that's being done.

While I certainly mixed an opinion about the CSPA in my post,
dismissing what's going on doesn't work.

You can simply try for yourself,
create a new character and feel the limitation of the CSPA,
as you want to try to talk to other new players.

These people exist ... these people can't do what they want to do ...
... because the game forces them into not talking with others early on.


But maybe you don't actually speak to anybody,
which would mean you're pretty much in the wrong place here anyway.

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Inshallah Eichman
Doomheim
#12 - 2014-06-23 11:20:49 UTC
The beginning missions will pay several hundred thousand isk. They don't take long at all to do but they are long enough to keep spam down. And the price of the default is so low it only hurts someone who is spamming in large amounts. But I've said that before. Done with this thread.
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#13 - 2014-06-23 11:38:05 UTC
Inshallah Eichman wrote:
The beginning missions will pay several hundred thousand isk. They don't take long at all to do but they are long enough to keep spam down. And the price of the default is so low it only hurts someone who is spamming in large amounts. But I've said that before. Done with this thread.

You're not adressing what I mention at all.

You just don't want it to be changed, for whatever reason you have.

It's clearly visible that you simply do not want this to change,
for your own reasons you don't seem to want to express.


"default is so low" ... and yet, a new player who wants to engage others early
has no way to do so, without running the tutorial missions,
forcing him into doing them.

And then, still, people do not want to spend the cost of the CSPA,
because for them it's a lot of money.

Something you, of course, ignore because you believe you know better,
which is completely irrelevant in the light of the extremely likely possibilities I am mentioning.


If you, instead of trying to simply dominate here ... which doesn't work at all ...
... instead wrote a post with actual content and sense ... then you might actually find a case.


This thread is fine ... but your attitude stinks. :)

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#14 - 2014-06-23 13:45:31 UTC
Opinion isn't irrelevant. The weight of unified player opinion is actually what drives a large amount of the direction the game is being developed in. That, in part, is what the CSM is for. Also, this is what this forum is for. People discuss their ideas and features which are mostly based off their opinions and the counter arguments are almost always based off people's opinions. The facts and statements may be derived from observation but the direction of the arguments are almost always opinion driven.

On to your suggestion, no thanks. I remember what the spam was like. If it were to be turned off by default it wouldn't take the bot/spam runners long to realise they could turn them back on again. No. It was done for a valid reason and the benefits outweigh the costs.

If you must initiate private conversations with people who don't have you set blue you could always have a text file (or even an in game note) with the text explaining about how to turn off CSPA and link their name and dump the text in local so they become educated to turn it off. If they don't, you know they don't want to talk to you.

The group that has most to gain from your suggestion are the spammers. Unless you're an idiot or you are actually an alt for a spammer and trying to engineer the situation where you can start spamming again, I would hope very much that you can see the point in the CSPA.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2014-06-23 13:53:05 UTC
Christina Project wrote:
Inshallah Eichman wrote:
The beginning missions will pay several hundred thousand isk. They don't take long at all to do but they are long enough to keep spam down. And the price of the default is so low it only hurts someone who is spamming in large amounts. But I've said that before. Done with this thread.

You're not adressing what I mention at all.

You just don't want it to be changed, for whatever reason you have.

It's clearly visible that you simply do not want this to change,
for your own reasons you don't seem to want to express.


"default is so low" ... and yet, a new player who wants to engage others early
has no way to do so, without running the tutorial missions,
forcing him into doing them.

And then, still, people do not want to spend the cost of the CSPA,
because for them it's a lot of money.

Something you, of course, ignore because you believe you know better,
which is completely irrelevant in the light of the extremely likely possibilities I am mentioning.


If you, instead of trying to simply dominate here ... which doesn't work at all ...
... instead wrote a post with actual content and sense ... then you might actually find a case.


This thread is fine ... but your attitude stinks. :)


I personally don't really mind it but I'm interested in knowing how you can talk to so many player with their CSPA charges still not at 0 so it has a negative impact on you.
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
#16 - 2014-06-23 14:53:42 UTC
If CSPA is removed, ISK spammers will come back. They are not a one-time occurrence, they are a plague. They don't care for the game or if people have fun, they only want to make money. And if you have played other, unprotected games, you know that they will go for any length to archive their business intention, even if it means destroying the game for good.

If anything, then CCP should add a hint to the chat-invite message that CSPA is on and how to disable it.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#17 - 2014-06-23 15:08:23 UTC
Raw Matters wrote:
If CSPA is removed, ISK spammers will come back. They are not a one-time occurrence, they are a plague. They don't care for the game or if people have fun, they only want to make money. And if you have played other, unprotected games, you know that they will go for any length to archive their business intention, even if it means destroying the game for good.

If anything, then CCP should add a hint to the chat-invite message that CSPA is on and how to disable it.

yeah, this sounds like the best compromise so far. In the same way you get a warning if you try to jump from highsec to lowsec which you can chose to never see again CCP could implement a pop up which told you that you have CSPA turned on, how to modify it and a tickbox for "Never show me this again" or some similar wording. +1 that man!
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#18 - 2014-06-23 16:15:33 UTC
It's hilarious that people assume that,
when CSPA is gone,
suddenly the ISK spammers will come back.

There are barely any ISK spammers visible in locals anymore,
I haven't seen a single one in the last two years myself,
but yet, for some reason, you people still believe they are around en masse.


You people need to realize that it's 2014 already
and that the ISK seller spamming scene has pretty much vanished.


So ... any actual arguments ?

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Christina Project
Screaming Head in a Box.
#19 - 2014-06-23 16:19:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Christina Project
Tchulen wrote:
The group that has most to gain from your suggestion are the spammers. Unless you're an idiot or you are actually an alt for a spammer and trying to engineer the situation where you can start spamming again, I would hope very much that you can see the point in the CSPA.
Maybe it's you who's the idiot.

I'm the person who doesn't come up with imaginary reasons that don't actually apply to current reality anymore,
seeing that there are downsides to the CSPA that actually needs to be addressed,
instead of coming up with things from the past, ignoring the future.

I guess, when you call me an idiot ... you just talk to yourself?


Seriously ... believing that suddenly the spammers will come back because of this is nonsense.
There's not a single actual thought applied to this argument, just some memories from the past.

Most people aren't even able to form a proper opinion,
yet they believe having one is somehow important and valued.



And BESIDES THAT ... the CSPA does NOT prevent anybody from spamming, at all.
All it needs are a few clicks and the cost is irrelevant to any spammer,
because he obviously has enough ISK to spend to make real money.

Most people DON'T actually have a CSPA set high enough that it would matter to them!
It matters to those, though, who don't have money to waste!
And there are a lot of them, even if you wrongly believe otherwise.


Arguments ... people. Not just drivel about the past, without actual thought behind it!

[i]"Don't look into another human's bowl to see how much he has ... ... look into his bowl to see if he has enough !" - Sol[/i]
Antillie Sa'Kan
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-06-23 16:29:19 UTC
Christina Project wrote:
It's hilarious that people assume that,
when CSPA is gone,
suddenly the ISK spammers will come back.

There are barely any ISK spammers visible in locals anymore,
I haven't seen a single one in the last two years myself,
but yet, for some reason, you people still believe they are around en masse.


You people need to realize that it's 2014 already
and that the ISK seller spamming scene has pretty much vanished.


So ... any actual arguments ?

It's hilarious that you assume they won't come back. Have you ever played any other MMOs at all?
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